explain something to me please! (re:amp volume)

[sunburst]

some of you fellas might remember the topic i posted awhile ago regarding me wanting to replace my supertwin because it sounded like crap with my tele .my main problem was that i was getting really nasty highs (very brittle) as well as unpleasant breakup from the midrange frequencies.... just to name a couple.

well after much "troubleshooting" i tried lowering my amp volume by ALOT and bamm!...my guitar suddenly sounds great. no more tone issues.

problem is that i have a SUPERTWIN!!!

these amps were made to be extremley loud (180 tube watts)and clean with plenty of headroom ...so my question is why do i have to play so low in order for my guitar to sound good.

it dosent seem normal for such a "loud and clean" amp to do this

i cant really play with my band at that volume because i get drowned very easily ....and no the band cant play at a lower level because that would mean having our drummer tone it down which wouldnt be appropriate for the type of dynamics required .....


how do i get my guitar to sound as good but at a higher volume?

do you think its an amp issue ?(tubes ect....)


note: i have low output sk pups on my tele


thanks for all your help

[KRZ4TELE]

Hey SB,
You gotta have electronic problems with the amp or guitar. Any normal 80 watt twin will keep up with any drummer unless you are in a stadium. Get that amp/guitar checked out!
Regards

[sunburst]

Originally Posted by KRZ4TELE

Hey SB,
You gotta have electronic problems with the amp or guitar. Any normal 80 watt twin will keep up with any drummer unless you are in a stadium. Get that amp/guitar checked out!
Regards

hmmmmm.........

[Joe-Bob]

Yeah, I agree. You may have a bad tube or two. That amp should be able to cause deafness and still be clean

[sunburst]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Yeah, I agree. You may have a bad tube or two. That amp should be able to cause deafness and still be clean

i certainly hope its a bad tube or other fixable amp problem because i really dont want to fork out more cash for another amp.

all this time i thought it might've been my pups :?

thanks for the feedback guys...ill get that amp checked out

if any amp gurus out there would like to add some comments feel free

[fullerplast]

That amp does not have the best reputation for great tone but there are some things you can try. If you still have the stock Utah speakers, try something better. That itself should make a big difference. Second, check the output tube bias to make sure it is not set too cold. Third, I think you have six output tubes in that amp. You may want to investigate running the amp with only 4 or 2 output tubes, but have a tech look at the output impedance options and bias. You need the same number of output tubes on each side of the phase inverter, so don't arbitrarily pull tubes. It will probably be the two outside tubes first, but check the schematic and layout.

Just some ideas.....

[Wally]

Sunburst, you didn't tell us what your settings on the amp are for the 'high volume' and the 'low volume'. I am going to guess that your tone controls are up a bit in the range. This would work at low volume settings, but the preamp can get pushed into some seriously mangled distortion if the tones are not brought down when taking the volume pot to the upper reaches....at least, that is my experience. I am not saying that your amp would not benefit from a tech, but turning the pots is a lot cheaper and to my way of thinking necessary even when an amp is fresh and correct.
Also, what guitar are you playing, and what is the stagger of the polepieces on the pickups. Vintage Fender stagger with the raised G pole will definitely drive a player nuts since it is so much hotter in the magnetic field than the other strings. This stagger will result in a situation where when the other strings are smoothly singing, the G will drive the preamp into a clanging chaos. A raised G pole is designed for a wound G, which has a weak magnetic effect in the field compared to a plain G.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by fullerplast

That amp does not have the best reputation for great tone but there are some things you can try. If you still have the stock Utah speakers, try something better.

Didn't most of those amps come with Vega speakers?

[fullerplast]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Didn't most of those amps come with Vega speakers?

I don't think so (CTS or Oxford were common though), but the main point was to try something different than stock. The speakers are the single most critical tone component in an amp IMHO, YMMV of course.

Personally, I'd look at other amps before trying to make this one into something it's not.... but if that's not an option I'd try speakers, bias, and eliminating some power tubes as the most effective means to change the tone.

[sunburst]

Originally Posted by Wally

Sunburst, you didn't tell us what your settings on the amp are for the 'high volume' and the 'low volume'. I am going to guess that your tone controls are up a bit in the range. This would work at low volume settings, but the preamp can get pushed into some seriously mangled distortion if the tones are not brought down when taking the volume pot to the upper reaches....at least, that is my experience. I am not saying that your amp would not benefit from a tech, but turning the pots is a lot cheaper and to my way of thinking necessary even when an amp is fresh and correct.

low volume=3 1/2
high volume= 6-7

even at 5 its starts to sound a little yucky.

my tone controls are extremely moderate actually.

treble=4
mid=3
bass=5

second eq is just used for tiny cuts in other frequencies.

trust me when i say that ive tried alot of tone turning with this amp .my supertwin dosent exactly have the most flexible eq anyway so i dont really boost or cut much

i could get into a whole other discussion about the supertwin eq and how unusable it is but ill spare you guys.

anyway my settings are very subtle.

Also, what guitar are you playing, and what is the stagger of the polepieces on the pickups. Vintage Fender stagger with the raised G pole will definitely drive a player nuts since it is so much hotter in the magnetic field than the other strings. This stagger will result in a situation where when the other strings are smoothly singing, the G will drive the preamp into a clanging chaos. A raised G pole is designed for a wound G, which has a weak magnetic effect in the field compared to a plain G.

mexican tele with sk pups.......im pretty sure his pickups arent the issue[/code]

[sunburst]

Originally Posted by fullerplast

Personally, I'd look at other amps before trying to make this one into something it's not.... but if that's not an option I'd try speakers, bias, and eliminating some power tubes as the most effective means to change the tone.

honestly, ive tried other amps and i have to admit that the tone issue started to pop up again when played loudly....who knows it might very well be the pickups but sk gets so many rave reviews that im thinking its something else

[sunburst]

Originally Posted by fullerplast

That amp does not have the best reputation for great tone but there are some things you can try. If you still have the stock Utah speakers, try something better. That itself should make a big difference. Second, check the output tube bias to make sure it is not set too cold. Third, I think you have six output tubes in that amp. You may want to investigate running the amp with only 4 or 2 output tubes, but have a tech look at the output impedance options and bias. You need the same number of output tubes on each side of the phase inverter, so don't arbitrarily pull tubes. It will probably be the two outside tubes first, but check the schematic and layout.

Just some ideas.....

thanks for the suggestions

dont know if im willing to fork out and buy new speakers only to find that they had nothing to do with the issue.

what will pulling out 2 tubes do to the sound besides lower the wattage....wont the sound break up alot faster??

[fullerplast]

Originally Posted by sunburst

thanks for the suggestions

dont know if im willing to fork out and buy new speakers only to find that they had nothing to do with the issue.

what will pulling out 2 tubes do to the sound besides lower the wattage....wont the sound break up alot faster??

Try to find somebody that will let you hook up your amp into their cabinet for some quick speaker tests. Yours may be faulty or just bad sounding. At least eliminate the possiblility.

You need to get the bias checked at a minimum before going too far with anything else. That amp should be loud and clean, too loud and too clean for many people-hence the power tube suggestion.

Don't you also have some sort of built in distortion circuit on that amp? Is that enabled by any chance?

[sunburst]

Originally Posted by fullerplast

Try to find somebody that will let you hook up your amp into their cabinet for some quick speaker tests. Yours may be faulty or just bad sounding. At least eliminate the possiblility.

sounds like an idea

too loud and too clean for many people-hence the power tube suggestion.

i actually NEED it to be "too and too clean"

Don't you also have some sort of built in distortion circuit on that amp? Is that enabled by any chance?

yes...it is always disabled.whoever was responsible for that "distortion" should be shot

[Dacious]

Try bumping your treble and mid settings. Bass should be good, but I'd try 5-6 treble and 6-7 mids. As the volume goes over 5, lower the bass setting to 2-3. Thing about them is, you adjust one and it affects the others. So you sorta think 'too trebly - wind back treble'. But you also affect mid and bass frequencies when you do. Better in that instance to wind on some mid. Turning the volume control also has an affect - it's a resistor and cuts higher frequencies first. By winding up the treble and middle, you may be able to rebalance your volume lower.

Generally most people drop the bass setting as they wind on volume, so as not to get farty bass notes. It also gives your speakers an easier time and stops your bass player from slapping you.

It takes the most power to reproduce bass notes, which is why that's where you notice disortion first, so keeping bass lower will also keep the amp sound cleaner.

[sunburst]

Originally Posted by Dacious

Try bumping your treble and mid settings. Bass should be good, but I'd try 5-6 treble and 6-7 mids. As the volume goes over 5, lower the bass setting to 2-3. Thing about them is, you adjust one and it affects the others.

totally agree..its an odd eq...not very flexible.

as far your your suggested settings go...its way too much for treble and mids...starts to sound harsh.

dude...trust me when i say i tried everything in regards to eq section

Turning the volume control also has an affect - it's a resistor and cuts higher frequencies first. By winding up the treble and middle, you may be able to rebalance your volume lower.

but i dont want to go lower or keep it that low in volume:?

Generally most people drop the bass setting as they wind on volume, so as not to get farty bass notes. It also gives your speakers an easier time and stops your bass player from slapping you.

It takes the most power to reproduce bass notes, which is why that's where you notice disortion first, so keeping bass lower will also keep the amp sound cleaner.

bass is set very moderately...i dont really like my guitars to have to much bass..just enough to warm it up