Is the DR the ideal club amp?

Jim L · January 3rd, 2005, 05:24 PM

I just came across a sweet mid 70s DR (no pull-bust or master volume) that has been bf'd and housed in great looking BF cosmetics.

It got me thinking... I own two amps. A PV Delta Blues (30w, 1x15) that I gig with about twice a month. No problems, reliable, nice tube tone, usable if not ideal dirty channel. My other amp is a Holland Lil Jimi 1x12 combo. Think Super Reverb in a 1x12 box. Also has a sweep knob that brings it more towards Vox. Two-knob reverb (DEEP verb), single channel. The Holland sounds GREAT, but is too loud for most gigs I play.

I play in a 5-piece blues band. Only one guitar (me), keys, drums, bass, vocals/harp. We play Chicago style and some West Coast style. The Holland usually can't go much past 3-4 (out of 12) before it's too loud. There have been a couple gigs in which I've been able to open it up, but again, a minority.

This past weekend I gigged and we had a guest guitarist play all night. He was playing an Am Std tele through a Blues Jr, which was not mic'd. The Tele/Blues Jr combo kept up fine. I was playing my Heritage 535 into my PVDB. This made me realize that if a Blues Jr is enough amp, a DR must be plenty. The Blues Jr was up on top of another amp while mine was on the floor at my feet, tipped back.

I'm guessing that a nice DR is plenty of amp for a blues band. We're not doing big rooms, but I could always mic it if need be.

I just feel like, while I love the Holland's tone, it's sitting out most gigs because it's too much amp.

tweedtone · January 3rd, 2005, 06:26 PM

Got a '67 BF DR that meets 80% of my gigging needs. Smaller, I use the aforementioned Blues Junior; larger, I stack the DR on top of a Fender 2x12 driver by a blonde Bandmaster head.

IMHO, having a speaker that meets your tonal needs is crucial - I've got an EVM-21L in mine that tightened up the lows and smoothed out the highs. Downside is it doubled the amp's weight! For blues, you'll probably want something with an earlier breakup.

John Dotty · January 3rd, 2005, 06:30 PM

I've just started using a SFDR for gigs in a similar setting to yours and it's got power to spare. In fact, I'm using a hotplate to get power amp drive at manageable volume. These things pack a plentiful punch.

And the tremolo is perfect for those Magic Sam moments too!

John Dotty · January 3rd, 2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweedtone

Got a '67 BF DR that meets 80% of my gigging needs. Smaller, I use the aforementioned Blues Junior; larger, I stack the DR on top of a Fender 2x12 driver by a blonde Bandmaster head.

IMHO, having a speaker that meets your tonal needs is crucial - I've got an EVM-21L in mine that tightened up the lows and smoothed out the highs. Downside is it doubled the amp's weight! For blues, you'll probably want something with an earlier breakup.

I've toyed with the idea of trying a EVM-12L I have lying around in my SFDR. How would you describe the sound? I would imagine it firms up the low end a bit.......

And was fitting relatively straight forward?

tweedtone · January 3rd, 2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewy

I've toyed with the idea of trying a EVM-12L I have lying around in my SFDR. How would you describe the sound? I would imagine it firms up the low end a bit.......

And was fitting relatively straight forward?

Oh, I heartily recommend doing so. Yes, it tightened up the lows wonderfully. You can dime the volume and no farting (from the amp, anyhow.) Smoothed out the highs plus added some clarity so that you can turn down the treble, thus reducing hiss overall. I use Barden pups.

Fits in the cab and clears the tubes no problem.

The sound, to my ears, just sounds like a BF Deluxe without flabby lows and with a smoother top. Mids are fully present to the extent that I've taken my Fulldrive off my pedalboard - just too much mids for me - now using an analogman TS-9 pushed by a Luxury Drive for leads or just the LD (killer boost pedal, btw).

Hope that helps!

Hucklebilly · January 3rd, 2005, 08:41 PM

It really depends what you're after. I've been playing through a friends 64 Deluxe with our country band, and I there are times where I wish it had more head room, even in very small rooms. We are not a loud band and usually I play the amp on 4, but anything above that it will start to break up, especially with a boost pedal. It's a great sounding amp, but I play pretty clean, and I would prefer something with a little more "oomph." Granted, if you put some 6L6s in it and a solid state rectifier, that might help, but since it's not my amp, I'm not really at liberty to modify it.

John Dotty · January 3rd, 2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweedtone

Oh, I heartily recommend doing so. Yes, it tightened up the lows wonderfully. You can dime the volume and no farting (from the amp, anyhow.) Smoothed out the highs plus added some clarity so that you can turn down the treble, thus reducing hiss overall. I use Barden pups.

Fits in the cab and clears the tubes no problem.

The sound, to my ears, just sounds like a BF Deluxe without flabby lows and with a smoother top. Mids are fully present to the extent that I've taken my Fulldrive off my pedalboard - just too much mids for me - now using an analogman TS-9 pushed by a Luxury Drive for leads or just the LD (killer boost pedal, btw).

Hope that helps!

Sure does, thanks! I'll give it a go and see how it goes.

Cheers.

Jim L · January 4th, 2005, 10:59 AM

to have a great sounding DR that can handle the majority of my gigs, and mic it for the times it's underpowered, than to have the Holland which is overpowered for the majority of my gigs (because it obviously sounds better on 6 or 7 (out of 12) than on 2-3.

tweedtone · January 4th, 2005, 11:42 AM

Jim, you'll be a happy man if you do. When the stars align, the band's cookin' and I'm having one of "those" nights, I swear there's an unbroken connection going from my fingertips straight through the speaker of my Deluxe Reverb. They're just such wonderfully responsive amps and as you'll find, they're the perfect size and wattage for the vast majority of gigs that ya play in the real world. For DIYPA (do-it-yourself PA) gigs in clubs, I find it's a great guage of how loud the band is overall - if my DR can't be heard by the keyboard player on the other side of the stage, then we ALL need to take it down a couple of notches.

Jim L · January 4th, 2005, 12:12 PM

Our biggest problem right now is that the guy who's been our replacement drummer is a rock guy. VERY talented, Berklee grad, toured overseas, etc, but the fact is he has trouble drumming at the right level for our style of band. I end up turning up, which leads to the keys turning up, etc...

I misseed out on the DR that I saw (excellent condition mid 70s, blackfaced, blackface cosmetics, etc), but I might unload the Holland anyways so I'll have the $$ available when I find another DR.

tweedtone · January 4th, 2005, 12:19 PM

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

The auction just ended but nobody bid. Maybe email the seller and see what he'll take for it ..?

Jim L · January 4th, 2005, 01:05 PM

I'm looking for something more like the DR's 22 watts. The Duncan amp is probably similar in output to the Holland.

I'm going to hold off for a bit. If I decide to sell the Holland, I'll start looking for reasonable condition SF DRs that can be blackfaced.

boogaloo · January 4th, 2005, 01:24 PM

No relation- just saw it in there.

Brian

Jim L · January 4th, 2005, 01:34 PM

That's the DR that started all this... but I would need to sell the Holland immediately to have the $$ for it, as I don't have cash to throw down on the DR w/o unloading the Holland first.

It's not sold, I just know that it will likely go to ebay before long, and I can't expect the owner to hold it for me while i try to sell the Holland.

boogaloo · January 4th, 2005, 01:48 PM

I try not to take "new" money and spend it on something that I can possibly do without (for at least a while). Lord knows I'm not rich, but I've been blessed with some great gear.

Best wishes to you! I've heard a lot of nice things about Holland- I'll bet you'll turn it around in good time. There's gotta be some loose Christmas money out there burnin' a hole in someone's pocket!

Brian

John Dotty · January 4th, 2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim L

to have a great sounding DR that can handle the majority of my gigs, and mic it for the times it's underpowered, than to have the Holland which is overpowered for the majority of my gigs (because it obviously sounds better on 6 or 7 (out of 12) than on 2-3.

Or.... if the Holland is 'the tone', get an attenuator to use with it.

Jim L · January 4th, 2005, 01:59 PM

But I don't think I'd want to lose that 6L6 fullness.

I know nothing about attenuators... what can you tell me?

thanks,
Jim

John Dotty · January 4th, 2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim L

But I don't think I'd want to lose that 6L6 fullness.

I know nothing about attenuators... what can you tell me?

thanks,
Jim

You plug them in between the power amp and the speakers, and they enable you to get your cranked amp tones but at the overall loudness you want.

They work best in the role of 'taming' your amp.... they're sometimes marketed as a way of getting cranked tones at bedroom volumes but my experience is that such extreme attenuation doesn't sound good. At really low volumes the speaker isn't contributing to the tone too, of course, so it doesn't sound right.

But for what you're describing, an attenuator may be just the ticket. Probably the two most popular ones are the THD Hotplate and the Weber Mass. Both have different designs and features but basically do the same thing.

Monster Mike Welch · January 4th, 2005, 03:52 PM

If I were you, I'd stop buying amps and get a Weber MASS. At this point, I couldn't even start to do a gig without one (that's not true...but it is very helpful...)

Looking forward to seeing you some Sunday!

M

Jim L · January 4th, 2005, 04:29 PM

time to stop thinking about all this and just play.

Mike, I was just mentioning to Big Cookie, I dig the Holland's Super Reverb tone in a 1x12 package, and maybe I'll go the weber mass route at some point. The Delta Blues has been cutting it fine at most gigs, and the Holland's better for bigger rooms (not that we play big rooms) or outside.

I'm still smarting from the nice tone Tom Carrol worked out of his tele and Bill's Blues Jr... oy!

telel6s · January 4th, 2005, 05:01 PM

Jim,

I had emailed the seller about that amp as well for some of the same reasons you state. The only amp I have right now that I can gig without a mic is my Super Reverb. Luckily, I like the sound of that amp at lower levels as well as up around 6 or 7. But it sure would be nice to have something smaller when playing a room up a flight of 20 stairs.

My brother has a pre-CBS DR and they really are sweet amps. But $750 is a lot of money to spend on a hobby when I already have what's needed to get the job done (although I think that's a fair price these days for that amp).

So I just did the adult thing and put the money in my IRA. I'll spend the cold winter weekends fixing up a 2x10 '65 Epiphone I picked up cheap last year. I doubt it will get mistaken for a DR; but once the drummer, bass and lead guitarist get cranking around me I don't think anyone in the bar could care less.

Thanks for starting this thread and helping me to keep perspective on these things.

PS: Based on all the other posts, I thing a Weber MASS or similar is going to serve you fine.

jumpnblues · January 5th, 2005, 11:52 AM

...perhaps the best DR ever made. You can occasionally pick one up in the TDPRI Garage Sale ads or Weber classifieds and they're not expensive. If you want a new one you can buy it fully assembled or in kit form for a few hundred less. Beautiful sounding amps and David Allen is simply the best of the best to deal with. And the grabber is they cost about the same as a new DRRI. In an effort to avoid stepping on anyone's toes, I won't comment on the difference in tone or quality between an Allen Accomplice and DRRI...I don't think I have to. JMHO. YMMV.

Jim L · January 5th, 2005, 01:00 PM

jumpnblues,
I was actually looking at those online yesterday. I do like the trem on BF amps (even though many don't) but could live without it. I don't feel confident enough with a soldering iron (I''ve only used it to install pups in my Tele) to build it from a kit, but seriously like the idea.

The fact that it's made to handle both 6v6 and 6L6 tubes is very cool, and it keeps it in the 20-30 watt range.

Someday...

TT100 · January 5th, 2005, 04:57 PM

Just checked with the seller about available pics and it's no longer for sale.

Oh well.

TT100

SFDR, SFVR or SFPro R, one of them will be the lucky winner.

January 3rd, 2005, 05:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	Is the DR the ideal club amp? I just came across a sweet mid 70s DR (no pull-bust or master volume) that has been bf'd and housed in great looking BF cosmetics. It got me thinking... I own two amps. A PV Delta Blues (30w, 1x15) that I gig with about twice a month. No problems, reliable, nice tube tone, usable if not ideal dirty channel. My other amp is a Holland Lil Jimi 1x12 combo. Think Super Reverb in a 1x12 box. Also has a sweep knob that brings it more towards Vox. Two-knob reverb (DEEP verb), single channel. The Holland sounds GREAT, but is too loud for most gigs I play. I play in a 5-piece blues band. Only one guitar (me), keys, drums, bass, vocals/harp. We play Chicago style and some West Coast style. The Holland usually can't go much past 3-4 (out of 12) before it's too loud. There have been a couple gigs in which I've been able to open it up, but again, a minority. This past weekend I gigged and we had a guest guitarist play all night. He was playing an Am Std tele through a Blues Jr, which was not mic'd. The Tele/Blues Jr combo kept up fine. I was playing my Heritage 535 into my PVDB. This made me realize that if a Blues Jr is enough amp, a DR must be plenty. The Blues Jr was up on top of another amp while mine was on the floor at my feet, tipped back. I'm guessing that a nice DR is plenty of amp for a blues band. We're not doing big rooms, but I could always mic it if need be. I just feel like, while I love the Holland's tone, it's sitting out most gigs because it's too much amp.

January 3rd, 2005, 06:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
tweedtone Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Age: 42 Posts: 684	You betcha! Got a '67 BF DR that meets 80% of my gigging needs. Smaller, I use the aforementioned Blues Junior; larger, I stack the DR on top of a Fender 2x12 driver by a blonde Bandmaster head. IMHO, having a speaker that meets your tonal needs is crucial - I've got an EVM-21L in mine that tightened up the lows and smoothed out the highs. Downside is it doubled the amp's weight! For blues, you'll probably want something with an earlier breakup.

January 3rd, 2005, 06:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
John Dotty TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	I've just started using a SFDR for gigs in a similar setting to yours and it's got power to spare. In fact, I'm using a hotplate to get power amp drive at manageable volume. These things pack a plentiful punch. And the tremolo is perfect for those Magic Sam moments too! __________________ "Big time, Bill! Big time, big time!"

January 3rd, 2005, 08:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hucklebilly Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 821 2 Photos	Depends... It really depends what you're after. I've been playing through a friends 64 Deluxe with our country band, and I there are times where I wish it had more head room, even in very small rooms. We are not a loud band and usually I play the amp on 4, but anything above that it will start to break up, especially with a boost pedal. It's a great sounding amp, but I play pretty clean, and I would prefer something with a little more "oomph." Granted, if you put some 6L6s in it and a solid state rectifier, that might help, but since it's not my amp, I'm not really at liberty to modify it.

January 4th, 2005, 10:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	I think the best thing would be to have a great sounding DR that can handle the majority of my gigs, and mic it for the times it's underpowered, than to have the Holland which is overpowered for the majority of my gigs (because it obviously sounds better on 6 or 7 (out of 12) than on 2-3.

January 4th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
tweedtone Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Age: 42 Posts: 684	Jim, you'll be a happy man if you do. When the stars align, the band's cookin' and I'm having one of "those" nights, I swear there's an unbroken connection going from my fingertips straight through the speaker of my Deluxe Reverb. They're just such wonderfully responsive amps and as you'll find, they're the perfect size and wattage for the vast majority of gigs that ya play in the real world. For DIYPA (do-it-yourself PA) gigs in clubs, I find it's a great guage of how loud the band is overall - if my DR can't be heard by the keyboard player on the other side of the stage, then we ALL need to take it down a couple of notches.

January 4th, 2005, 12:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	Tweedtone, excellent point Our biggest problem right now is that the guy who's been our replacement drummer is a rock guy. VERY talented, Berklee grad, toured overseas, etc, but the fact is he has trouble drumming at the right level for our style of band. I end up turning up, which leads to the keys turning up, etc... I misseed out on the DR that I saw (excellent condition mid 70s, blackfaced, blackface cosmetics, etc), but I might unload the Holland anyways so I'll have the $$ available when I find another DR.

January 4th, 2005, 12:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
tweedtone Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Age: 42 Posts: 684	Check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW The auction just ended but nobody bid. Maybe email the seller and see what he'll take for it ..?

January 4th, 2005, 01:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	that's a 40 watt amp I'm looking for something more like the DR's 22 watts. The Duncan amp is probably similar in output to the Holland. I'm going to hold off for a bit. If I decide to sell the Holland, I'll start looking for reasonable condition SF DRs that can be blackfaced.

January 4th, 2005, 01:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
boogaloo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: S/E Pa. Age: 52 Posts: 1,129	Did You See The One in the Garage Sale? No relation- just saw it in there. Brian __________________ "..and I've got some tricks up my sleeve...oh yes indeed! It might come back to haunt 'cha..don't you throw that Mojo on me!"

January 4th, 2005, 01:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	That's actually THE one That's the DR that started all this... but I would need to sell the Holland immediately to have the $$ for it, as I don't have cash to throw down on the DR w/o unloading the Holland first. It's not sold, I just know that it will likely go to ebay before long, and I can't expect the owner to hold it for me while i try to sell the Holland.

January 4th, 2005, 01:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
boogaloo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: S/E Pa. Age: 52 Posts: 1,129	Same With Me Most Times I try not to take "new" money and spend it on something that I can possibly do without (for at least a while). Lord knows I'm not rich, but I've been blessed with some great gear. Best wishes to you! I've heard a lot of nice things about Holland- I'll bet you'll turn it around in good time. There's gotta be some loose Christmas money out there burnin' a hole in someone's pocket! Brian __________________ "..and I've got some tricks up my sleeve...oh yes indeed! It might come back to haunt 'cha..don't you throw that Mojo on me!"

January 4th, 2005, 01:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	someone once suggested yellow jackets But I don't think I'd want to lose that 6L6 fullness. I know nothing about attenuators... what can you tell me? thanks, Jim

January 4th, 2005, 03:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
Monster Mike Welch Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 121	If I were you, I'd stop buying amps and get a Weber MASS. At this point, I couldn't even start to do a gig without one (that's not true...but it is very helpful...) Looking forward to seeing you some Sunday! M __________________ www.monstermikewelch.com

January 4th, 2005, 04:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	time to step back time to stop thinking about all this and just play. Mike, I was just mentioning to Big Cookie, I dig the Holland's Super Reverb tone in a 1x12 package, and maybe I'll go the weber mass route at some point. The Delta Blues has been cutting it fine at most gigs, and the Holland's better for bigger rooms (not that we play big rooms) or outside. I'm still smarting from the nice tone Tom Carrol worked out of his tele and Bill's Blues Jr... oy!

January 4th, 2005, 05:01 PM	#21 (permalink)
telel6s Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,180 80 Photos	Passed on the same amp for similar reasons Jim, I had emailed the seller about that amp as well for some of the same reasons you state. The only amp I have right now that I can gig without a mic is my Super Reverb. Luckily, I like the sound of that amp at lower levels as well as up around 6 or 7. But it sure would be nice to have something smaller when playing a room up a flight of 20 stairs. My brother has a pre-CBS DR and they really are sweet amps. But $750 is a lot of money to spend on a hobby when I already have what's needed to get the job done (although I think that's a fair price these days for that amp). So I just did the adult thing and put the money in my IRA. I'll spend the cold winter weekends fixing up a 2x10 '65 Epiphone I picked up cheap last year. I doubt it will get mistaken for a DR; but once the drummer, bass and lead guitarist get cranking around me I don't think anyone in the bar could care less. Thanks for starting this thread and helping me to keep perspective on these things. PS: Based on all the other posts, I thing a Weber MASS or similar is going to serve you fine. __________________ Mama always said, "A little tone is good for the soul."

January 5th, 2005, 11:52 AM	#22 (permalink)
jumpnblues Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midwest Age: 59 Posts: 1,679	Consider an Allen Accomplice... ...perhaps the best DR ever made. You can occasionally pick one up in the TDPRI Garage Sale ads or Weber classifieds and they're not expensive. If you want a new one you can buy it fully assembled or in kit form for a few hundred less. Beautiful sounding amps and David Allen is simply the best of the best to deal with. And the grabber is they cost about the same as a new DRRI. In an effort to avoid stepping on anyone's toes, I won't comment on the difference in tone or quality between an Allen Accomplice and DRRI...I don't think I have to. JMHO. YMMV. __________________ jumpnblues "Heaven St." (Original Blues Instrumental): http://www.box.net/shared/static/z96atf0zn2.mp3 http://www.myspace.com/drbluezz

January 5th, 2005, 01:00 PM	#23 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	good idea jumpnblues, I was actually looking at those online yesterday. I do like the trem on BF amps (even though many don't) but could live without it. I don't feel confident enough with a soldering iron (I''ve only used it to install pups in my Tele) to build it from a kit, but seriously like the idea. The fact that it's made to handle both 6v6 and 6L6 tubes is very cool, and it keeps it in the 20-30 watt range. Someday...

January 5th, 2005, 04:57 PM	#24 (permalink)
TT100 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 214	The BF'd SFDR in the Garage sale is NLA. Just checked with the seller about available pics and it's no longer for sale. Oh well. TT100 SFDR, SFVR or SFPro R, one of them will be the lucky winner.