Going rock... when "too much" is never enough

[EasilyAmused]

So I was recently asked to audition for an up & coming alt rock/punk group, which is doing quite well for themselves, and their only concern with me right now is gear - particularily my amp. They are pretty concerned about image/appearance, so I need something that looks more rocking.

It'd be a great group to get into, as these guys are making a pretty good living off of music right now (their drummer, for example, just bought a brand new car and is financing a home, doing nothing but the band),

My guitar is a '72 re-issue tele custom (MIM) which they actually think is VERY cool looking & sounding, but my amp just looks too small. Sadly, image is important to these guys, so my hot rod deluxe is not going to cut it.

So I'm looking for advice as to what kind of amp set-ups to look at. I don't want to spend too much money (though I'd likely sell my HRDx), but need to still have good tone, etc... Their former guitar player played a les paul into a mesa boodie roadking with a 4x12 cab. I personally want to find something that can rock like that (especially since I'm playing all of those songs), but not be as typical and conventional sounding. One of the things the guys liked about my playing and what got me this gig is that I don't sound like every other guitar player to come along.

I tried a Marshall JCM 900 with them the other day, but it just didn't grab me as a great match with my tele...

Any recommendations?

Part of me is tempted just to keep my HRDx and buy an empty marshall cabinet just for show, but I'm also curious to hear what is out there

On the bright side, the amp will probably pay for itself over time, AND they are big enough that they typically have roadies moving their gear in and our for them.

[Jef]

Why don't you try one of the big old Fender piggybacks? A Dual Showman Reverb (100watt) or a Bandmaster Reverb (45 watt). They look cool (a bit weird though) and they sound fantastic. Just use a pedal for heavy distortion.
Jef

[Jim Hoffman]

An Orange head and 4x12 would look cool, different, very alt-rock and give you something other than the typical sound.

[stormin]

I was in the same situation about a year and a half ago.

I was playing a '52 RI, and a Bandmaster Reverb like Jef suggested. Unfortunately, this is a rig that I would recommend against for an alt/punk/rock gig. While the Bandmaster sounds great thru a 4x12, it just doesn't have enough clean punch to carry a large gig. You really notice this if you play outdoors.

For an alt/punk/rock situation like that, the most flexible rig is a 100 watt "clean" head, 4x12 cabinet, and pedals. You're going to be emulate the Marshall TSL, Mesa Rectifier tones.

To me this means a Boss Metal Zone (don't be scared by the name - it's a hot rod Marshall in a box). Find a good used (cheap) 4x12, and as for the amp, I got the most mileage from a 100 watt "clean" head. Jef recommended the Showman, I use a Boogie Mark 1 (totally bullet proof). Other good inexpensive but good choices could be Carvin X100 (used), the red-knob showman head, or a Marshall 100w plexi.

The point here is to hang on to your HRDx, and you can pick up a used working rig for $1000 or less, depending on how you do it. As the new guy, I wouldn't drop $2999 on a Road King head, or $2300 on a Marshall TSL rig until I knew things were going to work out.

Hope this helps.

...Stormin

'52 Reissue Tele
Boss OS2 (light dist/od sounds)
Boss Metal Zone (harder dist)
Boss Metal Zone (lead settings)
Mesa Boogie Mk1 (100w)
4x12 cab

[Anonymous]

http://www.frampton.com/tour_album/i...xspkrs_JPG.jpg

Hee.

I like the Orange suggestion. Heck, it even stands out on the page. ;-) Or if you really want an "alt" look, how about an old Traynor YBA-1 (with your choice of speakers)? You can have it modded to roar like a Marshall, but you won't be doing the "me, too" thing, you'll be using a more affordable – but still cool – uh... alternative. ;-)

But really, there's a great rock tradition (Allman Bros., Kiss, Skynrd, others) of putting up a "decorative" wall of one kind of amp (usually Marshall) only to have their actual sound supplied from some other kind of amp behind the facade. So if you're really in love with the HRD, seek counseling. ;-) Er, I mean... just get an empty Marshall head and cab and put your amp behind it (or even <u>inside</u> the Marshall cabinet if it'll fit).

Personally, I'd be a lot more concerned with how an amp sounds than how it looks – but looking back, I sure did some stoopid stuff in my day. ;-) Best of luck, CS :-)

[bluescube]

Orange Amp!

Or A Carvin Legacy 1/2 stack

[Ben Harmless]

First, make sure this is the band for you. I once invested heavilly in a band that was going to take me places, only to find out that those places were not for me.

Then, if you like the Fenders, but need to look more intimidating, I'd suggest getting a Twin Reverb, and sitting it on top of a road case. Everything looks bigger when it's higher off the ground. A 1x12 combo on a road case next to a vertical 2x12 entention cab is also a cool look.

Other amps to try include:
- Peavey 5150 (or whatever they're called now - and you'll want to get it modded for adjustable bias)
- Marshall JCM800 (if you can find one at a decent price and don't need Fender cleans - my secret weapon)
- Fender Bassman. Blackface. The coolest of cool. Crank it.

[Durtdog]

You could push this with your HRDx.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...778115307&rd=1

No affilitation, jes havin' fun.

[Maggot]

Well. there's all kinds of large, loud and punchy. I'd go for a Marshall Silver Jubilee, preferably in silver tolex! They're expensive, but cheaper than a Road King! They were reissued (in black as the Slash head). They sound really cool, and have a more normal (rounder) bottom end than the 800s or 900s that I've tried. The various plexi-era Marshall reissues (with pedal distortion) are another idea.

If you really want to do up the image thing - I agree with the Orange suggestion. I've always wanted one.

If they like the way your HRD sounds, get a twin and put it on top of an extension cabinet, or for real old-school large-amp overkill, get a Super-Six (my fave) or Quad Reverb and a hand truck. I especially like the Super-Six. It's a Silverface twin with six 10 inch speakers. It's a bear to move, but would look rockin' with your guitar. You'd obviously need pedal distortion. A Barber Direct Drive SS does high gain stuff well, and in many situations so does a Rat.

A Musicman HD 65 or HD 130 would be loud and cheap and would match the 70s vibe of your guitar. They don't match up well with all distortion pedals due to their solid state preamp (mine never liked my Rat), but they have all-tube power sections and generally sound like Fenders.

Maybe I'm a child of the 80s, but I always thought that Soldanos looked and sounded cool, especially in colored Tolex. They can lack low end, but I play trebly anyway. Riveras do high and low gain really well and are cheaper than most Mesas

A blackface Bassman is really cool for that kind of music, but if the volume gets ridiculous, it can get lost. It depends on the level of professionalism of your band, really. I've never heard of a 50-watt Marshall getting lost, even though they have no more power than a Bassman.

If its a purely professional decision, run it by them, but don't get anything you don't like. If you don't have your own van or large wagon, see if you can get away with a 2x12 cabinet.

I'm kind of glad that large amp time in my life is over, but I kind of miss it.

I've owned:

Musicman HD 130
Sunn Solaris (sounded great, no one knew how to fix it)
Sunn Model T (ditto - Fender made reissues for a while which supposedly sounded great, but not the same as the old ones). - The Sunns look cool.
Sovtek Mig 50 (good budget choice - mine had reliability problems, others swear by them. Really nice sound. Probably has an image problem).
135-Watt Twin (my least fave)
Marshall Bluesbreaker Combo (cool but expensive, may or may not be what the other guys are looking for image-wise).
Peavey Classic 50 - Loud, Clean and Reliable. The tweed looks probably aren't what your guys are going for.

[halouis]

Image is a lot for sure, and in reality with good miking, you could do it w/. a HRDx, but for that type of music, there's somethign about having 2 or 4 12" being pushed.

some great recommendations already.

oh and by the way, CONGRATS on gettin gthis offer. Let us know how it all goes.

[El Capitan]

HIWATT or Reeves 100.
Make your bandmates regret the day they told you your HRD was too small...


http://www.reevesamps.com/reeves_amp...-24-04_001.htm

[PSWoods]

Two empty 4x12 cabs with humorous, ironic (fake) logo/emblem. Plus a blown, inoperable SS "head", gutted, with a completely phony chassis front ("face plate" - controls).

Your real amp is mic'd, possibly out of sight.

Go ahead and paint whatever image they want over the top of yourself, but stay true at the core, with your sound and all.

I have taken this approach - kinda - with my main gittar in the rock band I'm in now. I bought an Ibanez knockoff neck on eBay for $20 and used a Dremel to fit it to a strat body. Then I made a fake "Ibanal" ("I [am] banal") decal for the headstock.

When things get too... um... rockin... (cough) I just look down at my gittar and remember that I still have a foot in the real world.

[marshallmelloman]

I would probably try and borrow something to do a few shows with first to make sure you are getting along alright with the band before getting in debt. You could always power a 4x12 with the hrd for now. Somebody you know must have a 4x12 they don't wanna carry in their basement or rehearsal space that you could use for a few shows. After that if things work out for a while and you wanna get something really different there are TONS of cool boutique amps out there to try. If you wanted to stay with Fender and don't mind going loud, expensive, and heavy, the Tonemaster which is discontinued but available used frequently, is a monster of rock. I have found it to be toneful and reliable as well as really great looking.

[Aen]

Sheesh, man, i wish I lived near you. I've got a giant Peavy tube combo that's become "too much amp" for me. And a HRDx is probably the amp of my dreams.

I don't know why this band is so concerned with the look of your amp though.

[bo]

Back in the day (mid to late '80s) I used a Laney AOR 50 (50 watter) and a Randall 4X12. Never gave me any problems on the road. It's basically a Marshall knockoff with dual cascaded preamps. There's an AOR 100 out there too. They should be able to be had for pretty cheap second hand nowadays. You can also spray 'em down with spray paint if you're image concious-I saw alot of that. Good luck.

[bluescube]

A Carvin Legacy 1/2 stack would look cool. I think it would sound good with a tele since it has lots of mids.

[agent2x4]

Is the Hot Rod Deluxe no good sonically for this band? You stated they liked how you play...they must have heard that amp being used when they formed their opinions. Hopefully their desire in your changing amps is more than just an "image over substance" thing.

Good luck...sounds like fun otherwise.

[EasilyAmused]

that's the dilema - I love my HRDx!!!! I think it sounds great, and I've tried a lot of amps, and a lot of HRDx... I got mine used from some guy who had modded the heck out of it, new tubes, speaker, etc...

Really, that amp does lack in the dirty side of things, and while pedals do the job, it seems this setting would best be suited by a bigger looking amp.

I rented a Marshall JCM 900 for a little while, and I'll probably keep doing that for a while, (A/B'ing it with my HRDx) but long term, I want to find something of my own eventually (once things are more settled, as peope have mentioned). But I tend to take a long time searching out my gear, so I figure it's never to early to look at suggestions...

[skip62]

You could do this
HRDx head

[David Barnett]

I vote for some sort of vintage or re-issue English 4x12 half-stack too. Orange, Hiwatt, or a 4-input non-master-volume Marshall of some sort.

Or maybe two 2x12 combos sitting on top of road cases. Say, an AC30 AND a Marshall "Bluesbreaker" combo.

And I vote against anything from Mesa, Peavey, or Carvin.

[e-merlin]

You can cover all bases with a Peavey 5150 Combo. It's a 60 Watt 212 combo with a sealed back that gives you that 412 low end punch. Running your Tele through the Low Gain input will give you clean on par with a Twin but beefier. You can easily set it up to break up nicely and back off the guitar's volume for clean, too. If you plug into the High input you'll be able to access gain for days. The Lead channel is all about gain, but can be dialed back as well. Plus, it's eminently adjustable with the active Presence and Resonance controls. And it sounds great with those Fender Wide Range humbuckers.

Two caveats: First, you need flawless preamp tubes because this thing will feed back on command at medium gain settings and you don't want a microphonic tube ruining that. Second, it may have too much gain on the Lead channel. I'm experimenting with some ECC81/12AT7 tubes in V2 and 3 to tame the gain. I'll post more when I come up with the combination I like.

Oh, yeah, a used one will run you about 500 bones, maybe less.

The new ones are called the 6505 in honor of Peavey's 40th anniversary (1965-2005). The 6505 amps are identical to the 5150s other than small cosmetic details. Eddie didn't own any part of the amps other than his signature.

[Oldschoolwax]

My carry out non tube rig would be great for you. two ADA 2x12 splitstack cabs and a Gallien Krueger 2100sel 100watt stereo head. Compact loud and easy to move! I can fit that rig with a guitar in the front passenger side of my Jetta! Oh, did I mention the loud part? Nice clean and mellow to real hard dirty metal distortion on the lead channel. ( and the noise reduction helps with the bridge pup noise when not playing too. I use my MIJ 72 Custom RI with it all the time.

Mike


PS, covering the front of your custom with stickers will make them like you even more!

[Wild Rice Chris]

I have a pair of those ADA 2x12s with Celestions. They sound GREAT, but I haven't used them in 3 years (stopped playing loud, now practically unamplified). I used them with a Roland JC-120 head and a Trace Elliot head. Been thinking about dumping the cabs. E-mail me if you're interested.

[cg73cmc]

Originally Posted by Ben Harmless

First, make sure this is the band for you. I once invested heavilly in a band that was going to take me places, only to find out that those places were not for me.

Then, if you like the Fenders, but need to look more intimidating, I'd suggest getting a Twin Reverb, and sitting it on top of a road case. Everything looks bigger when it's higher off the ground. A 1x12 combo on a road case next to a vertical 2x12 entention cab is also a cool look.

Other amps to try include:
- Peavey 5150 (or whatever they're called now - and you'll want to get it modded for adjustable bias)
- Marshall JCM800 (if you can find one at a decent price and don't need Fender cleans - my secret weapon)
- Fender Bassman. Blackface. The coolest of cool. Crank it.

I think this is real good advice here from Ben. I especially like the Twin Verb idea. The band may be concerned with image -- but I'm finding more and more younger bands who are getting into Fender amps. My nephew's band won't play anything else -- and the more beat up the Fender amp is -- the more they like it -- as long as it says "Fender" on it. Sooo, there are some different views out there with the younger crowd when it comes to what's cool and what's not. I actually talked to a kid who works with me the other day and we were talking about guitars -- and he mentioned how cool Chet Adkins was and how no one has ever played like Chet, and how Chet was just the greatest ever. This guy wasn't even old enough to drink. Although I love Chet now that I'm in my 40's -- back in the late 70's -- Chet was definitely NOT cool (at least with the crowd I hung out with back then). So it is kinda neat seeing at least some of these folks falling in love with old Fender Amps and old guys like Chet.