Mesa Triple Rectifier/Band Issue Questions

[FenderNashville]

Howdy folks.

I play in a 90s rock cover band in which one of the guitarists has a 150W Mesa Triple Rectifier head. He has it going through a Mesa 4x12 cabinet. He JUST bought this amp and cab, and he's been playing for roughly two years or so.

I've tried to let him know that with tube amps, you want as little watts as possible. I'm finding almost NO reason to go above 30 watts with any recommendation for any guitarist (unless you play Jaz or want clean headroom). Even if you play at a large venue, it will be miked anyways, so getting a huge wattage tube setup is just ridiculous.

At practices, I just use my Classic 30 (1x12). I use my Orange TH-30 Head/2x12 Cab in my bedroom because I can get it to 7 watts for low volume goldness. I use use either of these setups for live performances depending on the venue, and they are both plenty loud.

There seems to be problems with his volumes at practices. At the end of practice, we finally got him to turn it down enough to where I can actually hear my leads come through.

Anyhow, point being, I know little about Mesa Rectifiers, other than I don't care for the sound. Is the Triple Rectifier really 150watts, comparable to any other 150 watt tube amp? I know he likes death metal, so I'm assuming that one of the bands that he listens to uses these amps which is the reason for his fondness. I've also begun discussions that when he plays rhythm, he shouldn't have the gain cranked, and should work more dynamically with his playing/sound...

Am I right for questioning this type of thing?

[Sandia Man]

He doesn't seem to know how to play in a band yet. Teach him what you can and hope he learns
If you can't hear your leads, he sure can't. It's pointless playing with others if you don't listen to them

[Joe-Bob]

If he's only "been playing for roughly two years or so", then he's not ready to be in a band anyway.

That said, I know for certain that those amps have volume knobs. If he can't be convinced to use it, then he's toast. You need to make sure he knows it, too.

[FenderNashville]

I tried to tell him that a lower wattage Mesa offering will sound better at the volumes that we play (practice studios, small clubs, etc) rather then inching (which he still needs to do) the volume knob on a 150 watt amp.

He had a dual rectifier (100watts) before the triple rectifier. I told him to take half of the tubes out, and he did, and it turned into 50 watts. He said that he didn't notice a difference in the quality of the sound. Just last week, he brought in the 150 watt head to replace the dual rectifier (50 watts from 100 watts), and I about had a heart attack.

Are the Mesa rectifier amps REALLY 100/150 watts, the same power as an all-tube 100/150 watt amp? If so, that's completely ridiculous on every level. Even a 4x12 cab is way too much. I tried to tell him to stick with a 1x12, or a 2x12 at the most...

He uses a boss multi-effects board. I just had the discussion that for most of our music, he shouldn't be using any effects. Didn't get much of a response on that one...

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. K.I.S.S.

[Joe-Bob]

Sounds to me like you need to be rid of him.

[trev333]

my friends have a metal/rock type band in the city.. one of their guitarists has a triple rec.... 14 tubes in it, I think?... a monster...

they practice in a small sound room out back of a house ..connected to the shed made from cold room panels.. with air con....
2 guitars, bass, drums.. playing through their stage rigs...LOUD..

. the only place to sit I could reach out and grab a headstock or two...... fridge on one side.. sound desk to the other side...along the "back" wall.. squeezy...

their solution to "arguing over volumes"... is to ALWAYS have a sound guy at a mix desk at EVERY practice... all mixing is done by him... the guys just go as hard as they want...they can hear each other...
the 5th guy, the mixer gets the volumes/blend right... just like he does at shows... and adds effects sometimes... he's the 5th(extra) member of the band.. get one!...

you can close your eyes and hear everyone like a CD at volume, clear and balanced.... in a room you couldn't swing a cat.... without ringing in the ears when you go outside for a break....
I was amazed really.... and saw the benefit straight away to have a good sound guy at the desk to manage sound..... how ever simple that desk is.....

[sax4blues]

I don't know how to get anybody to turn down. But I do know you can usually arrange amp positions without upsetting anybody.

Next practice make sure that his amp is pointing at him and away from everyone else. Then make sure your combo is up on a stand or table or chair, whatever. Again make sure your amp is pointing at you and especially not at him.

If all works well he will not be able to hear you. Now you may be on the first step to getting him to adjust. If not at least you will be able to hear yourself better.

[BiggerJohn]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Sounds to me like you need to be rid of him.

+1. The guy does not know how to play in a band. Get rid of him and the problem is gone.

I don't care for that mesa sound either.

[Glen 1981]

He's lucky to have had two such expensive amps for somebody who has only been playing for two years!

I have a similar setup to you in that I have a Classic 30 and an orange Dual Terror, my band plays primarily rock covers and I can hear myself fine over the other guitar player who is playing a marshall (similar output to the Mesa). All amps have volume controls just ask him to turn down a bit.

Incidentally, and I'm sure others will disagree with me, I think the notion that the less watts you have available, on a valve amp, the better is a bit naive - there's more to it than that.

[Nick Fanis]

I have done many concerts w/ Triple Rectifiers (for some crazy reason they are std backline in Greece) and they sound GREAT on low volumes (I use the clean ch. which is more than decent,in fact it is great) and they have a switch that turns them down to 50 watts.

It is not a fault of the amp if the player does not know how to play,trust me.

[Green Lantern]

In some ways he is wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make you right on all of these points.

I've tried to let him know that with tube amps, you want as little watts as possible. I'm finding almost NO reason to go above 30 watts with any recommendation for any guitarist (unless you play Jaz or want clean headroom).

It's best not to think in absolutes. Maybe you want as little watts as possible, but you're not everyone. Don't assume that your needs are every other guitar player's needs. Personally, I do not want as little watts as possible. This does not mean I'm always super duper loud.

The Triple Rectifier is a popular high gain amp. It's not just about the volume it can push, but also about the sound it gives off. Just because it has the capability of being loud doesn't mean it isn't usable. Your friend just doesn't know what he's doing. Too often, I see people blaming the incompetence of another musician, or their own shortcomings, on the gear they're using. The person in question doesn't need a new amp, he just needs to learn how to play the one he has at volumes that compliment the other players.

My feelings about the situation are this:
In a band, I do not play with people who consistently make things sound worse. Being overbearingly loud is the sign of a true amateur. As for what to do depends on how serious you are about your band and your relationship with this individual. My band, for me, is not just a pastime, it's a very serious project, and as such, I've thrown out my best friend, because he wasn't good enough, not sharp enough, not dedicated enough, and he was irresponsible and lazy.

Sure, he wanted all the coolness and perks of being in a successful band, but he didn't want to put in enough work for it. I wasn't going to allow someone like that to latch onto me and ride on my coattails, and then have to pay him. Forget that. My friend was on the verge of tears when I gave him the boot, which was back in... mid May of 2011. I haven't seen or spoken to him since.

So yeah, I'd personally be done with the guitarist you're playing with, but like I said, what to do depends on some factors.

[FenderNashville]

Originally Posted by Green Lantern

In some ways he is wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make you right on all of these points.

It's best not to think in absolutes. Maybe you want as little watts as possible, but you're not everyone. Don't assume that your needs are every other guitar player's needs. Personally, I do not want as little watts as possible. This does not mean I'm always super duper loud.

You can call me wrong all you want. But you need to back up your assertions. Why would a guitarist want an insanely high wattage amp if it isn't for volume (which I've already explained that amps are miked in large venues. Look at Woodstock in '69) or if it isn't for the clean headroom? Please fill me in, because I seem to know nothing about tube amps. If I thought like what you're assuming, then I'd force everyone to play analogue using only Orange, and only use a Les Paul or a Telecaster and play Led Zeppelin. I'm only talking about wattage here. Not trying to challenge you, but just trying to gain more information about why I'm wrong...

Originally Posted by Nick Fanis

I have done many concerts w/ Triple Rectifiers (for some crazy reason they are std backline in Greece) and they sound GREAT on low volumes (I use the clean ch. which is more than decent,in fact it is great) and they have a switch that turns them down to 50 watts.

This is what I've been looking for. Thanks a bunch; I'll let him know.

Originally Posted by Glen 1981

Incidentally, and I'm sure others will disagree with me, I think the notion that the less watts you have available, on a valve amp, the better is a bit naive - there's more to it than that.

There is more to it (as I've explained above), but a guitarist that has been playing for two years that runs out and buys the image of whatever his favorite death metal band uses, without even considering the power output and the playability of what he's buying, is the holy grail of being naive. I've jammed with guitarists who simply bring over a Super Champ XD hybrid amp and get by just fine. Again, why does someone need a 150 watt tube amp with a 4x12 cab for practices or small venues that doesn't care about clean headroom? Knowing that he can switch it down to 50 watts makes all the difference in the world. He should be able to control his volume a little easier knowing that...

The whole reason you have tubes is to drive them. That's a fact.

I've pretty much decided to think of this band as "simple" alternative rock covers. It is in no way satisfying my musical outlet. There is no way that I would play classic rock with this guy, who can't play dynamically yet or hasn't learned to be minimalistic with his playing yet. If I had a chance to leave this band to play classic rock music, I would do so in a heartbeat. Anyhow, he does respond well to advice, so I don't think he needs to be booted or anything like that. He just needs to be confronted about this. Then again, when I use to offer him advice, he would constantly question it. You know, I've only been playing daily for 18 years.

I'm VERY picky when it comes to sound, and I've just decided to not even care about the quality of his sound or anything. The more I do, the more I care and get upset. I just play with them to express music. With that said, when my lead work cannot be heard from a central location, then I get uber pissed.

[Green Lantern]

You can call me wrong all you want. But you need to back up your assertions. Why would a guitarist want an insanely high wattage amp if it isn't for volume (which I've already explained that amps are miked in large venues. Look at Woodstock in '69) or if it isn't for the clean headroom? Please fill me in, because I seem to know nothing about tube amps.

Simple. Perhaps the hypothetical guitarist likes the sound of the hypothetical amp, wattage be damned. Fun little story. Carl Verheyan invited Joe Bonamassa to record a track on Carl's album, Trading 8's. Joe goes down to the studio and asks Carl if he's got any Marshalls. Carl shows him a 50 watt head. Seeing that, Joe asks if he's got any 100 watt heads. Recording with 100 watt amps apparently can be done. There's more to amps than wattage, and anyone who is sharp enough can easily use a high wattage amp without blowing doors down.

http://www.vintageguitar.com/3877/carl-verheyen-2/

The whole reason you have tubes is to drive them. That's a fact.

: /

I've pretty much decided to think of this band as "simple" alternative rock covers. It is in no way satisfying my musical outlet. There is no way that I would play classic rock with this guy, who can't play dynamically

Um... 90s alternative rock is well known for its soft/hard dynamics. Really popular examples:

[teleamp]

The band has a db meter, right? Use it, live by it. If a member of the band won't live by the rules send him down the road. Way too many "guitarists" around to deal with drama.

[Telesavalis]

Show him how to use the mstr vol knob.
If he can't get it under control then show him the door.

[homesick345]

[QUOTE="FenderNashville"]Howdy folks.

I play in a 90s rock cover band in which one of the guitarists has a 150W Mesa Triple Rectifier head. He has it going through a Mesa 4x12 cabinet. He JUST bought this amp and cab, and he's been playing for roughly two years or so.

I've tried to let him know that with tube amps, you want as little watts as possible. I'm finding almost NO reason to go above 30 watts with any recommendation for any guitarist (unless you play Jaz or want clean headroom). Even if you play at a large venue, it will be miked anyways, so getting a huge wattage tube setup is just ridiculous.

At practices, I just use my Classic 30 (1x12). I use my Orange TH-30 Head/2x12 Cab in my bedroom because I can get it to 7 watts for low volume goldness. I use use either of these setups for live performances depending on the venue, and they are both plenty loud.

There seems to be problems with his volumes at practices. At the end of practice, we finally got him to turn it down enough to where I can actually hear my leads come through.

Anyhow, point being, I know little about Mesa Rectifiers, other than I don't care for the sound. Is the Triple Rectifier really 150watts, comparable to any other 150 watt tube amp? I know he likes death metal, so I'm assuming that one of the bands that he listens to uses these amps which is the reason for his fondness. I've also begun discussions that when he plays rhythm, he shouldn't have the gain cranked, and should work more dynamically with his playing/sound...

Am I right for questioning this type of thing?[/QUOTE

Based on his extreme bad taste in amps and tones, get yourself another guitarist, or better, cover all the bases. Life is too short to put up with that ****

[FenderNashville]

His Triple Rectifier is older, and doesn't have the 50 watt switch on the back. Looks like he may be yanking some tubes.

[Sandia Man]

I'm VERY picky when it comes to sound, and I've just decided to not even care about the quality of his sound or anything. The more I do, the more I care and get upset.

This isn't healthy. If you dislike what is going on enough to be apathetic about his contribution to the sound, it's on you to make him change his ways fast or replace him

That 50 watt switch sounds like a great place to start. He's still got to govern his knobs, but lowering his potential output will offer him less to control, and therefore more control over what he has

[Sandia Man]

His Triple Rectifier is older, and doesn't have the 50 watt switch on the back

Rats

[mrothe]

If somebody in the band has a camcorder or something like a Zoom H2, try recording your practice. It may not sound like a perfectly mixed/mastered live CD, but it gives a really good idea as far as the overall band mix goes.

If this guy is willing to review the video/audio with you, he may be willing to make adjustments in order to blend in better. If not, it may be time to move on. With two guitars it's all about how they sound together.

Sometimes I pick tones I'm not crazy about individually, but I know that it will work great with what the other guitarist in my band is doing and it helps that both of us are in line volume wise. We work together a lot to find that common ground so the end product is good. I feel very fortunate to have a working relationship like that and I know it's not always the norm, but it would help.

IMHO, it's not about his amp, it's his mindset and willingness to be a team player. I'm playing a 15watt SCXD thru a 1x12 cab and our bass player has an Ampeg 1600 watt SVT4 w/ the 8x10 cab...it's a monster, but he's always at an appropriate level with good tone. Equipment aside, it just seems to work when everyone's on board volume wise and to not work when everyone isn't.