P12QL in my SFDR

yegbert · February 23rd, 2005, 11:04 PM

I had been debating whether to replace my drip panel SFDR's old Fender-labeled speaker, and if so what to put in its place. Weber alnicos seem to be highly favored on TDPRI, but Ted Weber guided me towards a ceramic based speaker, specifically a 25 watt 12F150.

But the amp was due for a recap and had some occasional bursts of static-like noise, so I decided to wait on getting a new speaker until I got the other problems fixed. I had the amp recapped, retubed, functionally blackfaced and fitted with a grounded power cord. After that the amp sounded so much better all around I gave myself a few weeks to settle in with the change.

Then I finally decided it was somewhat flabby on the bass.

I had bought a Hoffman hi-fi about 15 years ago at a yard sale, functional except for the turntable, for $75. It's a blonde 50s piece of furniture up on legs like the TVs from that era, with a mono tube amp, tuner and turntable. It had quit functioning correctly a couple of years ago, and my wife wanted it gone but I couldn't bear to part with it. I at least wanted to sort out the tubes. (It has a loud hum once the tubes warm up.)

Then I got to looking at the speakers. Lo and behold, the large speaker in the cabinet was a P12QL. It seems to be in perfect working order. I'm guessing the model number makes it a Jensen, but it's not labeled Jensen and I haven't figured out what the "L" on the end of the model number means.

This speaker is now in my SFDR and I can't imagine a better sounding speaker for this amp, for my needs.

fontaine · February 25th, 2005, 12:12 AM

Cool speaker! Its even got the bell cover tab slots. The
totally smooth cone is interesting also.
As to the "l" designation i do not know. I do remember
seeing that info somewhere on the web just can't tell
you where.

lenny · February 25th, 2005, 08:22 AM

that's a jensen. see the first code that starts with "220"... that means its jensen

Tim Swartz · February 25th, 2005, 11:07 AM

That does sound like a great match. You may blow it, but enjoy it while you can and get it fixed when it blows (I know a guy that does fantastic work on these old Jensens).

B3Nut · February 25th, 2005, 02:34 PM

The L indicates the impedance. One L for 8 ohms, two L's for 16. Example, from the world of 15's for Leslie cabinets (old Jensens are the best Leslie drivers):

P15L - AlNiCo 8 ohm
P15LL - AlNiCo 16 ohm (THE gold standard for permanent-magnet Leslie bass drivers)

F15LL - field coil 16 ohm, used in early Leslies.

Had that speaker said P12QLL, it would have been a 16 ohm driver.

Nice score, P12Q's were common in some Hammond tone cabinets, which organ techs value as a source for free Jensens to sell to guitar players for profit. :D

TP

Tim Swartz · February 25th, 2005, 05:10 PM

From what I understand the "L" in a P15L indicates magnet size. As the letters descend the magnet size increases...I believe they start with "T" which is a tiny magnet and go through S, R, Q, P, N, M, L; It seems like there is also a K?... I had a P12L in a 1960 single 12" Bassman cab and it was wonderful sounding speaker with a huge chunk of alnico about 5" diameter by 3" deep.

yegbert · February 25th, 2005, 07:44 PM

From Weber's explaination of the Jensen codes:

The first character indicates the type of magnet as either alnico ("P") or ceramic ("C").

The next one or two characters indicate the speaker diameter.

The next character indicates the diameter of the voice coil. R is 1", Q is 1-1/4", N is 1-1/2".

I don't have anything to tell me what an additional character at the end would indicate, "L" in my case.

Based on that, mine is alnico magnet, 12" diameter overall, 1-1/4" voice coil.

jhundt · February 27th, 2005, 01:13 PM

Many years ago, a neighbor was discarding an old console stereo. I ripped it open and discovered two P12QL speakers. Put one in my Princeton Reverb, and it sounds fantastic!

I emailed a well-known "boutique" speaker manufacturer to ask about the L designation. (Can't remember for sure, was it a guy called Weber? Not the Tube Amp Book guy, though, this guy is a speaker specialist) He said he didn't know what the L stood for and had never found any information about this. He thought that it might have been indicated a low-frequency speaker for use in a hi-fi w/ additional high-frequency speakers. But he said this was pure speculation and really just a guess.

Whatever, it sounds great and the price was right - 2 old Jensen P12Q's for $0.00

MarkSimpson · March 3rd, 2005, 03:04 PM

:D

I just scored a 1959 P12QL on ebay last night; glad to hear these things are good! It's going to go into a `59 5E9-A Tremolux. Current speaker in there is a `55 P12Q reconed by WeberVST, but the Tremolux puts out a little too much for the speaker. I'm hoping that the ribbed cone and "L" designation will solve the problem.

jhundt · March 4th, 2005, 12:49 PM

how much does such a P12QL cost on ebay? If this is too personal you need not answer.

MarkSimpson · March 4th, 2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhundt

how much does such a P12QL cost on ebay? If this is too personal you need not answer.

$51 shipped here in the States. Keep in mind the one I found is ribbed cone, missing the bell cover, and has the "L" designation. But for the money it's a good deal.

yegbert · March 4th, 2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhundt

how much does such a P12QL cost on ebay? If this is too personal you need not answer.

I've been searching eBay for those and similar Jensens. I've only seen a couple of auctions in the last couple of weeks with P12Qs. The other one (not the one MarkSimpson won) was a matched pair that went for $200 USD.

February 23rd, 2005, 11:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
yegbert Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Clinton, Maryland (US) Age: 54 Posts: 4,989 88 Photos	P12QL in my SFDR I had been debating whether to replace my drip panel SFDR's old Fender-labeled speaker, and if so what to put in its place. Weber alnicos seem to be highly favored on TDPRI, but Ted Weber guided me towards a ceramic based speaker, specifically a 25 watt 12F150. But the amp was due for a recap and had some occasional bursts of static-like noise, so I decided to wait on getting a new speaker until I got the other problems fixed. I had the amp recapped, retubed, functionally blackfaced and fitted with a grounded power cord. After that the amp sounded so much better all around I gave myself a few weeks to settle in with the change. Then I finally decided it was somewhat flabby on the bass. I had bought a Hoffman hi-fi about 15 years ago at a yard sale, functional except for the turntable, for $75. It's a blonde 50s piece of furniture up on legs like the TVs from that era, with a mono tube amp, tuner and turntable. It had quit functioning correctly a couple of years ago, and my wife wanted it gone but I couldn't bear to part with it. I at least wanted to sort out the tubes. (It has a loud hum once the tubes warm up.) Then I got to looking at the speakers. Lo and behold, the large speaker in the cabinet was a P12QL. It seems to be in perfect working order. I'm guessing the model number makes it a Jensen, but it's not labeled Jensen and I haven't figured out what the "L" on the end of the model number means. This speaker is now in my SFDR and I can't imagine a better sounding speaker for this amp, for my needs.

February 25th, 2005, 11:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,904	That does sound like a great match. You may blow it, but enjoy it while you can and get it fixed when it blows (I know a guy that does fantastic work on these old Jensens). __________________

February 25th, 2005, 05:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,904	From what I understand the "L" in a P15L indicates magnet size. As the letters descend the magnet size increases...I believe they start with "T" which is a tiny magnet and go through S, R, Q, P, N, M, L; It seems like there is also a K?... I had a P12L in a 1960 single 12" Bassman cab and it was wonderful sounding speaker with a huge chunk of alnico about 5" diameter by 3" deep. __________________

February 25th, 2005, 07:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
yegbert Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Clinton, Maryland (US) Age: 54 Posts: 4,989 88 Photos	Weber decode From Weber's explaination of the Jensen codes: The first character indicates the type of magnet as either alnico ("P") or ceramic ("C"). The next one or two characters indicate the speaker diameter. The next character indicates the diameter of the voice coil. R is 1", Q is 1-1/4", N is 1-1/2". I don't have anything to tell me what an additional character at the end would indicate, "L" in my case. Based on that, mine is alnico magnet, 12" diameter overall, 1-1/4" voice coil.

February 27th, 2005, 01:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
jhundt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Age: 54 Posts: 3,127 9 Photos	My story exactly! Many years ago, a neighbor was discarding an old console stereo. I ripped it open and discovered two P12QL speakers. Put one in my Princeton Reverb, and it sounds fantastic! I emailed a well-known "boutique" speaker manufacturer to ask about the L designation. (Can't remember for sure, was it a guy called Weber? Not the Tube Amp Book guy, though, this guy is a speaker specialist) He said he didn't know what the L stood for and had never found any information about this. He thought that it might have been indicated a low-frequency speaker for use in a hi-fi w/ additional high-frequency speakers. But he said this was pure speculation and really just a guess. Whatever, it sounds great and the price was right - 2 old Jensen P12Q's for $0.00

February 25th, 2005, 12:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
fontaine Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 338	Cool speaker! Its even got the bell cover tab slots. The totally smooth cone is interesting also. As to the "l" designation i do not know. I do remember seeing that info somewhere on the web just can't tell you where.

February 25th, 2005, 08:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
lenny Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New Haven, CT. USA Posts: 3,219	that's a jensen. see the first code that starts with "220"... that means its jensen

February 25th, 2005, 02:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
B3Nut TDPRI Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 56	The L indicates the impedance. One L for 8 ohms, two L's for 16. Example, from the world of 15's for Leslie cabinets (old Jensens are the best Leslie drivers): P15L - AlNiCo 8 ohm P15LL - AlNiCo 16 ohm (THE gold standard for permanent-magnet Leslie bass drivers) F15LL - field coil 16 ohm, used in early Leslies. Had that speaker said P12QLL, it would have been a 16 ohm driver. Nice score, P12Q's were common in some Hammond tone cabinets, which organ techs value as a source for free Jensens to sell to guitar players for profit. :D TP

March 3rd, 2005, 03:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
MarkSimpson TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: near Philly Posts: 10	:D I just scored a 1959 P12QL on ebay last night; glad to hear these things are good! It's going to go into a `59 5E9-A Tremolux. Current speaker in there is a `55 P12Q reconed by WeberVST, but the Tremolux puts out a little too much for the speaker. I'm hoping that the ribbed cone and "L" designation will solve the problem.

March 4th, 2005, 12:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
jhundt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Age: 54 Posts: 3,127 9 Photos	May I ask... how much does such a P12QL cost on ebay? If this is too personal you need not answer.