66 DR ...vs DRRI vs BFPR vs Boutique

[Joe K]

Does this header make me look confused? I am a little. A 66 DR on eBay has me thinking...

Right now I have an early 70's VibroChamp with Holy Grail and love it. Also have a Hot Rod Deluxe and, while it is probably a very good amp for many, it leaves me cold. I like a warmer sound with more breakup. Even with a pedal for breakup, the sound is not what I like for blues guitar (all I play.)

I read a number of TDPRi threads on the Princeton Reveb and it is VERY appealing as I play mostly at home. I am afraid though that it may fill not my need for something louder than the VC when I play with "my son the loud drummer" or in a small club. (I could keep the HRD for that but will probably sell it.)

So as others have asked recently, is the DR the ultimate small club blues amp for Teles and Strats? If so, do I go with an original (if I can afford it, which I can this week) a reissue or a boutique amp?

The way I see it, the reissue won't have good resale but is priced so much less than the other choices that the importance of resale is minimized. A reissue might not have the quality of sound an original or boutique has though. Is that right? Even after replacing the speaker and/or tubes? I know you can't repair the PCB, but that may not be a problem if I play mainly at home and treat the amp gently.

An original mid sixties DR, that would be pretty cool. A real reward for working so hard at my hobby for so many years. But if it's original, am I right to assume that it may need any number of parts (which could be pricey after paying for the amp itself) and that changing parts might negatively effect the amp's value? And, while it can always be fixed, will it be (a lot) less reliable than a new amp? Overall though, I assume a big plus is that I will always be able to sell a BFDR for what I paid for it and maybe more over time.

A boutique. Interesting too. A good one would perhaps sound better than an old DR and have a few more tonal options at the same time. It would contain all new parts and should be trouble free. It just wouldn't have the mojo or resale value of an original Fender. A new boutique point-to-point amp might cost a lot less than a clean DR though.

Any words of wisdom from my fellow TDPRi friends? What do you think?

Joe

BTW, here is a little data on the eBay amp:

Near mint condition original 1966 Deluxe Reverb model AB763. This is probably the cleanest one you will ever find and very original.

Of course it has original tolex, grill cloth, pots, transformers etc... even the clean original footswitch. I think it's the cleanest one I've ever had. I cant barely find an imperfection anywhere.

Original CTS pots are stamped 137-6614, and the original transformers are all stamped 606607,606602, 606602, tube chart stamped PF.

One of the coolest things about this amp is that it has, (Im told the original custom ordered) the old JBL D120F speaker in it with the original wire harness. Im told this was a rare special ordered custom option available at the time.

[Wayne Alexander]

Check out the Allen Accomplice or Brown Sugar. Better made, more versatile sounding than any of the other choices.

[Ringo]

You can still run across the Silverface Deluxe Reverbs pretty reasonably, a LOT less than the BF DR's.
They sound great, are easy to work on and tweak, and will continue to appreciate in value unlike the DR RI's.

Another good amp that still can be found reasonably, about the same size but a bit heavier is the SF Pro Reverb, it would have more clean headroom.

I've gigged with a pretty loud 6 pc band using mostly my 68 DR for years, you can always mike it or use a DI box if you need more volume.
The only problem with the DR is if you need a lot of clean headroom, I've done a lot of work to mine to improve that but it still will never be as clean as a Super / Pro / Twin etc...
If you mostly play blues the DR may be perfect.

As far as Allen amps etc.. I'm sure are great amps, never played through one or heard one, and I have seen them used at decent prices on occasion.

[Jim L]

I posted last week asking if the DR was the ultimate club amp as many claim it to be. There were some good responses that you might find interesting.

A DR will have noticeably less volume that your Hot Rod Deluxe, which is 40 watts to the DR's 22. The HRD's also us 6L6 power tubes which are much different than a DR's 6v6 tubes. But, it does sound like the sound and power you're looking for might be handled by a DR.

A mid 70s SF DR will cost much less than a late 60s SF DR, and even less than the BF DR. But, as when buying any amp that age, you might need to put some $$ into it at the tech's. Cap jobs, replacing an old tired speaker, new tubes, etc, could run the price up. This could be the case with any old DR (SF or BF) that you find.

Yes, a BF DR is pretty much an investment, especially if you play primarily at home, as it won't be out gigging too much, taking a beating. They definitely seem to hold their value.

I think the Allen BF-based amps are somethign to strongly consider. Mr Allen seems to be known for his customer service, which is rare. You could "tweak" the design a bit as you order it, rather than buying an older amp and then paying more to tweak. The Accomplice is based on the DR but has the option of running 6L6 tubes for more power, and you can easily switch back to 6v6 tubes. No tremolo, but you get the raw switch, and a mid control, I think. Seriously worth considering, especially given how much a real BF DR will cost you (nevermind the upkeep)

[Stan Martin]

If you can afford a REAL Fender Deluxe Reverb. Get it.
They sound great and maybe the resale thing isn't an issue now, it may be down the line it could be. The DRRI isn't even close. No not the PTP thing, but the cabinet/speaker thing.

The Allen amp would be a great idea for price considerations. Make sure you choose the right speaker.

[Joe K]

While we're at it, what do you think about the JBL D120F speaker that this '66 has?

The ad states "Im told this was a rare special ordered custom option available at the time"and "It has alot more volume and head room and can really get out in front"

As you may have read, I want breakup more than clean head room. Does that mean I might need to change the Speaker right away? Or is an original speaker due for a change anyway?

Many thanks, TDPRi amp gurus.

[KC]

I've got an original '65 Deluxe (non-reverb) with a fairly effficient Weber ceramic in it and I find that it won't quite keep up in a 3-piece blues band at reasonable volume in a club. and without a master volume, it's pretty clean at living-room volumes. seems like you might get caught in-between: too clean at home. too nasty on the gig. I'd look at the brown sugar, maybe.

or, just to upset the apple cart a little, try out some of the currrent boutique amps -- a Maz 18 jr. or a bad cat cub can be had for the same price as that BFDR, both fun amps.

that JBL, by the way, should be a lifetime speaker -- you may have to recone every decade or two but it should last about forever. might be a bit painful in the TV room, though.

[Joe K]

Really good advice so far. Thanks to all. It's all I'm thinking about today... would an amp like this make me "happy for the rest of my life (you know the song. ha ha.)"

According to the last post (and all of you with GAS,) maybe not.

BTW, is the 66 (1st year of CBS) any less collectable than the 65?

[Aaron Schiff]

1. I would love the JBL. But you said you were looking for a warm tone and I doubt that you would get the warm tone or smooth breakup that you said you are looking for from a JBL.

2. I think a BF amp would be a great choice if you are an amp tech, or you have a good friend who is an amp tech. I have a good friend who is excellent. Otherwise, I think you might be spending more money than you might intend to.

3. I really liked the Allen Accomplice and Old Flame that I played. I think the Accomplice is one of the best modern Deluxe clones and very reasonably priced. In your case, I would look very closely at the Accomplice. If you would like more of a "Brown" tone and a little more power, look at the Brown Sugar.

[Aaron Schiff]

Another thought. If you can find a Fargen dealer, the Fargen Blackbird (40w) with a 12 inch Weber is a superb amp and almost the same price as an Accomplice direct from David Allen. I play one regularly at the local shop and I am going to regret it mightily when it goes out the door to someone else.

[Stan Martin]

will fetch you some good money. If it is a Fender labeled JBL you can get $400 (more or less) for it.

[skinnyguy]

My bandmate has an Accomplice and it is a great amp. But (correct me if I'm wrong) it will cost you over a grand. SFDRs can still be found in the $600 to $800 range. I just bought one in October for $650. Another thing on the Accomplice - and I hope I'm not stepping on toes - but while the Accomplice's clean tone is sweet, I'm not as hip on the Raw control. I prefer (and my bandmate concurs) the sound of my SFDR with a tubescreamer or sparkle drive over the Accomplice.... and I'm only in mine $650 plus whatever the pedals run. My point is, if cost is a concern, the Accomplice, in my mind, is not a "low-cost" alternative to buying a black face - unless you think $1300 is low-cost. It's a great amp, but my "two cents" is you'd be ahead to go with the silverface DR.