Marshall 1987x too loud? any alternative?

[FuZZBoY]

Hi,

I'm thinking about getting a used Marshall 1987x for a nice price (800 euros with a new tranformer), I haven't try it yet but I thnik I'll love the sound.
The problem is I'm afraid it will be way too loud even for rehearsals and small/medium gigs. My rehearsal room is not that big, and I won't play stadiums soon

I've just sold a Marshall JVM combo, and I'm glad I did! I've bought a class 5 head which sounds and feel REALLY great, but not loud enought for my band.
So basically I'm looking for a "plexi" sound, but loud as I can dimed it for natural od, but not too loud...

I was thinking of the Marshall 2061x or the JTM 45.

What do you think?

I play my own songs punk/blues style (white stripes to give you an idea) with a G&L Asat classic (telecaster...)

[Jelle]

Go for a post phase inverter master volume (ppimv); I put one (rich mod) in my 1987x when I had one and it was much better than the attenuators I tried. Sounded good at bedroom volumes as well and only costs a few bucks in parts.

[Reif]

1987x is a very loud amp. I also have a ppimv master volume on mine and recommend that. I've got significant experience with the amps you mentioned and for what I do, and for the way I like to hear things, I think the 1987x is way the best, so trying to deal with the volume issue is worth it IMO. I should mention that mine has been modded so that it is restored to be more like an original, has replaced trannies, etc.

[FuZZBoY]

Thanks guy, the ppimv seems to be he ticket for me.
I've discoverd this too : http://metroamp.com/store/index.php?...bcvl4eqmujtjv1

It seems like an improved ppimv, looks good :)

Maybe you're right I'll have to deal with the volume but getting real good tone. I'm afraid the 2061x would be not as powerful sounding

[Wally]

The MV will get you more preamp distortion at a lower output level. IF that suits you, then that is a solution. A JMP or early JCM 800 seires MD. 2204 or the combo version of that amp would be of interest to you if you go for the MV alternative and want to have an 'original' Marshall that does what you want.
IF you are looking for power tube 'heat', then the MV is not an answer. There are only a few recourses if you are set on the Marshall thing.....less efficient speakers and/or an attenuator. OR....I have never heard of this being done with a Marshall, but one might be able to try some 6V6's in such an amp. ONe would have to pay attention to the speaker impedance, though.



Since you haven't tried the 1987X out yet, all of this is based on what you think the amp will do for you, though. Feedback on what you find, s'il vous plait?

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Wally

IF you are looking for power tube 'heat', then the MV is not an answer. There are only a few recourses if you are set on the Marshall thing.....less efficient speakers and/or an attenuator. OR....I have never heard of this being done with a Marshall, but one might be able to try some 6V6's in such an amp. ONe would have to pay attention to the speaker impedance, though.

It's not a crushingly loud amp if you use its clean tone. Crank it into distortion, that's another story.

The supply voltage is on the high side for 6V6s, stock. The usual answer is "use JJs" but a certain supply voltage resulst in a certain volume. High voltage equals loud. Thats why my neighbor David Zimmerman builds Maven Peel amps. He uses a patented continuously variable power supply. VVR is the cheap seats version. People like VVR because it's cheap but comparing VVR to a Maven Peel is like the difference between an SR-71 and my brother's old Cessna.

The trick IMO is a transformer swap to accomodate 6V6s. Lose 100v at the power supply. Then swap to 6V6s. No added parts make it dead reliable. If you want even less screwing around cathode bias it while you're at it.

You will be able to dime your modded Marshall anywhere.

[FuZZBoY]

Since you haven't tried the 1987X out yet, all of this is based on what you think the amp will do for you, though. Feedback on what you find, s'il vous plait?

Tout à fait mon cher :)
I mean of course!

The MV will get you more preamp distortion at a lower output level. IF that suits you, then that is a solution. A JMP or early JCM 800 seires MD. 2204 or the combo version of that amp would be of interest to you if you go for the MV alternative and want to have an 'original' Marshall that does what you want.
IF you are looking for power tube 'heat', then the MV is not an answer. There are only a few recourses if you are set on the Marshall thing.....less efficient speakers and/or an attenuator. OR....I have never heard of this being done with a Marshall, but one might be able to try some 6V6's in such an amp. ONe would have to pay attention to the speaker impedance, though.

I think that would be the cheapest solution, so when I won't be able to crank it I can use the MV : at home, on small clubs etc as the sound with the MV dimed is the same as stock.
An attenuator is another and more expensive alternative.
I heard about a mod to put el84 instead of el34, but I better buy the 2061x in this case...
I have a nice deal for a used head which is still on maintenance with a new OT.
So I think I'll go for it.
I've think about the jcm 800 2203, but I don't need a 100w amp, neither that much gain...

[FuZZBoY]

Originally Posted by muchxs

It's not a crushingly loud amp if you use its clean tone. Crank it into distortion, that's another story.

The supply voltage is on the high side for 6V6s, stock. The usual answer is "use JJs" but a certain supply voltage resulst in a certain volume. High voltage equals loud. Thats why my neighbor David Zimmerman builds Maven Peel amps. He uses a patented continuously variable power supply. VVR is the cheap seats version. People like VVR because it's cheap but comparing VVR to a Maven Peel is like the difference between an SR-71 and my brother's old Cessna.

The trick IMO is a transformer swap to accomodate 6V6s. Lose 100v at the power supply. Then swap to 6V6s. No added parts make it dead reliable. If you want even less screwing around cathode bias it while you're at it.

You will be able to dime your modded Marshall anywhere.

If it's to mod it that much, I prefer to buy a 2061x head...

[Wally]

Or...simply let someone like Muchxs build you something like a 2 X 6V6 amp based on the 5F6A with lower voltages to the plates???? USE a multi-tap OT so that different cabs could be used to increase air movement when needed?

[BobbyZ]

I messed around with 6v6s in a 74 1987 what I found was it was still loud. The only master volume I tried is the one with a 1 meg pot just because it's only two wires and you don't change anything on the board. If you like preamp distortion (I don't) it works.
I ended up just keeping it stock and using it when I can.
Also Marshall voltages changed over the years. Mine was low enough that I didn't worry about plugging in some of the new Tung Sol 6v6s.

[DrewB]

I had a 1987X that I shouldn't have sold, and I installed the "Rich" PPI MV in it. It worked. However, it changed the tone of the amp. It was much more mid-heavy and the highs and lows were attenuated. I left it in for a year and then returned it to stock and got the great sound back. I bought a Dr. Z Airbrake and kept the tone with better control over the volume. I've tried other PPI MVs in Marshalls and haven't liked any of them. To my ears, it's worth spending the extra money on a sonically-transparent attenuator (the Dr. Z and THD attenuators are both particularly good with the 1987X). If you're attenuating way down to play at non-guitarist-friendly volumes, your amp will sound less like itself because the speakers will react differently. Lower-sensitivity speakers and a good attenuator are a good approach as they'll work together to rein the volume in.

[Wally]

Yes, it is hard to reduce volume much just by cutting output power in half, isn't it? 1/10 of the wattage will equal about half of the volume of the larger amp through the same speakers, won't it?
I have a little 12-watt 6G2 Princeton that does that killer growling OD when maxxed....and cleans up with pick attack adustment. And.....it is loud! IT is running through a Weber BLue Pup ceramic. I have a feeling that a less efficient speaker would tame it....if that were the goal. I like it the way it is.
There just really isn't anything better than having an amp for every occassion, is there? OR.....one can build a line out off of a speaker for a 5 watt amp and/or mic it and thereby achieve whatever FOH volume is needed for whatever venue. There are little 5-watt Champs sitting on the biggest stages around the world for soem certain applications. Joe Walsh travels with a small array of low wattage amps to play arenas. doesn't Keith Richards have a Tweed Champ on-line for certain sounds on the huge stages that the Stones play? I have put a line out in a Tweed Champ for a fellow who played the largest dance hall in the world...Billy bob's in Ft. Worth....many times with that 5-watts.

[marshman]

The most effective way to reduce volume is to find a lower-efficiency speaker, though as I recall the stock speaker installed as stock was pretty low-rated unit to begin with. Also, it's a totally-reversible modification.

I have an 18-watt homebrew that is a really nice volume level, though I don't gig it.

[FuZZBoY]

I have a 5w Marshall as I said above, the class 5 head. Love the tone but not loud enought if it's not micked. I want a louder amp, but I don't realize how loud the 1987x is.
I was at 4/10 on the MV of my 50w JVM...

[FuZZBoY]

The most effective way to reduce volume is to find a lower-efficiency speaker, though as I recall the stock speaker installed as stock was pretty low-rated unit to begin with. Also, it's a totally-reversible modification.

I have an 18-watt homebrew that is a really nice volume level, though I don't gig it.

You mean greenbacks? I was thinking about getting a Marshall 1960ax loaded with 4 greenback so it's a 100w cab. I already have an Orange PPC212 with 2 v30 so this one's 120w.

Why don't you gig your 18w?

I can also try OD or boost pedals to have od at lower volume

[marshman]

I don't gig my 18 because I'm a bass player. Combine that with the nasty hum I've not been able to trace out of my homebrew 18 and it only sees home jamming-type work. But booooy, does it sound nice!

[cg73cmc]

The 1987 is an incredible amp - if you can get one then just use ear plugs - whatever, just deal with the volume any possible way you can!

[FuZZBoY]

Thanks, I'm gonna buy it on saturday, just for christmas :)
I don't plan to use it at home, so I will use earplugs anyway.
Maybe it won't be too loud...

[DrewB]

Originally Posted by FuZZBoY

Maybe it won't be too loud...

Wishful thinking, dude! You're gonna love it!

[emanym]

I think the best solution is to just use the right amp for the job.I use the 1987x for big or outdoor gigs,the 18 watter for most bar gigs & the Class 5 to practice at home.