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Old February 9th, 2011, 03:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Rivera era Fender Concert amps??

Got a chance to pick up a very nice condition rivera era 80's Fender concert in 4x10 configuration; sounds GREAT; looks pretty good; appears all original--but retubed.....no pedal....It is PTP......

Anyone have one? Thoughts on this amp and its value and tone; etc.? Collectible value (if any...)?

Thanks!

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Old February 9th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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They are good amps. I prefer the smaller amps of this line...Super Champ, Princeton REv II, DR II; but the Concert and TRII are something that I never turn away from if offered at a reasonable price. I have a sheet describing some mods that I have never tried. The 'problem' for me with the Concert and the TRII is that they are loud amps by the time I get the power tubes involved in the issue...and I like power tubes working.
What is the asking price? IF you like the sounds as is, one woul dhave to ask what a hand-wired switching reverb amp is worth, right? Where else are you gonna get one?
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Old February 9th, 2011, 05:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There is a 1x12 for sale here now at the TDPRI. They're asking $550. I have a 2x10 model I bought about two years ago. I also purchased it at $550.00. Right now it appears that's about what they're fetching in price, maybe a little more for a 4x10. They have fairly good tone and are supposed to be very easy to Blackface. Lots of mods on the Gearpage. I also like the drive channel (most don't). Someone on E-bay was making pedals for these amps at one time. Actually tomorrow I have some speakers coming in for my Vibrolux and I am gonna install 2 vintage ceramic CTS speakers in my Concert II and see how in reacts. Hey I wonder what speakers are in yours. I've heard of them having EV's which I love. Those would be great as I bought mine with 2 Peavey Scorpions in it. Well good luck. I think you'll like it. If not there are tons of mods for it.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 05:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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FWIW, the preamps in these amps is basically BF. So is the output section. The OD functions are the only difference, imho. These amps will do BF FEnder REverb sounds very accurately. They do tweed sounds....and they go into higher gain, too. Twisting of the knobs is the key.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 06:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody961 View Post
Got a chance to pick up a very nice condition rivera era 80's Fender concert in 4x10 configuration; sounds GREAT; looks pretty good; appears all original--but retubed.....no pedal....It is PTP......
A replacement footswitch is available. I bought one for my Super Champ. I also have a Twin Reverb II and would jump at the chance to buy another Rivera Fender if the price was right.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
FWIW, the preamps in these amps is basically BF. So is the output section. The OD functions are the only difference, imho. These amps will do BF FEnder REverb sounds very accurately. They do tweed sounds....and they go into higher gain, too. Twisting of the knobs is the key.
Yeah, but not 100%. They have the BF sound, sort of. They don't have all the sparkle, chime and open-ness of a real BF.

OD channel has all the gain after the EQ, which doesn't sound as good as having the gain before the EQ, which then lets you EQ the distortion.

They do have nice beefy transformers, but the lead dress inside is a total mess. Messy lead dress can lead to instability, so they put caps from plate to cathode on the preamp tubes as band-aids. That kills the high end.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, that may be in the tech side of it jsut looking at it, John. That said, I can set my Super Champ beside a PRinceton REverb, Deluxe REverb.....and get the same sonics. But then, I don't run the stock speakers in my SC's. I did the test for a fellow just the other day...my Super champ beside a mint '75 DR that I just got, recapped, serviced, retubed. The sparkle was there in both amps, the clarity was there, the bottom was there, the rich reverb was there. He couldn't believe the comparison...or the versatility of the little SC. For a OD switching amp, it gets as close as one can expect, ime. And...my ears are picky.
Now, when my Super Champ had the stock speaker in it, it was a useless amp to my ear....no bottom, no sparkle, no clarity, harsh when driven harder.

The true test for me is that if I had an unending supply of Super Champs, DRII"s or Princeton Reverb II's, I coudl sell one or two a month without trying. The Rivera era amps that I have had...adn I have had them all.... sell more quickly than any other amp I have had....except that Roland JC-120 that sounded like crap and I sold for $125 to get it gone! LOL
I guess I shouldn't talk these amps up so much, andmaybe I could buy more of them at low prices, right? As it is, I have to fight people off of my two SC's because if I end up with only two amps, these will be those two. Big, rich sound in a tiny package with great versatility.....and handwired. YMMV....
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Old February 9th, 2011, 07:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I could not be happier with my 2 x 10 concert. When I got it the stock speakers were shredded, I put a set of Emenance speakers in.

One of these years I'm going to have a tech go over it, re-tube and bias.

I got a footswtich made by VooDoo man, cost around $60.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 07:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Aaahhh yes! That's where I got that switch. It was VooDoo man on E-bay! Works well too! I agree with BiggerJohn. My amp is a good sounding amp, but there just seems to be just a little something missing. It never sounded better than when I had the two Webers in it (10f150/10f150T). But I'm using them for something else. I'm going to get it modded fully to blackface specs.

Last edited by lioncommandking; February 9th, 2011 at 07:52 PM. Reason: more info
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Old February 9th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Been through 4 Rivera-era amps. 2 Super Champs, PR II and DR II. I'd love to find a nice DR II again. My fave of the bunch.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 11:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have a Concert ll and like it heaps. Still haven't sold my SF Bassman yet, but am tempted if I ever need the cash. I did 2 simple mods to it that I got off of TGP, (removing 2 caps on the clean channel for a truer BF sound) and put in a Fane AX12. Plenty of sparkle and chime. I use the gain channel too but at a low gain setting to get a mild OD and then goose it with a pedal.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 04:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Wow!!! Last night I put 2 vintage ceramic CTS speakers with aluminum domes in my Concert II. Suddenly everything Fender was there. I had these speakers in my Fender Super along with 2 of Webers version of the same speaker. I knew they had the Super sounding sweet, but I had never been quite satisfied with anything I'd put in the Concert II and I have tried many pairs and combinations of pairs.....until now!!! I don't know if I still need to try to bring this amp to true blackface specs. Blackface tone is now there.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 07:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Tube layout for Concert II amp???

Guys, got the concert II in 4x10...it is a beaut,a nd sounds VG! I think it can cound some better with some preamp tube changes...anyone know the tube layout looking at the back of a concert II amp?? Which preamp tube or tubes affects the clean headroom for this amp?

THX!!
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Old February 21st, 2011, 08:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Woody,

I had a Concert 2 x 10. Great amp, but I opted for better portability. Tubes, from Right to Left:

V1-12AX7 (probably has the most effect on clean headroom - 12AY7 or 5751 worth a try)
V1-12AX7 (spec is for 7025 - don't waste your money)
V3-12AT7
V4-12AX7 (spec is for 7025)
V5-12AX7 (Reverb recovery buzzed; I replaced with JAN 5751 and it was nice & quiet).
V6-12AX7 (spec is for 7025)
V7-12AT7
V8 & V9 6L6. I used TAD 6L6GC-STR's
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Old February 21st, 2011, 09:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Awesome! .........THANKS!!
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 06:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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2 ohm load for Concert II amp??

BTW, does the Concert II amp with 4 tens want a 2 ohm load----four 10" 8 ohm speakers wired for a 2 ohm load??
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 07:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
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woody, it looks like the Concert II is 4 ohm using just the cab speakers. I'm betting they are 4 ohm speakers wired series/parallel. Or maybe 16 ohm speakers all wired parallel. Does it say what they are on the speakers?
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 08:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Sure does, speaker code is : 064121; and 67-8403.

I know this is an Eminence speaker, hence the "67"; but does the "4" after the 06 mean 4 ohm? Does the "8" in 8403 mean 8 ohm or the year "84??

I guess I just need to get an ohm meter and measure......
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 11:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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woody, I just thought of another possibility. If you notice on the schematic I posted, it is possible to change the connections on the output transformer for 4 or 8 ohms. Maybe it came from the factory 4 or 8 according to the speaker configuration used.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 01:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Woody,

When I got my concert, the power tubes were wildly mismatched Sovteks - 5881WXT and 6L6WXT+. When I put in a matched pair, I couldn't get the bias to adjust to 35 ma. The bias adjustment is "balance". Apparently the design was to accommodate the lower quality tubes available in the 80's where you just bought tubes by the part number and matched pairs were difficult to find.

Since you've acquired the schematic, you should get a schematic for an AB 763 circuit and rewire the bias adjustment into blackface style that adjusts both power tubes simultaneously.

I recommend leaving the hum balance adjustment alone. The last time I fiddled with mine, I smelled smoke and promptly returned it to its original position.
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