Which EL34 most like a 6L6 for bluesy feel?

[coyotemorgan]

I just got a Traynor 50W amp and I have to say it's about as good a rock amp as you could find for under a $1000. That said, I'd like a little more of a bluesier tone at times, and I'm thinking different power tubes might make the difference. Anyone have any suggestions for a good power tube substitution for a bluesier feel? The amp comes with EH power tubes.

[Mik]

Would a change of power tubes change anything signifcantly in "feel"? The "blusiest" feel of fixed bias amps I've played have been those with a big enough voltage drop in the tube rectifier to create enough bluesy sag (eg: 5U4GB in a BFSR).

Or, just overdrive the heck out of the power tubes.

Mik

[JohnnyAtomic]

i may not understand what you mean by blusier tone. 6L6 are cleaner less mid. EL34 more upper mid and more aggressive sounding.

all that being said. the US made 6CA7 are the most like a 6L6 in tone. they are hard to find and usually expensive. they are my favorite choice in old music man amps. plus they are really rugged. sylvanias are especially good but i've used the phillips and GE with excellent results. good luck finding 'em though.
johnny atomic

[Doc]

I think the request is for which EL34 has the best 6l6 blues tone. I do not know that one. I use El34B's or whatever they are in my 2 el34 amps. One (Genz Benz) does a great blues tone, the other (X100B) does a good clean but real nice rock tone. So, it may be more the amp. Also, you may find that the preamps voice it a bit more in many ways.

Dale

[Flipped Mustang]

I've found the EH tubes to be "less warm" than other EL34's I've tried in my amps. The JJ's I've tried have been on the warm/thick side so you might want to give them a try if that's what you're looking for.

[lenny]

i think i tried one of those the other day. it was a blue, 1X12 i believe, and had a great marshall type rock and roll sound.
the guy who works there was all psyched and brought it up, as they just had gotten it in stock

[tlpruitt]

As long as the plate voltage is less than 500V and you can adjust the bias into an acceptable range then you can replace the EL34's with 6L6's in that amp.

-Tim

[NTC]

The first question is, WHICH Traynor "50W" amp did you buy? A YBA-1? A YBA-1A? One of the guitar models (I am not familiar with the model numbers)? The new Traynor model? I am VERY familiar with YBA-1's - I have three.


There are at least 3 variations, not counting the YBA-1A models. YBA-1A's have about 540V on the plates and usually have a fan in the side of the amp. They are apparently more like 80W and probably SHOULD use 6CA7's or 6550s. The earliest YBA-1s have a tube rectifier and HUGE transformers - and I have never seen one in person. THe late 60's -early 70's model has a solid-state rectifier and very large (not HUGE) iron. The middle 70's models have the "Rubber-baby-buggy-bumper" case with a flip-top that makes working on them a breeze. They have no Choke and a relatively small output transfomer. The YBA-1's are all based on the 5F6-A bassman, though they diverge quite a bit as time goes on. I have one mid-70's model where they kind of "Boogie-ized" the preamp. All have about 440V on the plates - close the the Bassman value.

I have taken my mid-70's model amp and modified it to have a 75 ohm (possibly 100 ohm) resistor in series with the rectifier diodes to simulate tube rectifier sag. I changed the screen resistors to two 470 ohm resistors like a Fender, though this really isn't necessary - the way Traynor did it with one resistor is electrically equivalent. I added an adjustable bias circuit and then set the amp up with Philips 6L6WGB's. I re-did the preamp to be like a 5F6A Bassman: 1meg pots instead of 500K, changed the "Boogie" section of the preamp back to a cathode follower, Bassman values in the tone stack, preamp power in series with the power amp power instead of separate. Of the three YBA-1's I have, this is the one I use the most - it just has the sweetest sound.

SO, to answer your original question, I would skip the EL34s all together and have the amp set up for 6L6's. The 6CA7 will get you a 6L6-like sound, though your power will be higher. By the way, I prefer the 6CA7 to the EL34 in this amp when it is used for bass, as originally intended. Also, make sure the electrolytic caps are replaced - that was the biggest problem with my first YBA-1 before I knew how to work on amps.


Mark Knapp

[coyotemorgan]

Hey NTC, you sure have a lot of skill with amps that I don't and since I just bought this amp I think I'll return it rather than mod it. The one I bought is the new, blue YCV50, which comes with EL34's. Past experience has led me to believe differnt brands of power tubes can make a major difference, but few posters here think that I can get that deeper softer sound with EL34's. As it turns out it's not the bass I'm having problems with, it's the harsh upper end. It's not very clean to my ear and the harder I strum or pick the harsher it gets. I put a Mullard into V1 and while this made the bottom and mids better, smoother, more articulate, it made the harshness of the upper registers worse! Basically, this is not the right amp for me, whether it's the EL34's or not. Maybe at louder volumes it would work out, but I play at home a lot. I know they have a 6L6 model, the YCV40(W), but I found its tone quite artificial as well.

[mmahoney]

the Traynor was not what you're looking for ... you seemed to like it a lot at first.

I'm toying with the idea of EL34's in my CV40, which is possible due to the Traynor design ... only a bias change is required.

but a lot of amps will get you that blues type tone you're trying to get, including some EL34 based amps ... much is in the brand of tubes, the amp settings, and the pickup type.

and let's not kid ourselves ... most any amp sounds and feels a lot better when played loud ... and that's not too easy to do with 50 watts in most venues.

a lower wattage 6V6 or EL84 based amp will break up much sooner than a 6L6 amp, and if you can find one with a tube rectifier that will give you the sag compression as well ... great for your blues.

good luck in your quest,

Mike

[Chris S.]

Ahhh... there's one of the usernames that did get changed. ;-) Mike, if you'll email Paul at webmaster@tdpri.com, he should be able to fix it for you. Thx, CS

[mmahoney]

I did not notice my username had changed ... I'll get the webmaster to change.

Mike