New BFPR owner, thanks to you guys.

Joe K · February 7th, 2005, 10:13 PM

I was a HRD owner when I first joined TDPRi around five years ago. After keeping an eye on the amp section for a few years, I picked up a Silver Face VibroChamp and love its nice warm sound. A perfect choice for quiet practice. Its 6V6 tone left me feeling a little less than satisfied with my HRD and, I presume, the colder tone of its 6L6's.

So I've been thinking about a new amp for quite a while and could not get this series of posts out of my mind:

8/31/04 Princeton Reverb too much amp for me ?

http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t...4328d481327a9e

I recently found a 66 Super Reverb that I loved at the same time as a 64 PR. That was a tough choice. I think I finally went with PR because the SR is too big (for me) to lug around.

My new amp is very clean and original except for tubes and a capacitor. The owner also installed casters underneath, and I like them. It still has the two prong plug (is that related to the next paragraph?)

A couple of questions about hum, two-prong cords and pedals:

When I tried it with the owner's tele (humbucker equipped!) the amp was silent (makes sense.) At home tonight with my Tele, the amp buzzes quite loudly. Flipping the ground switch only changes it a little bit (I keep it in the position that eliminates the "pop" we've all heard when first making contact with the strings.) Keeping either of my hands on the strings defeats the buzz completely (touching the amp does the same thing.) Is that probably typical 60-cycle hum? Or is there something I can do about it? Do you more experienced players just make a habit of keeping some part of your flesh in contact with the string to keep a good ground? (I know the recording trick of connecting a small wire to your finger, but I am looking for an everyday kind of fix.)

Lastly, the amp has only an aftermarket single button footswitch. Aside from turning effects on and off, is there any reason to use a switch with this amp, or can I just set it the way I like and play without a pedal? I ask because the tremo-off pedal is needed to get the best tone from my VibroChamp.

Lastly, if you feel strongly about it, how important is changing to a three-prong plug. If I should do it, are there instructions online that an amp novice can follow?

Many many thanks TDPRIers!

Joe

El Capitan · February 7th, 2005, 11:13 PM

THE ONLY WAY
http://www.unclespot.com/2to3prongconversion.html

REMOVE THAT CAP!!!!!!!!
yes, I mean it!
Also, remove the ground switch!
And, INSTALL A THREE PRONG CORD! Make it 20 feet long please, Texas size.....extra capacitance

for the power supply, it's my new internet rumour....

dean · February 7th, 2005, 11:43 PM

You've got a great little amp there - the PRs are my favorite Fender amps. I've had a few of them, and El Capitan is absolutely right about the cord switch - you need to get a 3-prong cord on the amp before you use it too much. Safety First! The "Uncle Spot" site is the one I've used on all my old Fenders (I've probably done eight 3-prong conversions).

As far as the hum, the following have worked for me:
1) Make sure the guitar bridge is grounded to the controls
2) 3-prong conversion
3) Switch to a high-quality cable - that makes a big difference
4) If you're near a computer, turn it off or move away from it

Have fun with the new amp - you'll really enjoy it.

Dean

mike_levitt · February 8th, 2005, 01:55 AM

Joe,

Your amp choice shows excellent taste! But do yourself a favor and take the amp to a good tech for the new power cord. There are very high voltages inside your amp, and you can get killed in there even with the amp unplugged. Seriously, it can be very dangerous.

Your first electronics project should not be a tube amp!

While you are there, have the tech check out the amp, and make any needed repairs. It might end up sounding that much better. I just got a brown deluxe today - the previous owner thought it sounded like crap. And the tremolo was broken. When I unpacked it, I saw that 2 of the tubes that were installed were the wrong ones. And it did sound like crap like that! Putting the correct stuff in made it sound 1000% better - it is amazing now, and the tremolo works.

Sometimes a tech can find small, cheap to fix problems that can really help the tone.

The buzzing could be anything - and it's important to remember that Fender guitars are buzzy - that's part of the fun. If you've got any dimmer switches on the lights in your house, try turning them off.

Good luck with the princeton, they're great!

Mike

Paul G. · February 8th, 2005, 11:57 AM

I'm a firm believer of the 3-prong conversion, so I think you should get it done.

As far as the footswitch, the Princeton Reverb is one of the few Fenders that doesn't need a switch to make the tremelo work, so you can use it or not, your choice. I do turn the trem on and off on live performances, but if you're playing at home, the knob is just fine.

Copies of 2-button switches are available, just make sure you it has "RCA" plugs.

Wonderful amp, best of luck with it.

P.

fullerplast · February 8th, 2005, 12:24 PM

Great amp. Get the 3 prong done, but until you do, try turning the 2 prong plug around in the socket. One direction will be more quiet than the other.

Joe K · February 8th, 2005, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the 3-prong plug info. I will make the switch.

Does it make me cheap that I hate to throw $75+ (local techs are pricey) to change the power cord amp right after paying some good change to bring the beauty home. It is a do-it-yourself job or not? I have a friend who just rebuilt an amp and may be able to assist. While we're at it, should I pick up a Radio Shack cord or use a specialty item (perhaps ampworks?)

I also appreciate the info on using the pedal, Paul G. If it doesn't hurt the tone to leave the Trem intensity at "0" and set the reverb where I like it, I won't need one.

Any further tips on reducing hum are welcome. The info on lights, computers etcetera may help explain why the amp was so quiet in the last owner's basement and so different at my house.

Joe K · February 8th, 2005, 05:44 PM

FYI, In doing some homework on my new amp, I see that Fender only started putting a logo on the grill in 1966. That probably makes my amp a 66 or 67. It has the Jensen speaker though that doesn't help really pinpoint the year, does it?

The tube chart would give a clue but is torn above the printed line describing the power supply.

There is an engraved number on back panel (A 15124) which, as far as I know, also says nothing about the date.

Oh well... still looks good and sounds GREAT.

Tom P. · February 8th, 2005, 05:59 PM

Looks like a '67-
Princeton Reverb AA1164 (blackface)
A00100 to A02100 - 1964
A02100 to A07500 - 1965
A05500 to A14500 - 1966
A14000 to A18700 - 1967
from http://www.tcguitar.com/articles/gagliano.html

fullerplast · February 8th, 2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

Thanks for the 3-prong plug info. I will make the switch.

It is a do-it-yourself job or not? I have a friend who just rebuilt an amp and may be able to assist. While we're at it, should I pick up a Radio Shack cord or use a specialty item (perhaps ampworks?)

It's a fairly easy do-it-yourself job. Just about any 16 or 18 guage AC cord will do. Find a computer cord or extension cord and cut the female connector off. The hardest part will be removing the locking cord grommet and getting the new cord to fit. You may need to do some filing or get creative. Whatever you do, make sure there is strain relief so that the connections are not stressed if you pull the cord.

The old cord will have two connections, the new cord will have those same connections (to the accessory outlet) plus the ground wire that you can either solder to the chassis (difficult without a big iron) or connect to a tranny mounting bolt with a crimped on connector (easiest and neatest method).

I like to connect the hot wire (black) so that it goes to the fuse first, as opposed to the neutral. I also clip out the ground cap at the same time-you won't need that anymore and it can be dangerous if it shorts.

Take your time, make sure the caps are discharged before working on the amp, and double check everything. Realize that there is killer voltage in the amp when it is powered up or not discharged. Don't forget that and you'll be fine.

Paul in Colorado · February 8th, 2005, 11:53 PM

Isn't that a little overkill for a PR?

mike_levitt · February 9th, 2005, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

Does it make me cheap that I hate to throw $75+ (local techs are pricey) to change the power cord amp right after paying some good change to bring the beauty home. It is a do-it-yourself job or not? I have a friend who just rebuilt an amp and may be able to assist. While we're at it, should I pick up a Radio Shack cord or use a specialty item (perhaps ampworks?)

I think it's worth having every amp checked out by somebody who knows what he's doing. If your friend knows what he's doing, let him do it. Otherwise, take it to a tech.

First thing, I don't think it's $75. Techs in the house feel free to pipe in here??" I would guess about $40 for 1/2 hour of labor, and $5 for the cord.

Also, you're going to screw up where the cord leaves the chassis, as the factory strain relief plug will probably be too small, and you won't have anything to use in it's place - so if you're anything like the people who owned some of my amps before I did you'll...

A: Leave it hanging in the hole without relief.

B: Tie a knot in the cord and leave it hanging in the hole.

C: Wrap a bunch of black tape around it and leave it hanging in the hole.

All of which look like crap!

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this should not be your first electronics project. Tube amps are difficult and dangerous.

I've been working with electronics for 30 years. I built many of my own effects pedals. I rewire all of my guitars. I put in a new breaker box and rewired my entire house. I've built and customized recording gear, and fixed tape machines, mixers and outboard gear.

And I still take my tube amps to a tech! It is just too dangerous!!!!!

Plus, that amp is going to be worth more money the longer you keep it - any money you spend now will come back to you later. I say take care of it, make sure everything is in good shape, and protect your investment and your life!!!!!!

Mike

Joe K · February 11th, 2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul in Colorado

Isn't that a little overkill for a PR?

Ha Ha. Yes Paul, they are certainly overkill. I have no idea why the last owner did that. I like them just because it's nice to have the amp sit a couple of inches off the ground.

Mike, thanks for all the electronics info.

I've been playing through this amp for a week now and I:

1) have had no desire to try any pedals. Amp, cord & guitar are making the nicest sounds I've ever imagined; and

2) have not even tried my Strats yet. I just pick up the Tele that just happened to be out when I brought the amp home and am so happy playing that I don't want to spend time going to the closet to try something else. Why mess with success?

This is what I've always wanted. Makes me feel bad that, before buying the Princeton, I spent $500 or so on pedals (delay, overdrive, chorus, distortion) trying to get sounds I like from the Hot Rod Deluxe. That's still a good amp, but it doesn't compare to this new one.

jb1911 · February 11th, 2005, 04:40 PM

I had the same experience with a HRD. I changed the speaker to an Alltone 1250, all the tubes several times and I had the thing sounding pretty good. I spent a lot of money too on pedals trying to get a decent distortion sound. I got a 1966 PR from a guy on ebay and the HRD was history. Any pedal you try with a BFPR in top form will make it sound worse. The reverb and tremolo take my breath away. You don't know what an amp is capable of till you've tried one of these.

mike_levitt · February 13th, 2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

I've been playing through this amp for a week now and I:

1) have had no desire to try any pedals. Amp, cord & guitar are making the nicest sounds I've ever imagined; and

2) have not even tried my Strats yet. I just pick up the Tele that just happened to be out when I brought the amp home and am so happy playing that I don't want to spend time going to the closet to try something else. Why mess with success?

This is what I've always wanted. Makes me feel bad that, before buying the Princeton, I spent $500 or so on pedals (delay, overdrive, chorus, distortion) trying to get sounds I like from the Hot Rod Deluxe. That's still a good amp, but it doesn't compare to this new one.

Joe,

I can't agree more with you. I don't have a princeton reverb, but I've got a brown deluxe, and tweed champ and princeton.

It's just plug in ANY guitar and you have instant great tone. After all of the screwing around I did years ago with boogies and other assorted amps, this was a revelation to me. I can't quite explain it, but through one of these old amps you can change the sound a lot just by the way you touch the guitar.

I'm really glad you like the amp, and if you take care of it, it will probably last forever. Congrats again on a great amp!!!

Mike

February 7th, 2005, 10:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Joe K Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bethesda, Maryland Posts: 601 6 Photos	New BFPR owner, thanks to you guys. I was a HRD owner when I first joined TDPRi around five years ago. After keeping an eye on the amp section for a few years, I picked up a Silver Face VibroChamp and love its nice warm sound. A perfect choice for quiet practice. Its 6V6 tone left me feeling a little less than satisfied with my HRD and, I presume, the colder tone of its 6L6's. So I've been thinking about a new amp for quite a while and could not get this series of posts out of my mind: 8/31/04 Princeton Reverb too much amp for me ? http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t...4328d481327a9e I recently found a 66 Super Reverb that I loved at the same time as a 64 PR. That was a tough choice. I think I finally went with PR because the SR is too big (for me) to lug around. My new amp is very clean and original except for tubes and a capacitor. The owner also installed casters underneath, and I like them. It still has the two prong plug (is that related to the next paragraph?) A couple of questions about hum, two-prong cords and pedals: When I tried it with the owner's tele (humbucker equipped!) the amp was silent (makes sense.) At home tonight with my Tele, the amp buzzes quite loudly. Flipping the ground switch only changes it a little bit (I keep it in the position that eliminates the "pop" we've all heard when first making contact with the strings.) Keeping either of my hands on the strings defeats the buzz completely (touching the amp does the same thing.) Is that probably typical 60-cycle hum? Or is there something I can do about it? Do you more experienced players just make a habit of keeping some part of your flesh in contact with the string to keep a good ground? (I know the recording trick of connecting a small wire to your finger, but I am looking for an everyday kind of fix.) Lastly, the amp has only an aftermarket single button footswitch. Aside from turning effects on and off, is there any reason to use a switch with this amp, or can I just set it the way I like and play without a pedal? I ask because the tremo-off pedal is needed to get the best tone from my VibroChamp. Lastly, if you feel strongly about it, how important is changing to a three-prong plug. If I should do it, are there instructions online that an amp novice can follow? Many many thanks TDPRIers! Joe

February 7th, 2005, 11:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
El Capitan Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: AUSTIN, Tejas! Posts: 810 2 Photos	3 prong THE ONLY WAY http://www.unclespot.com/2to3prongconversion.html REMOVE THAT CAP!!!!!!!! yes, I mean it! Also, remove the ground switch! And, INSTALL A THREE PRONG CORD! Make it 20 feet long please, Texas size.....extra capacitance for the power supply, it's my new internet rumour....

February 7th, 2005, 11:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
dean Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Age: 60 Posts: 2,042	Alright, Joe! You've got a great little amp there - the PRs are my favorite Fender amps. I've had a few of them, and El Capitan is absolutely right about the cord switch - you need to get a 3-prong cord on the amp before you use it too much. Safety First! The "Uncle Spot" site is the one I've used on all my old Fenders (I've probably done eight 3-prong conversions). As far as the hum, the following have worked for me: 1) Make sure the guitar bridge is grounded to the controls 2) 3-prong conversion 3) Switch to a high-quality cable - that makes a big difference 4) If you're near a computer, turn it off or move away from it Have fun with the new amp - you'll really enjoy it. Dean __________________ "I used to be clueless, but I've turned that situation around 360 degrees."

February 8th, 2005, 01:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
mike_levitt Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 316	Take it to a tech! Joe, Your amp choice shows excellent taste! But do yourself a favor and take the amp to a good tech for the new power cord. There are very high voltages inside your amp, and you can get killed in there even with the amp unplugged. Seriously, it can be very dangerous. Your first electronics project should not be a tube amp! While you are there, have the tech check out the amp, and make any needed repairs. It might end up sounding that much better. I just got a brown deluxe today - the previous owner thought it sounded like crap. And the tremolo was broken. When I unpacked it, I saw that 2 of the tubes that were installed were the wrong ones. And it did sound like crap like that! Putting the correct stuff in made it sound 1000% better - it is amazing now, and the tremolo works. Sometimes a tech can find small, cheap to fix problems that can really help the tone. The buzzing could be anything - and it's important to remember that Fender guitars are buzzy - that's part of the fun. If you've got any dimmer switches on the lights in your house, try turning them off. Good luck with the princeton, they're great! Mike

February 8th, 2005, 11:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
Paul G. Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 885	Great, and I mean Great Amp I'm a firm believer of the 3-prong conversion, so I think you should get it done. As far as the footswitch, the Princeton Reverb is one of the few Fenders that doesn't need a switch to make the tremelo work, so you can use it or not, your choice. I do turn the trem on and off on live performances, but if you're playing at home, the knob is just fine. Copies of 2-button switches are available, just make sure you it has "RCA" plugs. Wonderful amp, best of luck with it. P. __________________ Listen to your mother

February 8th, 2005, 12:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
fullerplast Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,066	Great amp. Get the 3 prong done, but until you do, try turning the 2 prong plug around in the socket. One direction will be more quiet than the other.

February 8th, 2005, 01:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Joe K Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bethesda, Maryland Posts: 601 6 Photos	Thanks for the 3-prong plug info. I will make the switch. Does it make me cheap that I hate to throw $75+ (local techs are pricey) to change the power cord amp right after paying some good change to bring the beauty home. It is a do-it-yourself job or not? I have a friend who just rebuilt an amp and may be able to assist. While we're at it, should I pick up a Radio Shack cord or use a specialty item (perhaps ampworks?) I also appreciate the info on using the pedal, Paul G. If it doesn't hurt the tone to leave the Trem intensity at "0" and set the reverb where I like it, I won't need one. Any further tips on reducing hum are welcome. The info on lights, computers etcetera may help explain why the amp was so quiet in the last owner's basement and so different at my house.

February 8th, 2005, 05:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
Joe K Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bethesda, Maryland Posts: 601 6 Photos	Make that a '66 or '67 FYI, In doing some homework on my new amp, I see that Fender only started putting a logo on the grill in 1966. That probably makes my amp a 66 or 67. It has the Jensen speaker though that doesn't help really pinpoint the year, does it? The tube chart would give a clue but is torn above the printed line describing the power supply. There is an engraved number on back panel (A 15124) which, as far as I know, also says nothing about the date. Oh well... still looks good and sounds GREAT.

February 8th, 2005, 05:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tom P. Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Eastern Ct. Posts: 909	Looks like a '67- Princeton Reverb AA1164 (blackface) A00100 to A02100 - 1964 A02100 to A07500 - 1965 A05500 to A14500 - 1966 A14000 to A18700 - 1967 from http://www.tcguitar.com/articles/gagliano.html __________________ Just Pickin'

February 8th, 2005, 11:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 56 Posts: 4,448 3 Photos	It Has Casters? Isn't that a little overkill for a PR?

February 11th, 2005, 04:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
jb1911 TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chicago area Posts: 92	I had the same experience with a HRD. I changed the speaker to an Alltone 1250, all the tubes several times and I had the thing sounding pretty good. I spent a lot of money too on pedals trying to get a decent distortion sound. I got a 1966 PR from a guy on ebay and the HRD was history. Any pedal you try with a BFPR in top form will make it sound worse. The reverb and tremolo take my breath away. You don't know what an amp is capable of till you've tried one of these.