Good/Best speaker for a tweed Deluxe (Clark) amp?

gil · February 25th, 2005, 04:17 AM

I've had a Clark Beaufort for a few years, and I've never been as blown away by it as other people seem to be with tweed Deluxe-type amps. I'm mainly talking about its overdriven sounds, which I thought this thing was famous for. They sound kind of ratty to me.

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the Celestion Blue that I upgraded it to when I ordered it (could I be overdriving the speaker?).

Should I try an American-type speaker? I'm mean, that's what these amps came with back in the day, right? If American-type, what do you recommend for this amp?

Also, I've heard a lot of good things about Tone Tubbys, but aren't they based on the Celestion Blue, i.e., a British speaker?

What do you have in your tweed Deluxe?

Thanks,
gil

gls500 · February 25th, 2005, 10:01 AM

I have a Weber P12R in mine, and I love it. It has an absolutely angelic sounding clean tone, and when it starts to break up it really barks and starts sounding mean. It is a bit of a rough sounding distortion with a mix of power tube and speaker distortion, but that's what I like it for. If I ever need a smoother sounding distortion with it, I just hook it up to an external speaker cab.

Rick S · February 25th, 2005, 08:28 PM

It's normal for the overdrive character of this amp to be a bit loose and raunchy. Best overdrive performance comes in the almost clean to moderate bluesy overdrive area. It's something that a lot of people love, but I'm afraid if you are needing a tight/smooth high gain, this isn't your amp.

My guys seem to think the Eminence Red Fang is the hip thing for the 5E3 these days, and I tend to agree. I certainly wouldn't recommend that you buy one though, there just isn't a lot of difference in the Fang and the Blue. The Blue and clones thereof are about as smooth as it gets in a 5E3.

Maybe you should try some of the Voxy clone amps, Matchless, Top Hat, Bad kitty, etc.

gil · February 26th, 2005, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick S

Maybe you should try some of the Voxy clone amps, Matchless, Top Hat, Bad kitty, etc.

That's funny. I actually have three of the above-mentioned amps, i.e., Matchless DC30, Bad Cat Cub II (might be my favorite), and AC30RI. Yes, I do LOVE that sound. Maybe that's my problem with the Deluxe. But, and don't laugh, I've always loved the tweed Deluxe model (mainly when overdriven) on my POD. That actually played a pretty good part in my decision to get a tweed Deluxe clone. It's one of my favorite tones on my POD. It's so old school and funky sounding. Maybe I need to pull out the ol' POD again, to refresh my memory, and see if I can get a similar sound out of my Beaufort.

Thanks for the input, Guys.

gil

scotabilly · February 26th, 2005, 11:27 AM

Gil, I have a 5E3 clone also, and it sounds great with the early Weber "P12N" that it came with. The seller noted that it originally had an Eminence speaker, so I tried the Eminence made "Fender Special Design" speaker in my Blues Junior, and you know, it sounded just as good and maybe a little better. Clearer high end, and nice overdrive, not too raggedy. The best sound I get is between 9-10 vol.

gil · February 26th, 2005, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotabilly

Gil, I have a 5E3 clone also, and it sounds great with the early Weber "P12N" that it came with. The seller noted that it originally had an Eminence speaker, so I tried the Eminence made "Fender Special Design" speaker in my Blues Junior, and you know, it sounded just as good and maybe a little better. Clearer high end, and nice overdrive, not too raggedy.

So, how do you think a Celestion Blue compares to those speakers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotabilly

The best sound I get is between 9-10 vol.

I'll try your settings. Which input are you using? Where do you set the other channel's volume? How about the tone knob? Safe to assume that we're talking about a Tele here? I assume you use your guitar's volume control quite a bit for cleaner sounds (at 9-10 vol on the 5E3)?

Thanks,
gil

scotabilly · February 27th, 2005, 12:44 AM

"So, how do you think a Celestion Blue compares to those speakers?"

I haven't tried a Celestion Blue, actually.

"I'll try your settings. Which input are you using? Where do you set the other channel's volume? How about the tone knob? Safe to assume that we're talking about a Tele here? I assume you use your guitar's volume control quite a bit for cleaner sounds (at 9-10 vol on the 5E3)? "

I use the No. 1 input on the Bright channel. I noticed that if I raise the Normal channel volume, it thickens up the sound up to about 8-9, then it starts to cut volume. Weird, huh? On the tone knob, I notice from about 7 on up, it adds gain along with the treble. For cleaner sounds I just back the amp down to about 5-6. The "9-10" reference point was the best distorted sound. I'm still trying to figure out about backing off the Tele's volume, because I feel like it makes the guitar sound thin. Mostly I just soften my picking a little. Hope this info helps you a little...

telel6s · February 27th, 2005, 09:12 AM

I just got a Mission Amps 5E3 in January, so my experience is a little limited. It came with a Weber P12Q speaker. The combination of amp/speaker punches really well playing with a band. But, I have to trust myself and amp more because I don't hear it as well as I did my Super Reverb (we don't mic amps and have to keep up with a medium level drummer).

The amp/speaker has nice mid-range that, according to people listening in the bar, fits in real well with the band mix. On the other hand, I don't see the 5E3 becoming my favorite amp for playing on my own. In that context, it does seem a bit too rough around the edges.

What I'm getting to, gil, is have you played your amp just on its own or with a band? Might make a difference.

Joe

PS: For what it's worth, I'm also building a second combo cabinet that will hold a 15" Weber Chicago -- but that has as much to do with playing with wood and powertools as it does playing guitar.

stevieboy · February 27th, 2005, 11:22 AM

Have you tried any ceramic speakers? Maybe one of those would be less "ratty" in that amp, less speaker distorion, more from the amp?

scotabilly · February 27th, 2005, 11:36 AM

stevieboy, I think you might be onto something with the ceramic speaker idea. That's probably why my Fender/Eminence speaker sounded better than the Weber P12N. In fact, I put an Eminence Legend Alnico in the Blues Junior, but it has a little raspiness when distorted that the stock speaker didn't.

BTW, I changed the stock V1 preamp tube. My amp came with a 12AY7, and I swapped it for a 12AX7. I like the 12AX7 better for now. So it might be worthwhile for any of you folks to compare which tube you like best in that V1 spot. Overall though, I'm real happy with this amp, and how it sounds with my '52 RI, but I haven't tried it in a band situation yet.

Paul in Colorado · February 27th, 2005, 10:01 PM

Dave Beegle, our local guitar hero has an original Tweed Deluxe that he used at a Tsunami Benefit a few weeks back. It sounded awesome. It has the original blue label Jensen in it, so you might try the closest Weber speaker to an old Jensen.
I watched a video yesterday of Neil Young at Red Rocks and that Tweed Deluxe of his sure sounds good with a Tele. I'm sure there are a few things in the signal path between the guitar and amp though.

stevieboy · February 27th, 2005, 10:25 PM

I just checked the Fender Amp Field Guide http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/ which says that tweed deluxes came with P12R's or P12Q's

stevedenver · March 1st, 2005, 02:17 PM

hard to say-

a celestion blue is the top of the heap-

i have the mission 5E3 using the weber blue dog as mentioned by some others above-i love it-it has a certain chime and harmonics i really love

i use mine with both a tele and Les Paul- while not a speaker fault, the LP can make the speaker a bit bass-flabby -there is a simple circuit mod to tighten this up-it is inherent in a straight 5E3 design

i love my weber in this amp-but unless im playing the tele at "2" on the amp-i dont expect this amp to be clean-but they do sound great clean with a bit of verb or delay-especially with a larger cab

as mentioned they do mix and cut really well-and you might consider a second 12" cab - or even a larger 2x12 cab -which i use with a mix of celestion g12h30 and vintage 30

gil · March 2nd, 2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevedenver

hard to say-
a celestion blue is the top of the heap-

Yeah, that's what I thought at the time of purchase, and probably still think. I remember reading a 12" speaker shootout in GP some time ago, and they said that the Blue was one of the best (if not THE best) guitar speakers around.

I'm thinking that a different speaker isn't going to give me what I'm looking for (and I'm already getting in my Cub II). I think that a 5E3 just isn't the amp for me, and it's time to finally let her go. You live and learn, right?

BTW, telel6s, I have played my Beaufort with a band a few times. It always feels/sounds good when it's hitting the back of my legs, and my ears are five feet above the speaker. However, if I hear it through the monitors, or angle it back to hear it better, I realize that the audience is hearing something very different than what I'm "hearing". Then my night starts to go downhill, as I try to get a tone that I never really had (I just thought that I had it).

Anyway, thanks for all the advice/input, Guys. I think that I needed someone to tell me what Rick S said, i.e., that my amp is supposed to sound the way it does, and that it just may not be for me. I'll stick with Vox-types for now.

thanks again,
gil

February 25th, 2005, 04:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
gil TDPRI Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 19	Good/Best speaker for a tweed Deluxe (Clark) amp? I've had a Clark Beaufort for a few years, and I've never been as blown away by it as other people seem to be with tweed Deluxe-type amps. I'm mainly talking about its overdriven sounds, which I thought this thing was famous for. They sound kind of ratty to me. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the Celestion Blue that I upgraded it to when I ordered it (could I be overdriving the speaker?). Should I try an American-type speaker? I'm mean, that's what these amps came with back in the day, right? If American-type, what do you recommend for this amp? Also, I've heard a lot of good things about Tone Tubbys, but aren't they based on the Celestion Blue, i.e., a British speaker? What do you have in your tweed Deluxe? Thanks, gil

February 26th, 2005, 11:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
scotabilly TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NJ USA Posts: 78	Gil, I have a 5E3 clone also, and it sounds great with the early Weber "P12N" that it came with. The seller noted that it originally had an Eminence speaker, so I tried the Eminence made "Fender Special Design" speaker in my Blues Junior, and you know, it sounded just as good and maybe a little better. Clearer high end, and nice overdrive, not too raggedy. The best sound I get is between 9-10 vol. __________________ Scott Murphy King Kerosene, NJ Rockabilly

February 27th, 2005, 12:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
scotabilly TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NJ USA Posts: 78	"So, how do you think a Celestion Blue compares to those speakers?" I haven't tried a Celestion Blue, actually. "I'll try your settings. Which input are you using? Where do you set the other channel's volume? How about the tone knob? Safe to assume that we're talking about a Tele here? I assume you use your guitar's volume control quite a bit for cleaner sounds (at 9-10 vol on the 5E3)? " I use the No. 1 input on the Bright channel. I noticed that if I raise the Normal channel volume, it thickens up the sound up to about 8-9, then it starts to cut volume. Weird, huh? On the tone knob, I notice from about 7 on up, it adds gain along with the treble. For cleaner sounds I just back the amp down to about 5-6. The "9-10" reference point was the best distorted sound. I'm still trying to figure out about backing off the Tele's volume, because I feel like it makes the guitar sound thin. Mostly I just soften my picking a little. Hope this info helps you a little... __________________ Scott Murphy King Kerosene, NJ Rockabilly

February 27th, 2005, 09:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
telel6s Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,180 80 Photos	P12Q in a Mission 5E3 I just got a Mission Amps 5E3 in January, so my experience is a little limited. It came with a Weber P12Q speaker. The combination of amp/speaker punches really well playing with a band. But, I have to trust myself and amp more because I don't hear it as well as I did my Super Reverb (we don't mic amps and have to keep up with a medium level drummer). The amp/speaker has nice mid-range that, according to people listening in the bar, fits in real well with the band mix. On the other hand, I don't see the 5E3 becoming my favorite amp for playing on my own. In that context, it does seem a bit too rough around the edges. What I'm getting to, gil, is have you played your amp just on its own or with a band? Might make a difference. Joe PS: For what it's worth, I'm also building a second combo cabinet that will hold a 15" Weber Chicago -- but that has as much to do with playing with wood and powertools as it does playing guitar. __________________ Mama always said, "A little tone is good for the soul."

February 27th, 2005, 11:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
stevieboy Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: the valley Age: 57 Posts: 2,503 6 Photos	Have you tried any ceramic speakers? Maybe one of those would be less "ratty" in that amp, less speaker distorion, more from the amp? __________________ "One of the best bands ever. These guys were such perfectionist"--Youtube user comment

February 25th, 2005, 10:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
gls500 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 894	I have a Weber P12R in mine, and I love it. It has an absolutely angelic sounding clean tone, and when it starts to break up it really barks and starts sounding mean. It is a bit of a rough sounding distortion with a mix of power tube and speaker distortion, but that's what I like it for. If I ever need a smoother sounding distortion with it, I just hook it up to an external speaker cab.

February 25th, 2005, 08:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Rick S Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 494	It's normal for the overdrive character of this amp to be a bit loose and raunchy. Best overdrive performance comes in the almost clean to moderate bluesy overdrive area. It's something that a lot of people love, but I'm afraid if you are needing a tight/smooth high gain, this isn't your amp. My guys seem to think the Eminence Red Fang is the hip thing for the 5E3 these days, and I tend to agree. I certainly wouldn't recommend that you buy one though, there just isn't a lot of difference in the Fang and the Blue. The Blue and clones thereof are about as smooth as it gets in a 5E3. Maybe you should try some of the Voxy clone amps, Matchless, Top Hat, Bad kitty, etc.

February 27th, 2005, 11:36 AM	#10 (permalink)
scotabilly TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NJ USA Posts: 78	stevieboy, I think you might be onto something with the ceramic speaker idea. That's probably why my Fender/Eminence speaker sounded better than the Weber P12N. In fact, I put an Eminence Legend Alnico in the Blues Junior, but it has a little raspiness when distorted that the stock speaker didn't. BTW, I changed the stock V1 preamp tube. My amp came with a 12AY7, and I swapped it for a 12AX7. I like the 12AX7 better for now. So it might be worthwhile for any of you folks to compare which tube you like best in that V1 spot. Overall though, I'm real happy with this amp, and how it sounds with my '52 RI, but I haven't tried it in a band situation yet. __________________ Scott Murphy King Kerosene, NJ Rockabilly

February 27th, 2005, 10:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 56 Posts: 4,448 3 Photos	Dave Beegle, our local guitar hero has an original Tweed Deluxe that he used at a Tsunami Benefit a few weeks back. It sounded awesome. It has the original blue label Jensen in it, so you might try the closest Weber speaker to an old Jensen. I watched a video yesterday of Neil Young at Red Rocks and that Tweed Deluxe of his sure sounds good with a Tele. I'm sure there are a few things in the signal path between the guitar and amp though.

February 27th, 2005, 10:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
stevieboy Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: the valley Age: 57 Posts: 2,503 6 Photos	I just checked the Fender Amp Field Guide http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/ which says that tweed deluxes came with P12R's or P12Q's __________________ "One of the best bands ever. These guys were such perfectionist"--Youtube user comment

March 1st, 2005, 02:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
stevedenver Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: the mile high city Posts: 1,206 14 Photos	hard to say- a celestion blue is the top of the heap- i have the mission 5E3 using the weber blue dog as mentioned by some others above-i love it-it has a certain chime and harmonics i really love i use mine with both a tele and Les Paul- while not a speaker fault, the LP can make the speaker a bit bass-flabby -there is a simple circuit mod to tighten this up-it is inherent in a straight 5E3 design i love my weber in this amp-but unless im playing the tele at "2" on the amp-i dont expect this amp to be clean-but they do sound great clean with a bit of verb or delay-especially with a larger cab as mentioned they do mix and cut really well-and you might consider a second 12" cab - or even a larger 2x12 cab -which i use with a mix of celestion g12h30 and vintage 30 __________________ Im really a Les Paul guy at heart, but .....