Tube Amps and Luggage Trollies - Not a Great Idea

Robin Nahum · April 12th, 2005, 11:48 AM

I have been happily wheeling my SFDR or VR to music lessons in the city on a luggage trolley - walking to the station, taking the train, walking at the other end.

When I mentioned this to my amp tech, he advised that this is not a good idea. Tubes are delicate and don't like being bumped. Among other things, t.hey can change position in the socket and this can change the bias.

Just thought I'd pass this on.

TT100 · April 12th, 2005, 11:56 AM

If you can pad if with foam it would help. I agree it's a pretty rough ride on a luggage dolly and sidewalk cracks. I have a dolly I made up for my Pro Reverb just to scoot it around the garage or living room. Overly cautious or not, I wouldn't think of even running it down the driveway to the car for fear of the tubes.

TT100

Hucklebilly · April 12th, 2005, 12:49 PM

I have casters on my Twin and while I try to avoid unecessary shocks, I roll it around on some pretty uneven surfaces. It gets loaded into the back of my car, where it clunks around sometimes despite my best efforts. And it always seems to fire up without a hitch. It's had the same set of tubes for the last 7 years. I don't recommend treating your amp this way, but I have to say, Fender amps are pretty tough, at least in my experience.

Paul in Colorado · April 12th, 2005, 12:58 PM

If you can't roll it around on a dolly, then it's too fragile to gig with. Amps are put in road cases and thrown into trucks and bounced down the Interstates of America and work every night. Why wouldn't an amp take a few bumps down the sidewalk? I think your tech is daft.

Stan Martin · April 12th, 2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul in Colorado

If you can't roll it around on a dolly, then it's too fragile to gig with. Amps are put in road cases and thrown into trucks and bounced down the Interstates of America and work every night. Why wouldn't an amp take a few bumps down the sidewalk? I think your tech is daft.

major bumps can cause the parts inside the tube to break or create stress fractures. Not a good situation.That's why you should wait 10 minutes or so to move your amp after it has been on.

Deacon Blues · April 12th, 2005, 04:34 PM

Remove the tubes before you transport your amp. I always do this before shipping an amp, as I'm sure most of you do. I've never considered this for transporting the amp to and from a gig/jam, but I certainly will now.

Robin Nahum · April 12th, 2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul in Colorado

If you can't roll it around on a dolly, then it's too fragile to gig with. Amps are put in road cases and thrown into trucks and bounced down the Interstates of America and work every night. Why wouldn't an amp take a few bumps down the sidewalk? I think your tech is daft.

Paul, I think the shocks experienced on a luggage trolley bumping on the sidewalk are more "spiky" than those encountered in the other places you describe. Rolling around in a venue with smooth floors is not comparable and I don't know that amps are "thrown into trucks". From my experience they are usually rolled on in padded roadcases, and the trucks have suspension which cushions the ride as they bounce down the Interstates of America (and indeed other parts of the world).

jhundt · April 13th, 2005, 04:05 AM

Long before there were padded flight cases and air-cushion suspension semi-trucks there were Fender amps. You threw them in the back of a pickup and drove to the gig. Did anything ever break? Sure, but not much. Those things are a lot tougher than some people seem to think. I wouldn't worry so much. Just play and enjoy.

Also, I have never heard that changing the position of a tube in it's socket will alter the bias.

Ben Harmless · April 13th, 2005, 10:13 AM

Yep. It'll alter the bias if the bumps somehow switch the sockets that the tubes are plugged into. This can lead to mismatched pairs, and other problems. Once, after a bumpy car ride, I discovered that one of my EL34s was in a preamp socket! :)

Seriously, bumps are bad, but that tech is more than a little suspect. Stick some cushoning foam or something under your amp on the dolly, and be careful over those sidewalk cracks, and you'll be fine.

rdchapman · April 13th, 2005, 12:02 PM

Get a small Solid state amp for that stuff. Does the job and it's cheap and light.
r

WrapAround · April 13th, 2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Nahum

I have been happily wheeling my SFDR or VR to music lessons in the city on a luggage trolley - walking to the station, taking the train, walking at the other end.

When I mentioned this to my amp tech, he advised that this is not a good idea. Tubes are delicate and don't like being bumped. Among other things, t.hey can change position in the socket and this can change the bias.

Just thought I'd pass this on.

huh? this is just nonsense. i've never found tubes to be so "delicate" and i always put my amps in my car trunk/boot (right?:) ) to gigs. there are enough bumps on the road. when i had a pickup truck my amp went in the bed, too. and all those environments can offer up some "spikey" dumps. i do agree that some cushioning certainly wouldn't hurt. but beyond that, i've always found tube amps to be pretty tough. i really don't think you have anything to worry about.

1612112 · April 13th, 2005, 12:52 PM

If your amp is point to point, turret or eyelet construction and the tubes are not mounted directly to the board it has a far greater chance of surviving harsh treatment. However if it's hot after a gig best let it cool before even taking it outdoors... conversely if it's very cold from being in the trunk/boot and you bring it into a steamy club, best let it warm up before powering up to get the condensation off.

On the other hand, I once dropped a Marshall Silver Jubilee head down a flight of (at least ten) steps loading in for a gig in Bournmouth and it was fine... it was pcb and not the best made Marshall amp... must have been my lucky day.

mark norwine · April 13th, 2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Among other things, t.hey can change position in the socket and this can change the bias.

you, sir, need a new amp tech. yes, really...

halouis · April 13th, 2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1612112

If your amp is point to point, turret or eyelet construction and the tubes are not mounted directly to the board it has a far greater chance of surviving harsh treatment. However if it's hot after a gig best let it cool before even taking it outdoors... conversely if it's very cold from being in the trunk/boot and you bring it into a steamy club, best let it warm up before powering up to get the condensation off.

On the other hand, I once dropped a Marshall Silver Jubilee head down a flight of (at least ten) steps loading in for a gig in Bournmouth and it was fine... it was pcb and not the best made Marshall amp... must have been my lucky day.

Yeah me too. My JMP 2204 Marshall head fell face down off a 4x12 mid-song, mid-gig and didn;t even hiccup. PCB circuit, but no tubes, pots or jacks mounted to it. rather mounted to chassis (better). THen it got dropped by another band memeber when loading out one drunken night from a club while on the road. Again. the amp had no problems playing the next night. THat Said, i did eventually get myself a nice roadcase for it. Figured it woulrd give it better longevity. it is 25 yrs old. want it to live another 25.

But I too have toted my amps in trailers, back of my pickup truck and never had a problem. They're tough.

5965 · April 13th, 2005, 02:55 PM

Tubes and amps in general don't like shock loads, abrupt temperature changes, surges, a number of other things and various combinations thereof. The fact that some people have been fortunate to have incidents and escaped damage is good to hear, but it says nothing about the next time. The stuff is pretty rugged, but it is not bulletproof.

And if you're gigging, it's a good idea to carry spares.

Robin, thanks for the post and for trying help others.

Paul in Colorado · April 14th, 2005, 01:08 AM

I've been abusing my gear for 30 years. I still say your tech is being over protective. Backs of pick ups, U-Haul trailers, rental trucks... My old Fenders are still ticking. The only on stage failure I've ever had was due to a 35 year old Mullard rectifier tube finally giving up the ghost and I think that was because it got wacked with the amp stand I was using.

Robin Nahum · April 14th, 2005, 02:40 AM

The conversation came about because my SFDR started to make horrible noises after I had had it a few weeks and had been taking it to classes. It turned out to be a power tube problem - but this might have happened anyway - the 6V6s installed by the previous owner looked to be somewhat of an unknown quantity and it was a good opportunity to drop in the JJs.

While the DR was being fixed, I took the VR to class and one night, one of the power tubes (Sovtek 6L6 WXTs) began to glow alarmingly and the pair needed to be replaced. Once again, it may have been that time was up.

The tech warned about the trolley based on what he has seen over the years - and he is very experienced and well regarded and not precious in any sense - quite the opposite in fact. Maybe Sydney footpaths are bumpier. I shall take his advice and that of Mr Chapman and take my small SS busking amp to these classes.

Thanks all for your input.

halouis · April 14th, 2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Nahum

The conversation came about because my SFDR started to make horrible noises after I had had it a few weeks and had been taking it to classes. It turned out to be a power tube problem - but this might have happened anyway - the 6V6s installed by the previous owner looked to be somewhat of an unknown quantity and it was a good opportunity to drop in the JJs.

While the DR was being fixed, I took the VR to class and one night, one of the power tubes (Sovtek 6L6 WXTs) began to glow alarmingly and the pair needed to be replaced. Once again, it may have been that time was up.

The tech warned about the trolley based on what he has seen over the years - and he is very experienced and well regarded and not precious in any sense - quite the opposite in fact. Maybe Sydney footpaths are bumpier. I shall take his advice and that of Mr Chapman and take my small SS busking amp to these classes.

Thanks all for your input.

Robin. look for one of those little Polytone SS amps. pretty cool for Jazz and I think they're built super solid. I can't play Jazz, but I remember i took a Jazz improv class my last year at university for fun and they had a little polytone and it was pretty cool sounding i thought.

rkwatkins · April 14th, 2005, 07:49 PM

Robin,
I live in New York City and have been dragging various amps, 1954 Danelectro Maestro, Kendrick 2210, 1964 Princeton and a Carlson Turbo Pup all around the city, as well as throwing them in the back of NYC taxi cabs. So far nothing bad has happened. I've probably jinxed it now. I think your amps will survive alright.
good tone to all,
RK

April 12th, 2005, 11:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
Robin Nahum Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 57 Posts: 1,732 13 Photos	Tube Amps and Luggage Trollies - Not a Great Idea I have been happily wheeling my SFDR or VR to music lessons in the city on a luggage trolley - walking to the station, taking the train, walking at the other end. When I mentioned this to my amp tech, he advised that this is not a good idea. Tubes are delicate and don't like being bumped. Among other things, t.hey can change position in the socket and this can change the bias. Just thought I'd pass this on. __________________ RN

April 12th, 2005, 04:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
Deacon Blues Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northern New Mexico Posts: 498	Simple Solution Remove the tubes before you transport your amp. I always do this before shipping an amp, as I'm sure most of you do. I've never considered this for transporting the amp to and from a gig/jam, but I certainly will now. __________________ This is the age of the expanding man.

April 13th, 2005, 04:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
jhundt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Age: 54 Posts: 3,127 9 Photos	Come on, guys Long before there were padded flight cases and air-cushion suspension semi-trucks there were Fender amps. You threw them in the back of a pickup and drove to the gig. Did anything ever break? Sure, but not much. Those things are a lot tougher than some people seem to think. I wouldn't worry so much. Just play and enjoy. Also, I have never heard that changing the position of a tube in it's socket will alter the bias.

April 13th, 2005, 10:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ben Harmless Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany, NY US of A Posts: 3,374 12 Photos	Yep. It'll alter the bias if the bumps somehow switch the sockets that the tubes are plugged into. This can lead to mismatched pairs, and other problems. Once, after a bumpy car ride, I discovered that one of my EL34s was in a preamp socket! :) Seriously, bumps are bad, but that tech is more than a little suspect. Stick some cushoning foam or something under your amp on the dolly, and be careful over those sidewalk cracks, and you'll be fine. __________________ "I think I'll go for the life of sin, followed by the last-minute, presto-change-o, deathbed repentance." - B. Simpson

April 13th, 2005, 12:52 PM	#12 (permalink)
1612112 Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 229	Dropped my Marshall... I went all hot and cold... If your amp is point to point, turret or eyelet construction and the tubes are not mounted directly to the board it has a far greater chance of surviving harsh treatment. However if it's hot after a gig best let it cool before even taking it outdoors... conversely if it's very cold from being in the trunk/boot and you bring it into a steamy club, best let it warm up before powering up to get the condensation off. On the other hand, I once dropped a Marshall Silver Jubilee head down a flight of (at least ten) steps loading in for a gig in Bournmouth and it was fine... it was pcb and not the best made Marshall amp... must have been my lucky day.

April 12th, 2005, 11:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
TT100 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 214	If you can pad if with foam it would help. I agree it's a pretty rough ride on a luggage dolly and sidewalk cracks. I have a dolly I made up for my Pro Reverb just to scoot it around the garage or living room. Overly cautious or not, I wouldn't think of even running it down the driveway to the car for fear of the tubes. TT100

April 12th, 2005, 12:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hucklebilly Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 821 2 Photos	I have casters on my Twin and while I try to avoid unecessary shocks, I roll it around on some pretty uneven surfaces. It gets loaded into the back of my car, where it clunks around sometimes despite my best efforts. And it always seems to fire up without a hitch. It's had the same set of tubes for the last 7 years. I don't recommend treating your amp this way, but I have to say, Fender amps are pretty tough, at least in my experience.

April 12th, 2005, 12:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 56 Posts: 4,446 3 Photos	If you can't roll it around on a dolly, then it's too fragile to gig with. Amps are put in road cases and thrown into trucks and bounced down the Interstates of America and work every night. Why wouldn't an amp take a few bumps down the sidewalk? I think your tech is daft.

April 13th, 2005, 12:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
rdchapman Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Saratoga, NY Age: 55 Posts: 418	Get a small Solid state amp for that stuff. Does the job and it's cheap and light. r

April 13th, 2005, 02:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
5965 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 738	Tubes and amps in general don't like shock loads, abrupt temperature changes, surges, a number of other things and various combinations thereof. The fact that some people have been fortunate to have incidents and escaped damage is good to hear, but it says nothing about the next time. The stuff is pretty rugged, but it is not bulletproof. And if you're gigging, it's a good idea to carry spares. Robin, thanks for the post and for trying help others.

April 14th, 2005, 01:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 56 Posts: 4,446 3 Photos	I've been abusing my gear for 30 years. I still say your tech is being over protective. Backs of pick ups, U-Haul trailers, rental trucks... My old Fenders are still ticking. The only on stage failure I've ever had was due to a 35 year old Mullard rectifier tube finally giving up the ghost and I think that was because it got wacked with the amp stand I was using.

April 14th, 2005, 02:40 AM	#17 (permalink)
Robin Nahum Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 57 Posts: 1,732 13 Photos	Hmmm... I think some of you are being a bit harsh The conversation came about because my SFDR started to make horrible noises after I had had it a few weeks and had been taking it to classes. It turned out to be a power tube problem - but this might have happened anyway - the 6V6s installed by the previous owner looked to be somewhat of an unknown quantity and it was a good opportunity to drop in the JJs. While the DR was being fixed, I took the VR to class and one night, one of the power tubes (Sovtek 6L6 WXTs) began to glow alarmingly and the pair needed to be replaced. Once again, it may have been that time was up. The tech warned about the trolley based on what he has seen over the years - and he is very experienced and well regarded and not precious in any sense - quite the opposite in fact. Maybe Sydney footpaths are bumpier. I shall take his advice and that of Mr Chapman and take my small SS busking amp to these classes. Thanks all for your input. __________________ RN

April 14th, 2005, 07:49 PM	#19 (permalink)
rkwatkins TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 52	Robin, I live in New York City and have been dragging various amps, 1954 Danelectro Maestro, Kendrick 2210, 1964 Princeton and a Carlson Turbo Pup all around the city, as well as throwing them in the back of NYC taxi cabs. So far nothing bad has happened. I've probably jinxed it now. I think your amps will survive alright. good tone to all, RK