I fell in LOVE with Fender tube Vibrato!

el_extranjero · February 8th, 2005, 07:19 PM

I went to GC for lunch today (The ALL NEW Guitar Center DIET! :) ) and plugged into a DRRI that was sitting there. I could not believe the depth that the vibrato added! I also played a Vibro King at another GC this weekend. I thought at that time that it was JUST the VK. NOW I realize that, yes, the VK is a great sounding amp, but the vibrato REALLY made a difference.

I'm NOT a big fan of reverb; I keep it in the 3 range or less usually, depending on if I'm playing a solidbody or a jazz box, so I had just assumed that vibrato was the same thing. NOT!!!

The vibrato really added a lot of depth and character to the sound, again down in the 3 to 4 range so it wasn't surf music.

I have a question for you guys though. As the volume goes up, the character changes. You need to back off on the reverb and bass for example. Does the vibrato continue to help the sound when you're at gig volume or is it less useful?

I'm very interested because I'm looking to buy an intermediate size amp that's more portable than my 85# PV C50, but is useable as a backup or primary gig amp. Hence, I'm thinking along the lines of DRRI, HRD, Custom VR, PV C30, etc. But if vibrato makes this much difference, I'm just going to have to narrow the list down to ONLY those amps with tube vibrato!

Opionions or comments?

KBR · February 8th, 2005, 07:44 PM

I Love Vibrato, I use a Diaz (Tremodillo) original one, only because it is close to Blackface trem, and My Allen Amps, don't have trem/vibrato. :evil: :evil: :evil:

David Barnett · February 8th, 2005, 08:23 PM

When I saw Richard Thompson w/band in 2000, he played through a brown Vibroverb reissue and never turned the tremolo off.

1612112 · February 8th, 2005, 08:58 PM

I'm addicted to. I love the way it occasionally takes away the front of the note. Also if you pick a picking paten and time it so the not is plucked in the "trough" you can get a hip hop/modern R'n'B guitar type thing going on as the note swells right behind the pluck of each note... cool. I might take up rapping too. Probably not.

El Capitan · February 8th, 2005, 09:20 PM

You should try Brown amp vibe......
Bigger amps only. Doesn't use a "trem roach" uses the tube for "harmonic vibrato" look at a 6G4-A schematic for ideas
I think Clark is selling an outboard trem/reverb unit with the Brown trem in it,and reverb... I would only like the Trem part though. So, I'll pass.

mk · February 9th, 2005, 12:24 AM

Yup, do try a brown trem sometime. The big ones have the harmonic vibrato, and the smaller (Vibrolux on down) models have a bias-vary trem that many feel is more musical and smoother than the BF optical roach. That scheme continued to be used in the BF/SF Princeton/Princeton Reverb, too. The Vibro Champ uses a phase-inverter bias trem that is incredibly powerful -- use a strong 12ax7 tube in there, and it will suck the air out of the room.

They're all a bit affected by volume -- the BF style likely least of all. When my brown Princeton or tweed Gibson are really cranked, the trem isn't as pronounced.

stephent2 · February 9th, 2005, 01:36 AM

I've been taking a Fulltone Supa Trem to the gig (Muddy and a 71 SFVR) and it's the s**t (sorry, words fail).

It's got a wide range of speed, one switch to double the pulse and another to switch between hard and soft pulses, plus rate and mix knobs, works great, not tube but with a tube amp, ain't bad. Right now it's the only pedal i use.

David Barnett · February 9th, 2005, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk

The Vibro Champ uses a phase-inverter bias trem that is incredibly powerful -- use a strong 12ax7 tube in there, and it will suck the air out of the room.

A Champ with a phase inverter???????

NTC · February 9th, 2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk

The Vibro Champ uses a phase-inverter bias trem that is incredibly powerful -- use a strong 12ax7 tube in there, and it will suck the air out of the room.

A Champ with a phase inverter???????

Actually, it is on the preamp stage that feeds the output tube. Definitely NOT a phase inverter, but in the same place as the PI in push-pull amps.

1612112 · February 9th, 2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk

Yup, do try a brown trem sometime. The big ones have the harmonic vibrato, and the smaller (Vibrolux on down) models have a bias-vary trem that many feel is more musical and smoother than the BF optical roach.

The BF Vverbs have the signal grounding out at the phase inverter (not a bias trem) and sounds very musical. Fender used that method from 64 onward as I understand it.
pjb

El Capitan · February 9th, 2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk

They're all a bit affected by volume -- the BF style likely least of all. When my brown Princeton or tweed Gibson are really cranked, the trem isn't as pronounced.

You ain't kidding.....
My 6G2A "takes awhile" to trem out when cranked. but it does sound good.
Another good name for it is....
"Bias Wiggle"
El

mk · February 9th, 2005, 09:17 PM

"Actually, it is on the preamp stage that feeds the output tube. Definitely NOT a phase inverter, but in the same place as the PI in push-pull amps."

Oops -- duh! Sory to spread lies....

;-)

Bias wiggle -- I like that. One of the (occasionally) useful things about the overloading of the bias-vary trems is its weakness: if you dig in the trem backs off, and then comes back in stronger when you're playing more quietly. That works for a lot of stuff.

jjmantele · February 9th, 2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk

"Actually, it is on the preamp stage that feeds the output tube. Definitely NOT a phase inverter, but in the same place as the PI in push-pull amps."

Oops -- duh! Sory to spread lies....

;-)

Bias wiggle -- I like that. One of the (occasionally) useful things about the overloading of the bias-vary trems is its weakness: if you dig in the trem backs off, and then comes back in stronger when you're playing more quietly. That works for a lot of stuff.

I have an amp with the bias vary and a VC. Both have that less-trem-when-maxed thing. When I have the VC in "tweed" mode there is no trem when cranked and strumming hard. The trem comes in as the volume drifts down. It's definitely a cool vibe. 8)

TT100 · February 10th, 2005, 01:25 AM

Deep reverb, or "Echo" as they called it and vibrato also. They can be found relatively inexpensively when compared to Fenders of the same vintage.

TT100

Tim Bowen · February 10th, 2005, 03:39 AM

I love the wiggle on the '63 brown Fender Deluxe. That's the fave.

Fulltone Supa-Trem has served me well on my acoustic-electric board for the last four years. But it's recently commenced to wigging out, so it's headed back to Mike for repair.

My next purchase will be the Toneczar Powerglide. Looks to be a deep box. 18V, lotsa headroom. Independently assignable channels, as to speed, as well as choice of "brownface" or "blackface" modes. And last but not least - ramping between channels, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh....

http://www.toneczareffects.com/sm-pedals-trem.htm

Area 51 trems look to be cool amp add-ons, but I haven't heard them.

http://area51tubeaudiodesigns.com/Me...ry_Code=cat001

Sunburst Island · February 10th, 2005, 01:07 PM

If you want NICE Vibrato...look no further than
http://monstereffects.net/

Honestly! Sweet, Sweet, Sweet.

tweedtone · February 10th, 2005, 02:59 PM

For the studio, I use a blonde '63 Bandmaster head - trem so juicy it's borders on Univibe territory.

For gigs, Voodoo Lab 4-knob Tremelo into a BFDR gets close enough for rock 'n' roll (and blues and jazz and country and ...)

February 8th, 2005, 07:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
el_extranjero Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: McKinney, TX Age: 49 Posts: 514	I fell in LOVE with Fender tube Vibrato! I went to GC for lunch today (The ALL NEW Guitar Center DIET! :) ) and plugged into a DRRI that was sitting there. I could not believe the depth that the vibrato added! I also played a Vibro King at another GC this weekend. I thought at that time that it was JUST the VK. NOW I realize that, yes, the VK is a great sounding amp, but the vibrato REALLY made a difference. I'm NOT a big fan of reverb; I keep it in the 3 range or less usually, depending on if I'm playing a solidbody or a jazz box, so I had just assumed that vibrato was the same thing. NOT!!! The vibrato really added a lot of depth and character to the sound, again down in the 3 to 4 range so it wasn't surf music. I have a question for you guys though. As the volume goes up, the character changes. You need to back off on the reverb and bass for example. Does the vibrato continue to help the sound when you're at gig volume or is it less useful? I'm very interested because I'm looking to buy an intermediate size amp that's more portable than my 85# PV C50, but is useable as a backup or primary gig amp. Hence, I'm thinking along the lines of DRRI, HRD, Custom VR, PV C30, etc. But if vibrato makes this much difference, I'm just going to have to narrow the list down to ONLY those amps with tube vibrato! Opionions or comments? __________________ El Extranjero de la Tierra Extraña ------------------------------------ Dorothy: "How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?" Scarecrow: "I don't know. But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?"

February 8th, 2005, 07:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
KBR Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 662 10 Photos	me, too! I Love Vibrato, I use a Diaz (Tremodillo) original one, only because it is close to Blackface trem, and My Allen Amps, don't have trem/vibrato. :evil: :evil: :evil: __________________ KBR http://home.earthlink.net/~blueray/

February 8th, 2005, 08:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
1612112 Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 229	OK that's me chipping in 2c I'm addicted to. I love the way it occasionally takes away the front of the note. Also if you pick a picking paten and time it so the not is plucked in the "trough" you can get a hip hop/modern R'n'B guitar type thing going on as the note swells right behind the pluck of each note... cool. I might take up rapping too. Probably not.

February 8th, 2005, 09:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
El Capitan Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: AUSTIN, Tejas! Posts: 810 2 Photos	If you liked "Blackface" vibe You should try Brown amp vibe...... Bigger amps only. Doesn't use a "trem roach" uses the tube for "harmonic vibrato" look at a 6G4-A schematic for ideas I think Clark is selling an outboard trem/reverb unit with the Brown trem in it,and reverb... I would only like the Trem part though. So, I'll pass.

February 9th, 2005, 01:36 AM	#7 (permalink)
stephent2 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA. Age: 57 Posts: 2,628 20 Photos	I've been taking a Fulltone Supa Trem to the gig (Muddy and a 71 SFVR) and it's the st (sorry, words fail). It's got a wide range of speed, one switch to double the pulse and another to switch between hard and soft pulses, plus rate and mix knobs, works great, not tube but with a tube amp, ain't bad. Right now it's the only pedal i use. __________________ ".. Pine cones go in here (points to still), party liquors comes out here and proceed to here (mouth). Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated". -- Earlie Cuyler, Squidbillies**

February 8th, 2005, 08:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,494	When I saw Richard Thompson w/band in 2000, he played through a brown Vibroverb reissue and never turned the tremolo off.

February 9th, 2005, 12:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
mk Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 253	Yup, do try a brown trem sometime. The big ones have the harmonic vibrato, and the smaller (Vibrolux on down) models have a bias-vary trem that many feel is more musical and smoother than the BF optical roach. That scheme continued to be used in the BF/SF Princeton/Princeton Reverb, too. The Vibro Champ uses a phase-inverter bias trem that is incredibly powerful -- use a strong 12ax7 tube in there, and it will suck the air out of the room. They're all a bit affected by volume -- the BF style likely least of all. When my brown Princeton or tweed Gibson are really cranked, the trem isn't as pronounced.

February 9th, 2005, 09:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
mk Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 253	"Actually, it is on the preamp stage that feeds the output tube. Definitely NOT a phase inverter, but in the same place as the PI in push-pull amps." Oops -- duh! Sory to spread lies.... ;-) Bias wiggle -- I like that. One of the (occasionally) useful things about the overloading of the bias-vary trems is its weakness: if you dig in the trem backs off, and then comes back in stronger when you're playing more quietly. That works for a lot of stuff.

February 10th, 2005, 01:25 AM	#14 (permalink)
TT100 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 214	Don't rule out old Ampeg combos Deep reverb, or "Echo" as they called it and vibrato also. They can be found relatively inexpensively when compared to Fenders of the same vintage. TT100

February 10th, 2005, 03:39 AM	#15 (permalink)
Tim Bowen Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Age: 48 Posts: 3,390	I love the wiggle on the '63 brown Fender Deluxe. That's the fave. Fulltone Supa-Trem has served me well on my acoustic-electric board for the last four years. But it's recently commenced to wigging out, so it's headed back to Mike for repair. My next purchase will be the Toneczar Powerglide. Looks to be a deep box. 18V, lotsa headroom. Independently assignable channels, as to speed, as well as choice of "brownface" or "blackface" modes. And last but not least - ramping between channels, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.... http://www.toneczareffects.com/sm-pedals-trem.htm Area 51 trems look to be cool amp add-ons, but I haven't heard them. http://area51tubeaudiodesigns.com/Me...ry_Code=cat001 __________________ "Everyone is different in how they learn, but for me, it's turning the pegs and just playing." - BB

February 10th, 2005, 01:07 PM	#16 (permalink)
Sunburst Island Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: States Posts: 538	If you want NICE Vibrato...look no further than If you want NICE Vibrato...look no further than http://monstereffects.net/ Honestly! Sweet, Sweet, Sweet.

February 10th, 2005, 02:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
tweedtone Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Age: 42 Posts: 684	For the studio, I use a blonde '63 Bandmaster head - trem so juicy it's borders on Univibe territory. For gigs, Voodoo Lab 4-knob Tremelo into a BFDR gets close enough for rock 'n' roll (and blues and jazz and country and ...)