Boosting an overdriven amp

[NobleSteed]

When you are using amp overdrive is there any way to boost overall volume for solos? Using boost pedals seems to just add more distortion, which makes sense. But I was wondering how all of you that use amp overdrive get more volume for leads. I'm open to all suggestions.

[CyanideJunkie]

If your amp has an FX loop, just put your booster pedal in it and you should be fine. Otherwise, I suppose the only way to do what you're asking is to work the guitar's volume knob.

[Stewart Ward]

Originally Posted by NobleSteed

When you are using amp overdrive is there any way to boost overall volume for solos? Using boost pedals seems to just add more distortion, which makes sense. But I was wondering how all of you that use amp overdrive get more volume for leads. I'm open to all suggestions.

Buy a MORLEY Volume pedal and put it in the FX Loop. You can then wail on full distortion under a vocal line and up the VOL for your solo.

Simplz!

[StephaninMelb]

You could also use an external rackmount pre-amp with a switching pedal or a pedal pre-amp. I use that technique with bass and it works well.

3-channel preamp pedal with separate volume controls

Tubeman MKII
Tube Guitar Preamp & Recording Station with Integrated RedBox®

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=11

Tubeman® MK II is the professional all-tube tone dynamo to go! It offers three separately adjustable channels, each accessible directly via footswitches, and a 3-band EQ section. We tweaked the third channel specifically for lead sounds and added a unique Voicing knob. This hip feature lets you shape tonal characteristics to dial in the trademark sound of your favorite amp. And as if that wasn’t enough, we’ve also included our acclaimed Red Box® speaker simulation to turn Tubeman into the perfect tube-driven guitar recording station!

Technical Data
Channels Clean, Crunch, Lead
Preamp 1x 12AX7
Switching Functions Channel 1, Channel 2, Channel 3
Special Features Red Box out
Bypass no
Dimensions 220x 215 x 80 mm
Weight 2,2 kg/4,9 lbs

Here is another type of booster pedal:

BigShot™ PB1 class-A power booster
order # R800 7220
Suggested retail: $180 USD
http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-pb1.htm

• Fully variable class-A power booster for solos
• Buffer drives multiple pedals and long cables
• Drag™ control load correction for natural tone
• Ultra linear performance for natural boost
• Compact and easy to use – great for pedalboards

The Radial BigShot PB1 is a combination power booster and buffer designed to provide exceptional sonic performance for pedalboard users in a compact and simple package. It provides 15dB of boost, accessed using a guitar pick via a rear-mounted recessed control that is protected from foot stomp damage.
Unlike class-B preamps found in most pedals that color the tone and give buffers a bad name, the BigShot PB1 features 100% discreet class-A circuit topology for the utmost in sound quality. Class-A circuits are preferred due to reduced zero cross distortion, improved phase response and the resulting smooth Bessel curve of evenly cascading harmonics. This is augmented with Drag™ control, a variable load correction circuit that lets you dial in the perfect impedance to match the original tone and feel of your guitar and amp combination.

With the PB1, noise is reduced while performance is augmented. Long cable runs are finally possible. And when you hit the boost, you get smooth clean control like you never though possible. The BigShot PB1 is likely the finest guitar power booster ever made.

[octatonic]

Working the volume knob only works with mild overdrive.
If the OP is using a high gain amp then there won't be much level change form the guitar volume knob- it will just clean up.

A boost of some description in the loop is the only way if the primary distortion generation is the amp head.

He chould try using a pedal EQ in the loop as well- set it for a midrange boost (an inverse V) and it will really cut through.
I did this for years- these days I use a 3 channel amp though as it gives me more tonal flexibility.

[Justinvs]

I have one OD pedal, a Dano Wasabi, that has a built in boost switch. Kick it and it boosts your signal 10 dcb. But, I've also ran two OD pedals, one set for dirt which stays on, and another set clean that I kick in just for volume. Not a perfect system, but it works.

Justin

[greggorypeccary]

If the amp is maxed out there's no way to get more volume no matter what you do.

[Riffraff12571]

Originally Posted by greggorypeccary

If the amp is maxed out there's no way to get more volume no matter what you do.

He's right. When you are out of headroom a boost will not work. When you've reached that point the answer is volume cut. Use an attenuator with foot switchable bypass and attenuate a touch for rhythm then stomp the bypass for leads. This one is $115 for the attenuator with a $25 adder for the footswitchable bypass option added. Works like a charm.



If you have an EQ with a volume slider and a footswitch on it you could try setting it flat and put it in your loop. That would more or less do the same thing.

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by greggorypeccary

If the amp is maxed out there's no way to get more volume no matter what you do.

I'm a little confused. He didn't say he was playing a dimed amp, only an overdriven one. Most amps should start to overdrive not far above 5 or 6 on the volume knob. Unless you're playing through a Tweed or something similar, in which case I agree with you, most amps should have plenty of loud left even after the amp starts to distort, especially if it has a Master volume.

[Stewart Ward]

Originally Posted by Justinvs

I'm a little confused. He didn't say he was playing a dimed amp, only an overdriven one. Most amps should start to overdrive not far above 5 or 6 on the volume knob. Unless you're playing through a Tweed or something similar, in which case I agree with you, most amps should have plenty of loud left even after the amp starts to distort, especially if it has a Master volume.

Well, you have to assume that the amp, whilst being used at reasonable volume, will occasionally run out of power or 'headroom'. So adding a 'booster' will only cause the amp to distort in the power amp earlier. If that happens, then the volume will not appear to increase by very much. And what about the time the player may need a clean output boost?

So you really have to adjust your thinking from 'boosting' solos to 'attenuating' rhythm parts! Thereby, leaving 'power reserve' for when you need a volume lift for the solos. It makes much more sense, IMO.

If you still find that you do not have enough power, then you need to think about a bigger amp! Or admit to yourself that you are one hell of a loud player! ;-)

I used to make a product called 'SoloBooster' which did exaclty what I have explained above. It 'attenuated' the signal for background playing. That is really the only answer to OPs problem. They are no longer in production, but there are some similar products available, I'm sure.

[Riffraff12571]

NobleSteed,

What amp are you using, how do you have it set and what is your signal chain?

[Stewart Ward]

Originally Posted by StephaninMelb

You could also use an external rackmount pre-amp with a switching pedal or a pedal pre-amp. I use that technique with bass and it works well.

3-channel preamp pedal with separate volume controls

Tubeman MKII
Tube Guitar Preamp & Recording Station with Integrated RedBox®

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=11

Tubeman® MK II is the professional all-tube tone dynamo to go! It offers three separately adjustable channels, each accessible directly via footswitches, and a 3-band EQ section. We tweaked the third channel specifically for lead sounds and added a unique Voicing knob. This hip feature lets you shape tonal characteristics to dial in the trademark sound of your favorite amp. And as if that wasn’t enough, we’ve also included our acclaimed Red Box® speaker simulation to turn Tubeman into the perfect tube-driven guitar recording station!

Technical Data
Channels Clean, Crunch, Lead
Preamp 1x 12AX7
Switching Functions Channel 1, Channel 2, Channel 3
Special Features Red Box out
Bypass no
Dimensions 220x 215 x 80 mm
Weight 2,2 kg/4,9 lbs

Here is another type of booster pedal:

BigShot™ PB1 class-A power booster
order # R800 7220
Suggested retail: $180 USD
http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-pb1.htm

• Fully variable class-A power booster for solos
• Buffer drives multiple pedals and long cables
• Drag™ control load correction for natural tone
• Ultra linear performance for natural boost
• Compact and easy to use – great for pedalboards

The Radial BigShot PB1 is a combination power booster and buffer designed to provide exceptional sonic performance for pedalboard users in a compact and simple package. It provides 15dB of boost, accessed using a guitar pick via a rear-mounted recessed control that is protected from foot stomp damage.
Unlike class-B preamps found in most pedals that color the tone and give buffers a bad name, the BigShot PB1 features 100% discreet class-A circuit topology for the utmost in sound quality. Class-A circuits are preferred due to reduced zero cross distortion, improved phase response and the resulting smooth Bessel curve of evenly cascading harmonics. This is augmented with Drag™ control, a variable load correction circuit that lets you dial in the perfect impedance to match the original tone and feel of your guitar and amp combination.

With the PB1, noise is reduced while performance is augmented. Long cable runs are finally possible. And when you hit the boost, you get smooth clean control like you never though possible. The BigShot PB1 is likely the finest guitar power booster ever made.

Well... talk about 'kin extreme! Just use a $50 Morley Volume pedal... it's exactly what it's for... varying the volume!! Put it in the FX Loop and you'll be in volume control heaven!

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by Stewart Ward

Well... talk about 'kin extreme! Just use a $50 Morley Volume pedal... it's exactly what it's for... varying the volume!! Put it in the FX Loop and you'll be in volume control heaven!

Speaking of which, is there any way to rig a volume pedal to push the overdrive without changing the output volume? In other words, a volume pedal for the preamp, not the Master? It would be kind of cool to be able to vary the amount of clean to overdrive along the entire spectrum rather than full on or off like you get when changing channels or hitting an OD pedal.

Justin

[TxTeleMan]

Originally Posted by NobleSteed

When you are using amp overdrive is there any way to boost overall volume for solos? Using boost pedals seems to just add more distortion, which makes sense. But I was wondering how all of you that use amp overdrive get more volume for leads. I'm open to all suggestions.

I have a clean boost pedal with a volume control. Here's one way to accomplish what you want.

With the boost "off", set your amp and guitar for the lead/solo overdrive sound you want, for your most searing leads.

Next, switch "on" the clean boost pedal and turn it down below unity gain, so that there's actually a volume drop going through the pedal.

In this way you can get a clean rhythm tone with the boost on, and a searing overdrive lead tone with the boost off. This is similar to what Stewart Ward was saying.

[Wrong-Note Rod]

Originally Posted by octatonic

Working the volume knob only works with mild overdrive.
If the OP is using a high gain amp then there won't be much level change form the guitar volume knob- it will just clean up.

A boost of some description in the loop is the only way if the primary distortion generation is the amp head.

He chould try using a pedal EQ in the loop as well- set it for a midrange boost (an inverse V) and it will really cut through.
I did this for years- these days I use a 3 channel amp though as it gives me more tonal flexibility.

There you go. An EQ pedal in the loop or even in your normal signal chain is a great way to go, lots of guys use this for an already way-overdriven amp.

The idea is to just push the mids and upper mids more, so it cuts thru the mix and will be heard.

Another idea is to use a dirt pedal thats "known" to be sort of "mid-rangey" or have what some guys describe as a "mid-hump". My favorite of all these is the old standard Boss Blues Driver. Set the gain to low and the output to high and the tone knob to desired... that will REALLY make your solos scream and cut thru the mix.

[losergeek]

Originally Posted by Wrong-Note Rod

There you go. An EQ pedal in the loop or even in your normal signal chain is a great way to go, lots of guys use this for an already way-overdriven amp.

The idea is to just push the mids and upper mids more, so it cuts thru the mix and will be heard.

I've just started doing this as well - I started with a treble booster which also worked, but wanted a little more control, so I can go with the uppermids on an EQ pedal, and also tailor it a little to the guitar I'm playing (treble boost was a little much with the single coils). I assume this works because you're killing the volume in some of the frequencies, thereby opening more 'space' for the ones that cut through better

[Stevelee07]

Boss SD 1 overdrive pedal, turn the volume up and the gain right down, with this you have 2 in one, a booster and a overdrive pedal.
Best cheap pedal out there and solid as a rock

[Stewart Ward]

Originally Posted by Justinvs

Speaking of which, is there any way to rig a volume pedal to push the overdrive without changing the output volume? In other words, a volume pedal for the preamp, not the Master? It would be kind of cool to be able to vary the amount of clean to overdrive along the entire spectrum rather than full on or off like you get when changing channels or hitting an OD pedal.

Justin

Yes, but only on a 'computer amp' - modelling amp to you!

As the distortion depth increases the volume increases too, hence the need for a master volume. However, I have seen it done by a collegue who designs 'computer amps'. So only in software can the volume be made to track the distortion depth with any accuracy. His amp could go from totally clean to flat out distortion mayhem without ever having to even touch the volume control... and the distortion 'Depth' was on a foot controller like a volume pedal... COOL!

[Wrong-Note Rod]

Originally Posted by Justinvs

Speaking of which, is there any way to rig a volume pedal to push the overdrive without changing the output volume? In other words, a volume pedal for the preamp, not the Master? It would be kind of cool to be able to vary the amount of clean to overdrive along the entire spectrum rather than full on or off like you get when changing channels or hitting an OD pedal.

Justin

to me, thats almost exactly what a guitar volume control does. Given the right pickup and the right amp settings.

From my experience, with an overdriven guitar amp, guitar volumes from about 1 to 5 or 6, result in a more "clean" sound... and turned up from 7 to 10, generally increases the gain, and some volume, but often not as much as one would think.

In a situation like that, turning the guitars volume knob up from 7 or 8, up to 10, doesnt get a lot of volume increase, it gives gain increase.

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by Stewart Ward

Yes, but only on a 'computer amp' - modelling amp to you!

As the distortion depth increases the volume increases too, hence the need for a master volume. However, I have seen it done by a collegue who designs 'computer amps'. So only in software can the volume be made to track the distortion depth with any accuracy. His amp could go from totally clean to flat out distortion mayhem without ever having to even touch the volume control... and the distortion 'Depth' was on a foot controller like a volume pedal... COOL!

That sounds like it would have been a blast to play around with!

I had at one time thought about swapping the guts out of an old wah-wah pedal I had with a an OD pedal and fixing the gain pot to the roller arm, but I could never figure a way to get around the volume issue, either.

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by Wrong-Note Rod

to me, thats almost exactly what a guitar volume control does. Given the right pickup and the right amp settings.

From my experience, with an overdriven guitar amp, guitar volumes from about 1 to 5 or 6, result in a more "clean" sound... and turned up from 7 to 10, generally increases the gain, and some volume, but often not as much as one would think.

In a situation like that, turning the guitars volume knob up from 7 or 8, up to 10, doesnt get a lot of volume increase, it gives gain increase.

I can do that on my tweed Vibrolux, although it never develops the gritty distortion that a Deluxe or a Bassman produces. Still, it does work. With my BFSR, though, all I can really get with guitar knobs are volume swells. But, since I need OD or Distortion pedals to get any real grit with that amp anyhow, the point is kind of moot.

[strat71]

not the cheapest solution, but it works like a charm...
i use a Ultimate attenuator with switchable dual volumes... i use it with my 50W plexi marshall, on 6, already overdriven...
i set the first volume level on my ultimate for my rythm sounds, and the second for solo... exactly the same sound but at a different level...
ultimate attenuators are not cheap so you may consider another solution...
Ben