Should I buy this DR?

coyotemorgan · April 2nd, 2005, 08:11 AM

Used Deluxe Reverbs are hard to come by in Toronto, but I found one, a '77 SF yesterday. I'd like to buy it but there are three obvious issues. First, it is not quiet. There is a hiss that's louder than most amps at 3 so that you can hear it clearly about 15 feet away. Second there's a light rapid ticking sound at all times, related to Tremolo, such that if I increase the Speed setting, the ticking increases. When both Speed and Intensity are off, you can still hear it. You can't hear it when playing but it's there. Third, it doesn't come with a footswitch, so the head of an rca jack is put into the out at the back of the amp. The amp sounds great, but can these issues be addressed at a reasonable price?

DrewB · April 2nd, 2005, 08:44 AM

It probably needs a cap job, which is just general maintenance that you need to do every 10-15 years or so, though they sometimes last longer. It shouldn't set you back more than $100, I wouldn't think.

boogaloo · April 2nd, 2005, 08:55 AM

how much it was, but everything being equal- what Drew said. A little investyment and you'll have a friend for life. A toneful friend.

Brian

coyotemorgan · April 2nd, 2005, 09:21 AM

The price is $850 US. I know that really sounds like a lot, but like I said I've been looking for a couple of months and there are absolutely no other DR's to be seen, except for $2000 BF's. I could get one off EBay for maybe $700, but then shipping and brokerage fees and taxes and shipping risk...comes to the same thing! If any one out there has a DR for $500-600, let me know!

Bluesbob · April 2nd, 2005, 10:10 AM

I hate to say, but I think the days of the $500 SFDR have ended, at least for one that doesn't need a total rebuild, like from some hack job. Ask the store how much it costs if they repair the obvious problems (filter caps, new repro footswitch, vibrato roach and/or resistors, etc.). If it comes to more than $1000 US I'd move on. But then, I already have a SFDR which is not only becoming more valuable, but also is turning into my main amp for band practice and jams, ie., any time I don't need tons of volume and/or headroom and my back hurts. Which is becoming more often. The cost to have a tech overhaul it shouldn't be over $250 US. The footswitch is around $45 US. So at $850 US for the amp you're looking at $1095 US. You may also want save the old speaker and buy a new one with better tone (around $50 to $100 US.) Not a bargain, but if the tolex is clean and the faceplate and grill cloth are relatively nice, you'd have a "friend for life". Good luck, hope this helps.

boogaloo · April 2nd, 2005, 10:30 AM

and you have a unique situation living in Canada- and not too close to the US border...

Sans a trip to the states or a friend from the states visiting you (bringing an amp along with him) what else can you do? I think BluesBob is giving good advice. Keep it around a grand total cost and it's still sweet in my opinion, given the variables.

I bought a 59 Bassman RI that had a Hoffman board in it back the end of December. Got it for a good price, but by the time I got done messing with it (see my long boring posts right here on this page) it cost me about $1100. total. I have an Alessandro built board now and the amp sounds great. But is it/will it be worth as much as a Fender...nah! I'm very happy with it, but some would probably say I was mad...

Best wishes and let us know what you decide to do.

Brian

coyotemorgan · April 2nd, 2005, 10:44 AM

Thanks for the comments and encouragement. I guess first of all, the amp does sound good, and that's without a new speaker and tubes...it's still got Fender power tubes in it, though I don't know if they're original. One last thing - I notice that the power tubes move around quite freely without actually falling out - is this a common problem with an easy fix...i.e. replace the sockets? Thanks.

scot · April 2nd, 2005, 11:36 AM

One thing to always remember about BF and nearly all SF amps, is that no matter what is wrong with them, it can be fixed....no part is irreplaceable, and so whatever is wrong with it, the up side is that you will own a vintage Fender amp, that can almost always be transformed into a killer tone machine.

trag-o-caster · April 2nd, 2005, 12:21 PM

GET IT NOW!!!

DON'T WAIT!!!

boogaloo · April 2nd, 2005, 06:51 PM

I had the same problem with my tube sockets on the power tubes of my new Bassman. A pro told me it's quite common and he "adjusted" them for me (dunno what he did but they don't weeble anymo') and for good measure he put in those "tensioner" thingies that are somewhat spring loaded and tighten against the base of the tube (the bakelite or plastic base...)

He told me they were good USA made sockets I believe him and there seems to be no more problem. I took the amp for a ride last Wednesday, hauled it into rehearsal, brought it back, fell up the steps with it (if you don't ask, I won't admit to anything..) and played it for two hours Friday without a hitch.

My friend, the crystal ball is broken but, I predict you'll be happy.

Brian

coyotemorgan · April 2nd, 2005, 10:35 PM

I'm already happy about it! I went out and bought it and it's sitting a few feet away. I bought some mid-range JJ6V6's on the way home and put the one vintage tube I have, a Mullard in V2, and it's sounding very nice, like it's meant to be here! It's got a Fender speaker in it that I'll probably replace...any suggestions for a speaker that's not too chimey? The tremolo ticking has stopped. I had the speaker out cable resoldered and put a new plug on it and now it's stopped. Yes, these DR's are easy to service!

scot · April 2nd, 2005, 10:54 PM

Believe it or not....I have a very broken in Celestion Blue in my '65. (there is some debate..it could be a '66.) Anyway, it sounds great if you like the kind of breakup that speaker provides. Some people would say wrong kind of amp...and the new blues take some breaking in. All I know is that it sounds great (perhaps because it is so broken in, I bought if from my buddy Duke Levine, who used it in his Matchless on a world tour with Mary Chapin Carpenter.) I have heard others who like the Jensens, but one fellow I dearly respect suggested putting a Celestion Vintage 30 in it because they don't break up as much. I guess it all comes down to taste.

boogaloo · April 3rd, 2005, 12:57 AM

Congrats Coyotemorgan! Hope you have many years of pleasure. When I'm not playing my 70 SFSR, I'm often just looking at it. Heck, I even like the way it smells after playing it for a couple of hours. Happy for you man!

I am no speaker expert- but I think several folks knowledgable here have strongly recommended the 12F150 Weber for Deluxe Reverbs. Also, I'll put in a vote for the Celestion 30- to me it let enough of the amp break up to come through, and mine did not sound flabby in the lower ends. I was using it in a Deluxe RI and I was going to build a cab for it to use with my Mesa F30 but I sold it when I bought the Bassman.

Webers may be harder to find used and they ain't cheap new but they are good. Celestion V30's can be found used in great condition and won't rupture the wallet.

hey- keep us posted on how you and it are doing.

Brian

coyotemorgan · April 3rd, 2005, 01:13 AM

Thanks for the best wishes. I like looking at it too. Actually it's also my desktop right now! As for speakers, I had a Weber Blue Dog before and it's a great speaker, but somewhat more chimey than I like. An amp tech told me that Celestions require some drilling of holes in the cabinet because of their screw hole configuration. Is this true for all of them? The Vintage 30, like you say, is a pretty good speaker. I'd like to try a 12F150...I've heard nothing but good about them, and I've also heard that some of the Eminence Red's would work...the something Jack, someone recommended. So much to choose from!

Ringo · April 3rd, 2005, 01:40 AM

I had a Celestion V 30 in my 68 DR, in order to use it I had to drill some holes in the speaker rim because the Celestions only have mounting 4 holes. I didn't want to break off any of the studs in the baffle, another option.

IF you try that you have be very very careful not to get any of the metal filings into the voice coil, or the speaker will buzz like crazy.

I've had a lot of different speakers in my 68 DR,
a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog, which sounded good - it ended up in another amp that I sold.
RI Jensen C12K I didn't like it, too harsh and bright, Celestion V30, good all around speaker
Celestion G12H80 I think was the model?
I liked it even better than the V30, very good full range sound, for some reason I traded it off, can't remember why, it really sounded the best of any of the speakers I've had in my DR.

Currently using an Alltone 1250 which is also a great speaker, Reverend has quit making these, but you can still find them used reasonably priced.

I've been thinking about trying out one of the new Eminence Red Coat speakers, a friend has one of the 15" versions in his Fender style amp, it sounds very good!
lot's of options out there, if you can buy used you can try some out and resell them if they aren't what you're looking for.
Congradulations on your "new" amp, with proper care it will outlast you!

jjmantele · April 9th, 2005, 11:50 PM

Since the hiss goes up when you increase the volume knob it is related to the 1st gain stage. Could be a simple plate resistor or tube. The rca "head" in the trem jack means it's always "on." The tick is common and I used a cap to eliminate it on my '71. It's the (double) blue one in the middle of the chassis pic. Cost about a dollar to $15 to fix both problems if you (safely!) do it yourself. Or make a friend who knows how.

http://www.geocities.com/jjsant/SFDR.html

coyotemorgan · April 11th, 2005, 07:04 PM

I'm having my amp "tuned-up" right now. He didn't think that the hiss was unusual but I passed on info about defective plate resistors in the preamp stage and changing "the 100k 1/2 watt to 100k 1 watt which should decrease the hiss factor quite a bit"...some info I picked up from another site. My amp tech looked over the amp and thought it was generally in pretty good shape. I had the bright cap removed. The previous owner had hooked up reverb to the clean channel, which seems like a good idea. He also mentioned the mod for the vibrato glitch. The original caps were in it and though working fine the tech suggested I change the old Mallory filter caps for new ones, given they could malfunction (through age) at any time. He's going to do the Blackface mod, and check all the wiring, etc. Hey, jjmantele, why'd you change the original (non-filter) caps to blues? Same reason I changed mine?

jjmantele · April 14th, 2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyotemorgan

.............. Hey, jjmantele, why'd you change the original (non-filter) caps to blues? Same reason I changed mine?

Changing filter caps is part of a 10 year tune up. All but one of mine were original. Also have all the cathode caps and the bias cap changed as part of that tune up. These caps are electrolytic and will eventually go bad or leak acid like a battery eventually will.

If you mean the coupling caps, I changed them to orange drops since they were originally the dreaded evil chocolate drops. Many "gurus" poo poo these dootie drops and I trusted them. It's hard to say how the tone changed since it turned out my Weber was rubbing before the change. I kept all the chocolates and may experiment by putting all or some of them back in some day.

PSWoods · April 15th, 2005, 10:56 AM

Sorry - I didn't read the whole thread, but has anyone mentioned a DRRI? They really are good, and for about the same money, with a warranty. IMHO they have the real DR mojovibemagicsparkle.

...forgot to mention - Traynor YGM3 is a 1:1 knockoff of an old Deluxe - PTP wired and everything. They still go for <= $500 on eBay. Difft. cosmetics, obviously, but that's it.

April 2nd, 2005, 08:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
coyotemorgan Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 147	Should I buy this DR? Used Deluxe Reverbs are hard to come by in Toronto, but I found one, a '77 SF yesterday. I'd like to buy it but there are three obvious issues. First, it is not quiet. There is a hiss that's louder than most amps at 3 so that you can hear it clearly about 15 feet away. Second there's a light rapid ticking sound at all times, related to Tremolo, such that if I increase the Speed setting, the ticking increases. When both Speed and Intensity are off, you can still hear it. You can't hear it when playing but it's there. Third, it doesn't come with a footswitch, so the head of an rca jack is put into the out at the back of the amp. The amp sounds great, but can these issues be addressed at a reasonable price?

April 2nd, 2005, 08:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
DrewB Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Independence, MO Posts: 1,107	It probably needs a cap job, which is just general maintenance that you need to do every 10-15 years or so, though they sometimes last longer. It shouldn't set you back more than $100, I wouldn't think. __________________ There is no substitute for Sound Pressure Level

April 2nd, 2005, 08:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
boogaloo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: S/E Pa. Age: 52 Posts: 1,129	You Didn't Mention how much it was, but everything being equal- what Drew said. A little investyment and you'll have a friend for life. A toneful friend. Brian __________________ "..and I've got some tricks up my sleeve...oh yes indeed! It might come back to haunt 'cha..don't you throw that Mojo on me!"

April 2nd, 2005, 10:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bluesbob Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: East Suffolk L.I. Posts: 1,072 20 Photos	Times have changed... I hate to say, but I think the days of the $500 SFDR have ended, at least for one that doesn't need a total rebuild, like from some hack job. Ask the store how much it costs if they repair the obvious problems (filter caps, new repro footswitch, vibrato roach and/or resistors, etc.). If it comes to more than $1000 US I'd move on. But then, I already have a SFDR which is not only becoming more valuable, but also is turning into my main amp for band practice and jams, ie., any time I don't need tons of volume and/or headroom and my back hurts. Which is becoming more often. The cost to have a tech overhaul it shouldn't be over $250 US. The footswitch is around $45 US. So at $850 US for the amp you're looking at $1095 US. You may also want save the old speaker and buy a new one with better tone (around $50 to $100 US.) Not a bargain, but if the tolex is clean and the faceplate and grill cloth are relatively nice, you'd have a "friend for life". Good luck, hope this helps. __________________ What, me worry?

April 2nd, 2005, 10:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
boogaloo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: S/E Pa. Age: 52 Posts: 1,129	Costs ARE Going Up and you have a unique situation living in Canada- and not too close to the US border... Sans a trip to the states or a friend from the states visiting you (bringing an amp along with him) what else can you do? I think BluesBob is giving good advice. Keep it around a grand total cost and it's still sweet in my opinion, given the variables. I bought a 59 Bassman RI that had a Hoffman board in it back the end of December. Got it for a good price, but by the time I got done messing with it (see my long boring posts right here on this page) it cost me about $1100. total. I have an Alessandro built board now and the amp sounds great. But is it/will it be worth as much as a Fender...nah! I'm very happy with it, but some would probably say I was mad... Best wishes and let us know what you decide to do. Brian __________________ "..and I've got some tricks up my sleeve...oh yes indeed! It might come back to haunt 'cha..don't you throw that Mojo on me!"

April 2nd, 2005, 09:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
coyotemorgan Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 147	The price is $850 US. I know that really sounds like a lot, but like I said I've been looking for a couple of months and there are absolutely no other DR's to be seen, except for $2000 BF's. I could get one off EBay for maybe $700, but then shipping and brokerage fees and taxes and shipping risk...comes to the same thing! If any one out there has a DR for $500-600, let me know!

April 2nd, 2005, 10:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
coyotemorgan Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 147	Thanks for the comments and encouragement. I guess first of all, the amp does sound good, and that's without a new speaker and tubes...it's still got Fender power tubes in it, though I don't know if they're original. One last thing - I notice that the power tubes move around quite freely without actually falling out - is this a common problem with an easy fix...i.e. replace the sockets? Thanks.

April 2nd, 2005, 11:36 AM	#8 (permalink)
scot Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 142	One thing to always remember about BF and nearly all SF amps, is that no matter what is wrong with them, it can be fixed....no part is irreplaceable, and so whatever is wrong with it, the up side is that you will own a vintage Fender amp, that can almost always be transformed into a killer tone machine. __________________ If you can hear your fingers coming out of the amp, you are on the right track. My Vintage Guitars

April 2nd, 2005, 12:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
trag-o-caster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Flushing, Michigan Posts: 4,631	GET IT NOW!!! DON'T WAIT!!! __________________ Timothy Jon Lamb

April 2nd, 2005, 06:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
boogaloo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: S/E Pa. Age: 52 Posts: 1,129	Weebles Wobble, They Don't Fall (OUT) I had the same problem with my tube sockets on the power tubes of my new Bassman. A pro told me it's quite common and he "adjusted" them for me (dunno what he did but they don't weeble anymo') and for good measure he put in those "tensioner" thingies that are somewhat spring loaded and tighten against the base of the tube (the bakelite or plastic base...) He told me they were good USA made sockets I believe him and there seems to be no more problem. I took the amp for a ride last Wednesday, hauled it into rehearsal, brought it back, fell up the steps with it (if you don't ask, I won't admit to anything..) and played it for two hours Friday without a hitch. My friend, the crystal ball is broken but, I predict you'll be happy. Brian __________________ "..and I've got some tricks up my sleeve...oh yes indeed! It might come back to haunt 'cha..don't you throw that Mojo on me!"

April 2nd, 2005, 10:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
coyotemorgan Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 147	I'm already happy about it! I went out and bought it and it's sitting a few feet away. I bought some mid-range JJ6V6's on the way home and put the one vintage tube I have, a Mullard in V2, and it's sounding very nice, like it's meant to be here! It's got a Fender speaker in it that I'll probably replace...any suggestions for a speaker that's not too chimey? The tremolo ticking has stopped. I had the speaker out cable resoldered and put a new plug on it and now it's stopped. Yes, these DR's are easy to service!

April 2nd, 2005, 10:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
scot Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 142	Believe it or not....I have a very broken in Celestion Blue in my '65. (there is some debate..it could be a '66.) Anyway, it sounds great if you like the kind of breakup that speaker provides. Some people would say wrong kind of amp...and the new blues take some breaking in. All I know is that it sounds great (perhaps because it is so broken in, I bought if from my buddy Duke Levine, who used it in his Matchless on a world tour with Mary Chapin Carpenter.) I have heard others who like the Jensens, but one fellow I dearly respect suggested putting a Celestion Vintage 30 in it because they don't break up as much. I guess it all comes down to taste. __________________ If you can hear your fingers coming out of the amp, you are on the right track. My Vintage Guitars

April 3rd, 2005, 12:57 AM	#13 (permalink)
boogaloo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: S/E Pa. Age: 52 Posts: 1,129	Whoo Hoo! Congrats Coyotemorgan! Hope you have many years of pleasure. When I'm not playing my 70 SFSR, I'm often just looking at it. Heck, I even like the way it smells after playing it for a couple of hours. Happy for you man! I am no speaker expert- but I think several folks knowledgable here have strongly recommended the 12F150 Weber for Deluxe Reverbs. Also, I'll put in a vote for the Celestion 30- to me it let enough of the amp break up to come through, and mine did not sound flabby in the lower ends. I was using it in a Deluxe RI and I was going to build a cab for it to use with my Mesa F30 but I sold it when I bought the Bassman. Webers may be harder to find used and they ain't cheap new but they are good. Celestion V30's can be found used in great condition and won't rupture the wallet. hey- keep us posted on how you and it are doing. Brian __________________ "..and I've got some tricks up my sleeve...oh yes indeed! It might come back to haunt 'cha..don't you throw that Mojo on me!"

April 3rd, 2005, 01:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
coyotemorgan Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 147	Thanks for the best wishes. I like looking at it too. Actually it's also my desktop right now! As for speakers, I had a Weber Blue Dog before and it's a great speaker, but somewhat more chimey than I like. An amp tech told me that Celestions require some drilling of holes in the cabinet because of their screw hole configuration. Is this true for all of them? The Vintage 30, like you say, is a pretty good speaker. I'd like to try a 12F150...I've heard nothing but good about them, and I've also heard that some of the Eminence Red's would work...the something Jack, someone recommended. So much to choose from!

April 3rd, 2005, 01:40 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ringo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 1,925	speakers in a DR I had a Celestion V 30 in my 68 DR, in order to use it I had to drill some holes in the speaker rim because the Celestions only have mounting 4 holes. I didn't want to break off any of the studs in the baffle, another option. IF you try that you have be very very careful not to get any of the metal filings into the voice coil, or the speaker will buzz like crazy. I've had a lot of different speakers in my 68 DR, a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog, which sounded good - it ended up in another amp that I sold. RI Jensen C12K I didn't like it, too harsh and bright, Celestion V30, good all around speaker Celestion G12H80 I think was the model? I liked it even better than the V30, very good full range sound, for some reason I traded it off, can't remember why, it really sounded the best of any of the speakers I've had in my DR. Currently using an Alltone 1250 which is also a great speaker, Reverend has quit making these, but you can still find them used reasonably priced. I've been thinking about trying out one of the new Eminence Red Coat speakers, a friend has one of the 15" versions in his Fender style amp, it sounds very good! lot's of options out there, if you can buy used you can try some out and resell them if they aren't what you're looking for. Congradulations on your "new" amp, with proper care it will outlast you!

April 9th, 2005, 11:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
jjmantele Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 851	Hiss and tick Since the hiss goes up when you increase the volume knob it is related to the 1st gain stage. Could be a simple plate resistor or tube. The rca "head" in the trem jack means it's always "on." The tick is common and I used a cap to eliminate it on my '71. It's the (double) blue one in the middle of the chassis pic. Cost about a dollar to $15 to fix both problems if you (safely!) do it yourself. Or make a friend who knows how. http://www.geocities.com/jjsant/SFDR.html __________________ JJman If it says "Vintage" on it -it isn't.

April 11th, 2005, 07:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
coyotemorgan Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 147	I'm having my amp "tuned-up" right now. He didn't think that the hiss was unusual but I passed on info about defective plate resistors in the preamp stage and changing "the 100k 1/2 watt to 100k 1 watt which should decrease the hiss factor quite a bit"...some info I picked up from another site. My amp tech looked over the amp and thought it was generally in pretty good shape. I had the bright cap removed. The previous owner had hooked up reverb to the clean channel, which seems like a good idea. He also mentioned the mod for the vibrato glitch. The original caps were in it and though working fine the tech suggested I change the old Mallory filter caps for new ones, given they could malfunction (through age) at any time. He's going to do the Blackface mod, and check all the wiring, etc. Hey, jjmantele, why'd you change the original (non-filter) caps to blues? Same reason I changed mine?

April 15th, 2005, 10:56 AM	#19 (permalink)
PSWoods Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 205	Sorry - I didn't read the whole thread, but has anyone mentioned a DRRI? They really are good, and for about the same money, with a warranty. IMHO they have the real DR mojovibemagicsparkle. ...forgot to mention - Traynor YGM3 is a 1:1 knockoff of an old Deluxe - PTP wired and everything. They still go for <= $500 on eBay. Difft. cosmetics, obviously, but that's it.