'61 Fender Bassman for Tele & Steel guitar?

Freedom Fries · April 3rd, 2005, 12:57 PM

I own a ’61-’62 blonde Fender Bassman, piggyback amp with 1x12 cab, speaker is either Jensens or Oxfords (a little farty). I added a master volume mod years back.

The amp is 50 watts, so there isn’t a lot of headroom for steel guitar.

I would like to update this amp, reverse the mod, new speaker, etc. and make it usable for both Tele and steel guitar.

I have done a forum search regarding Fender amps and came up with a ton of useful threads. But I would like any modification info specific to the Bassman to getthe most tone and headroom out of the amp. Also, I will need to replace the speaker with a Weber or JBL.

There are a lot of amp gurus here and your opinions would be greatly appreciated!

thanks,
Drew

David Barnett · April 3rd, 2005, 02:02 PM

With a valuable vintage amp, you don't wanna modify it too much. Please tell me you didn't drill a hole in the faceplate for that master volume control. A hole in the rear panel would hurt my feelings a lot less... :)

BTW, it's really more like 35-40 watts.

You want headroom? Work on the speakers. Nothing else will get you clean volume like efficient speakers. 2x 12" Weber Californias oughtta do what you are seeking. If the baffle board in your Bassman speaker cabinet is screwed in, you can cut a new 2x 12" baffle without irreversibly modifying the original one. If the original baffle isn't removable, then I'd suggest finding someone to fabricate a new 2x 12" cabinet for you. http://www.avatarspeakers.com/list%20guitar.htm and http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/cgi...ml?id=iEdvc7oQ are two good possibilities.

Freedom Fries · April 3rd, 2005, 02:15 PM

David,

No , no new holes! The presence was converted to the master volume and the ext. speaker jack is now the presence control. Easily reversible.

Photo from Ampwares Fender Field Guide

BTW- I agree that external mods to a vintage amp are a dumb idea. Thanks for the info on the speakers.

Probably I'll just reverse the mods, get a new speaker and start from there.

thanks,
Drew

Paul in Colorado · April 3rd, 2005, 11:13 PM

I agree with David. You might have someone build you a 1 X 15" cab so you have better bass responce with the steel. If you can't find a JBL, use a Weber California. Those blonde Bassman amps are killer. I had a retolexed one as my first decent amp.

David Barnett · April 4th, 2005, 03:07 AM

Dang, how many knee levers you got on that steel???

cowboytwang · April 4th, 2005, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul in Colorado

I agree with David. You might have someone build you a 1 X 15" cab so you have better bass responce with the steel. If you can't find a JBL, use a Weber California. Those blonde Bassman amps are killer. I had a retolexed one as my first decent amp.

I have a blackface bassman that I use with a JBL D-130, on steel or guitar it sounds great.

ne4tt · April 4th, 2005, 09:22 AM

For mo' headroom, try the 7581A.
A drop in replacement for the 6L6.

Please note: 7591A is not a drop in replacement.

Cabs:

"Crusty" gz34@comcast.net

JD Newell

Rick Johnson-Thread rickjohnson@setel.com Pic

BTW, Which brand of steel are you using? Fedderson?

jamie

Freedom Fries · April 4th, 2005, 02:45 PM

David and net4tt,

I play a 2002 Fessenden D-10, 8 pedals and 8 knees, each neck has 5 knees (2 shared). It is an all-pull guitar.

Jerry Fessenden built guitars for Sho-Bud and Dekley back in the day.

Robert Randolph and Tommy White (Opry) also play Fessy's.

I'm also his webmaster...http://www.fessendensteelguitars.com/

I play thru Peavey Nashville 400's. While these amps have a ton of power (210w), headroom and low end, they aren't tube amps. Thus my query.

Thanks for your interest!

Drew

4mal · April 8th, 2005, 01:35 PM

The JBL 130 is pretty much the standard for pedal steel I thought ...

Wally · April 8th, 2005, 02:36 PM

IMO, the basic changes needed to make that amp work for steel would be to increase the first stage of capacitance and decrease the gain at the input and the preamp. That will give good results only if reasonable volume levels are wanted and if you are willing to live with the sonic changes vis-a-vis the Tele..that is, you will lose some of the heat that the tele makes now. You will definitely get more headroom. You will be able to go to the low note on that C6 neck, but you will still have a 45-50 watt amp.
The 7581's will extend headroom somewhat, also. I would suggest an EV vs. the JBL, but that is a personal preference. A later period SFTR would be a better choice, imho...the UL135 is a killer steel amp if it is running well.

David Barnett · April 8th, 2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

IMO, the basic changes needed to make that amp work for steel would be to increase the first stage of capacitance and decrease the gain at the input and the preamp. That will give good results only if reasonable volume levels are wanted and if you are willing to live with the sonic changes vis-a-vis the Tele..that is, you will lose some of the heat that the tele makes now. You will definitely get more headroom.

Well, the amp has two channels, who says he has to play the Tele and the steel through the same input?

Bill Ashton · April 8th, 2005, 03:53 PM

an EVM-12L on eBay as it was too clean for my Tremolux, perhaps that is what you might look for, though I am sure the JBL's are fine speakers too...

Local music store was selling a Peavy Renown (tube?) and Session 400 for $99 each last weekend...ugh, heavy...my hernia hurts just thinking about them!!

Wally · April 8th, 2005, 04:43 PM

The increased capacitance will firm up the lower end for the whole amp, but the two channels can be set up for two different levels of gain.

Aaron Schiff · April 10th, 2005, 02:15 AM

I am a believer in playing steel through unusual amps. I currently play mine through the same amp I use for guitar (Ashdown Peacemaker 40 1x12 combo with a 2x12 extention cab). But, my experience with the old Bassman heads was that there was a significant amount of distortion and that was the primary headroom problem for steel, not the 50 watts. Great for guitar, good for bass, not for steel. I would prefer the old Bandmaster and Showman heads for steel. Tell Jerry he needs more photos of his gorgeous guitars on his site. Maybe a "Gallery" page with a couple hundred different guitars would quench my thirst.

Freedom Fries · April 10th, 2005, 10:10 AM

Wally,

Thanks for your informative replies. I think I may just leave this amp alone as I've got a chance at a deal on a 70's SF Twin.

Arron,

I agree Jerry needs more "product" shots on his site. Go to the players pages and you'll see lots more steel guitar there.

cheers all,
Drew

April 3rd, 2005, 12:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Freedom Fries Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mason, MI Posts: 235	'61 Fender Bassman for Tele & Steel guitar? I own a ’61-’62 blonde Fender Bassman, piggyback amp with 1x12 cab, speaker is either Jensens or Oxfords (a little farty). I added a master volume mod years back. The amp is 50 watts, so there isn’t a lot of headroom for steel guitar. I would like to update this amp, reverse the mod, new speaker, etc. and make it usable for both Tele and steel guitar. I have done a forum search regarding Fender amps and came up with a ton of useful threads. But I would like any modification info specific to the Bassman to getthe most tone and headroom out of the amp. Also, I will need to replace the speaker with a Weber or JBL. There are a lot of amp gurus here and your opinions would be greatly appreciated! thanks, Drew __________________ http://www.drewhoward.com http://www.steelshealtheworld.com

April 3rd, 2005, 02:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
Freedom Fries Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mason, MI Posts: 235	Master volume mod David, No , no new holes! The presence was converted to the master volume and the ext. speaker jack is now the presence control. Easily reversible. Photo from Ampwares Fender Field Guide BTW- I agree that external mods to a vintage amp are a dumb idea. Thanks for the info on the speakers. Probably I'll just reverse the mods, get a new speaker and start from there. thanks, Drew __________________ http://www.drewhoward.com http://www.steelshealtheworld.com

April 4th, 2005, 09:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
ne4tt Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,594 4 Photos	7581A and Cabs For mo' headroom, try the 7581A. A drop in replacement for the 6L6. Please note: 7591A is not a drop in replacement. Cabs: "Crusty" gz34@comcast.net JD Newell Rick Johnson-Thread rickjohnson@setel.com Pic BTW, Which brand of steel are you using? Fedderson? jamie

April 4th, 2005, 02:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
Freedom Fries Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mason, MI Posts: 235	Pedal Steel David and net4tt, I play a 2002 Fessenden D-10, 8 pedals and 8 knees, each neck has 5 knees (2 shared). It is an all-pull guitar. Jerry Fessenden built guitars for Sho-Bud and Dekley back in the day. Robert Randolph and Tommy White (Opry) also play Fessy's. I'm also his webmaster...http://www.fessendensteelguitars.com/ I play thru Peavey Nashville 400's. While these amps have a ton of power (210w), headroom and low end, they aren't tube amps. Thus my query. Thanks for your interest! Drew __________________ http://www.drewhoward.com http://www.steelshealtheworld.com

April 8th, 2005, 02:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	Capacitance and preamp gain IMO, the basic changes needed to make that amp work for steel would be to increase the first stage of capacitance and decrease the gain at the input and the preamp. That will give good results only if reasonable volume levels are wanted and if you are willing to live with the sonic changes vis-a-vis the Tele..that is, you will lose some of the heat that the tele makes now. You will definitely get more headroom. You will be able to go to the low note on that C6 neck, but you will still have a 45-50 watt amp. The 7581's will extend headroom somewhat, also. I would suggest an EV vs. the JBL, but that is a personal preference. A later period SFTR would be a better choice, imho...the UL135 is a killer steel amp if it is running well.

April 3rd, 2005, 02:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,491	With a valuable vintage amp, you don't wanna modify it too much. Please tell me you didn't drill a hole in the faceplate for that master volume control. A hole in the rear panel would hurt my feelings a lot less... :) BTW, it's really more like 35-40 watts. You want headroom? Work on the speakers. Nothing else will get you clean volume like efficient speakers. 2x 12" Weber Californias oughtta do what you are seeking. If the baffle board in your Bassman speaker cabinet is screwed in, you can cut a new 2x 12" baffle without irreversibly modifying the original one. If the original baffle isn't removable, then I'd suggest finding someone to fabricate a new 2x 12" cabinet for you. http://www.avatarspeakers.com/list%20guitar.htm and http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/cgi...ml?id=iEdvc7oQ are two good possibilities.

April 3rd, 2005, 11:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 56 Posts: 4,446 3 Photos	I agree with David. You might have someone build you a 1 X 15" cab so you have better bass responce with the steel. If you can't find a JBL, use a Weber California. Those blonde Bassman amps are killer. I had a retolexed one as my first decent amp.

April 4th, 2005, 03:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,491	Dang, how many knee levers you got on that steel???

April 8th, 2005, 01:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
4mal Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Gorge Posts: 2,198	The JBL 130 is pretty much the standard for pedal steel I thought ...

April 8th, 2005, 03:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
Bill Ashton Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Massachusetts Posts: 512	Having just sold... an EVM-12L on eBay as it was too clean for my Tremolux, perhaps that is what you might look for, though I am sure the JBL's are fine speakers too... Local music store was selling a Peavy Renown (tube?) and Session 400 for $99 each last weekend...ugh, heavy...my hernia hurts just thinking about them!!

April 8th, 2005, 04:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	You are correct, David. The increased capacitance will firm up the lower end for the whole amp, but the two channels can be set up for two different levels of gain.

April 10th, 2005, 02:15 AM	#14 (permalink)
Aaron Schiff Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cedaredge, CO Posts: 347	I am a believer in playing steel through unusual amps. I currently play mine through the same amp I use for guitar (Ashdown Peacemaker 40 1x12 combo with a 2x12 extention cab). But, my experience with the old Bassman heads was that there was a significant amount of distortion and that was the primary headroom problem for steel, not the 50 watts. Great for guitar, good for bass, not for steel. I would prefer the old Bandmaster and Showman heads for steel. Tell Jerry he needs more photos of his gorgeous guitars on his site. Maybe a "Gallery" page with a couple hundred different guitars would quench my thirst.

April 10th, 2005, 10:10 AM	#15 (permalink)
Freedom Fries Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mason, MI Posts: 235	Thanks Wally, Thanks for your informative replies. I think I may just leave this amp alone as I've got a chance at a deal on a 70's SF Twin. Arron, I agree Jerry needs more "product" shots on his site. Go to the players pages and you'll see lots more steel guitar there. cheers all, Drew __________________ http://www.drewhoward.com http://www.steelshealtheworld.com