need to consider a different amp ...suggestions!!!??

sunburst · November 27th, 2004, 12:00 PM

i currently have a fender supertwin amp that i use with my tele(s) and danelectro and although the amp satisfies me in some ways ( its very loud and clean) , i find the preamp section sounds crappy.

i thought it was mt tele pickups at first ( cheap mexican stock) but even after replacing the pickups with some custom s.k pups, the sound is still rather crappy .example , the highs are kind of brittle and harsh, mids are also very lifeless and harsh when i spank the guitar

at first i thought it was my pickups but i tried my guitar through a beckemer ( company went bankrupt)amp this week and it sounded much better

can you guys suggest some good amps that are also very loud and super super clean but have a nice preamp section unlike my supertwin

its gotta be tube!

thanks!!

Bruce Kiely · November 27th, 2004, 12:36 PM

I'm very pleased with my Fender '64 Vibroverb Custom RI. Kind of expensive, but I haven't regretted the purchase even for a second.

40 or 50 watts (depending on which mode you operate in) into a 15" speaker. Tons of clean headroom. Loud amp!

All tube, point-to-point hand wired.

This is a current Fender product, so you should be able to find one in a store somewhere. As always, your mileage may vary ...... best to try before you buy!

:-)

Good luck, and let us know what you end up with.

Cheers,
BK

stantheman · November 27th, 2004, 12:52 PM

LOUD & CLEAN is not a bad thing. Changing (6) 6L6's is
kinda costly. I try to tell everybody who's not satisfied
with their Fender TONE to TRY a Voodoo Labs "Sparkle Drive". I am not a technical guy when it comes to Amps but, I've played through one or two in my day and I know what I like. Before I got The Sparkle my Twin was used for very specific things only now I use it for all the Styles I am familiar with.
*** But when it comes to The Bars - a Peavey Classic
from the 1970's with a Tech 21 GT-2 is what I desire.
IMHO it'll out-muscle a JTM-45 Re-Issue and frankly it
really does sound like I've got Eric's Beano Amp.
It's kinda of a bummer when I want to get a Victoria Double Deluxe and won't be able to bring it out because
of the dramatic increase in the idiot population since 1990 who can now legally enter A Bar. I believe this to be the real reason why Roy Buchanan switched to
a JC-120....he saw an increase in the walking brain dead before the rest of us.

e-merlin · November 27th, 2004, 01:28 PM

Current production: Peavey Triple X 212 combo. Yeah, they are aimed at the Metal crowd and the Trucker Chicks are kinda cheesy. But for the money you would pay for a good clean amp, you not only get a fantastic Clean channel that rivals a Fender Twin (doesn't sound exactly like one, though), but two other channels that you can coax just about anything from slight breakup to full on Metal. Plus, you can swap the 6L6es for EL34s if you prefer. It's got an active EQ on the two dirty channels so you can't set it the way you would a Fender, but it's not that hard to coax loads of different tones out of this one.

Used: Peavey Duel 212 combo. Better Clean channel than a Triple X (and that's hard to do) plus the Tremolo from the legendary Valverb as well as a pretty good dirty channel. One cool feature of this amp is that the Low input is 6dB lower than the High input, allowing you to max the preamp without going into distortion on the Clean channel. I just found one after years of lusting. Hope it doesn't dissappear before I get my 5150 paid off!

Yeah, I'm a pretty staunch Peavey user. I've had quite a few other amps and I just keep going back to Peavey because my tone is there. Besides, when the big one drops all that'll be left are cockroaches, Teles, and Peavey amps!

I'm going to change my signature now!

David Barnett · November 27th, 2004, 01:43 PM

Loud and clean with good tone? I'd suggest a pre-master-volume silverface Twin Reverb-Amp.

An Ampeg VT22 would be another good choice, except that they are not very reliable and use a boadload of oddball tubes.

If you don't mind coughing up some bucks, then a blackface Twin Reverb-Amp, Showman-Amp, or Dual Showman-Amp would fit the bill nicely.

d. meyers · November 27th, 2004, 01:57 PM

OK, here's my once a week plug for the custom shop Dual Professional- but you had better really be in the market for loud. Really rich beautifull clean, and extremley loud. Did I mention loud?

e-merlin · November 27th, 2004, 04:34 PM

But is it loud?

sunburst · November 28th, 2004, 11:02 AM

thanks for the replies so far people....i will look into some of these suggestion for sure.

in the meantime please ....keep em coming!!

i need as much feedback as possible

thanks again....much respect :D

sunburst · November 28th, 2004, 11:04 AM

on a side note:

what do you guys think about the idea of getting my supertwin's preamp section modded for "better tone"??

el_extranjero · November 30th, 2004, 03:50 PM

I find my Peavey Classic 50 gives me what you're asking for, but before you buy a new amp, check out www.eurotubes.com and consider having JJ speck out some tubes for what YOU want. You can do the same with Weber speakers. Tell him what you want and he'll build speakers for it!

I have the C50 and didn't even CONSIDER playing it stock. I bought it used off ebay and had JJ's tubes and Weber 30watt speakers on order. It sounded good stock, it sounds LUSH with those upgrades.

BB · November 30th, 2004, 03:57 PM

Winfield Thomas Elizabeth.

sunburst · December 1st, 2004, 12:49 AM

el_extranjero interesting suggestion, however i wonder how much of a significant difference changing tubes and/or speakers would make on my amp. i could be wrong but i get the feeling the preamp is the real problem...

BB never heard of this Winfield Thomas Elizabeth....will look into it

thanks!!

el_extranjero · December 1st, 2004, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunburst

el_extranjero interesting suggestion, however i wonder how much of a significant difference changing tubes and/or speakers would make on my amp. i could be wrong but i get the feeling the preamp is the real problem...

Sunburst,
Just my opinion as always :) However, my feeling is/was that the amp is primarily a box that holds tubes and speakers. In my case, the C50 is all tube. Your amp may be different and have a solid state pre-amp.
In any case, I was pleasantly surprised by how much difference tubes and speakers made!

Good luck!

rdchapman · December 1st, 2004, 09:34 AM

Loud CLean? Ampeg VT-22 if you can handle the weght of one. The output tubes are being produced agian and I've never had mine fail. The preamp circuit is very versatile. I've put this thing up against several SF and BF twins and the Ampeg is much louder. I use mine for my Wurlitzer electric piano live after using Twins for a while. A Tele thru this monster.........Large clubs only.

richard

Sarge · December 1st, 2004, 09:40 AM

Reverb-O-Sonic 2X12, a bit pricey but I've never had a cleaner amp. Plus the O.D. channel will knock your socks off. A jammin' buddy of mine brought it over one night and it's never left my house, that was 5 years ago and it continues to impress the *#%* outta me. You can occasionally find them gently used for around a grand but people tend to keep them. Mines a very loud 60 watt. As far as dependability, I'd put it right up there with my 5150 head, tube replacement only. Plus Mike and his tech team are good people and will help when asked. They do back their amps.

Speedster · December 1st, 2004, 01:14 PM

Geez man, try some NOS preamp tubes in it before you dump it.

My personal favorites are just about anything labelled RCA - especially the 7025 (a version of 12AX7, just quieter and less fragile).

I'd recommend that you contact some NOS tube vendors for suggestions. Mike at => KCA NOS tubes <= is very eager to help and his advice comes willingly and free.

Other NOS tube vendors:
=> Doug's Tubes
=> Angela Instruments

And a new tube vendor that is ga-ga over JJ tubes, my personal favorite new tube.
=> Eurotubes

But I do believe there's not a new tube today that comes close to NOS tubes from the 50's, 60's and '70's.

el_extranjero · December 1st, 2004, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedster

Geez man, try some NOS preamp tubes in it before you dump it. ...

Speedy,
That's pretty much my opinin too. Most people don't consider tubes to be a) consumables, and b) VERY variables.

You wouldn't THINK of judging a new guitar based on the factory strings that had been sitting on it and played by greasy teenagers for 6 months! But EVERYONE is quick to judge a tube amp with complete disregard to the (generic) tubes that have been switch on and off cold and rattled around in shipping! That's why I think it's just "part of the price" to IMMEDIATELY on getting it home to get a set of tubes based on the sound I want (just like I use MY brand and gage of strings).

I think the same goes for the speaker(s). They're an item that the manufacturers put in to meet 'most' situations. YMMV!

I bought my Peavey C50 for ~$300 then spent another ~$300 on tubes and speakers. I now have an amp that is setup for ME and it sounds great!

<shrug>

1612112 · December 1st, 2004, 02:51 PM

Hello I agree with Bruce Kiely. I love the Custom Vibroverbs. I have two of them. Tele players who say they like clean often fail to mention that the clean sound can be full of singing sustain and actually overdriven, but not distorted. It's the compression that's induced by the rectifier that make the Vibroverbs sing without that harsh ultra-linier transformer you're getting with your twin. If one really, really listens to a lot of the sounds one assumes are "clean", they are actually overdriven and sagging like a proper amp. It's weird. You have to be able to turn it up however and the 40 watt setting on the Verbs are still pretty loud. I put 5751's in the first position on the vibrato channel to tame mine and play marbles with the GT tubes that come in it.
IMHO of course.

Mur · December 1st, 2004, 03:21 PM

With BF, you never have to wonder "does my amp sound any good?". Up from there would be Fender tweed. :)

sunburst · December 1st, 2004, 08:45 PM

thanks for all your suggestions guys!

i actually spoke a tech and he too reccomends i take a look at my tubes before making any desicions.....although he doubts it would have anything to do with the extreme brittle highs ( he says that might just be the Tele.....but ive tried the tele through other amps it sounds very sweet)...anyway....

hopefully its a faulty tube that is making it sound so crappy .

i actually played through an ampeg not too long ago and was very impressed....id like to try this vt-22

soldano looks nice too .

i just dont want any amps that give off any overdrive or break up the sound like some blues guitar players like.

its gotta be realllllly clean.

im keeping the suggestion box open....really appreciate your thoughts guys!!!

mechanicdave · December 1st, 2004, 09:36 PM

Have a look inside your amp. At the voulme pot look to see if there is a cap crossing two of the lugs. If so, disconect it from one lug. This cap is on most Fenders without a "Bright" switch. Its function is to emulate the bright switch being on. I play Deluxe Reverb amps with single coil guitars. This is a bright setup. If I were playing a dark sounding pickup, I may want this cap conected.

David Barnett · December 1st, 2004, 10:25 PM

The Gauss or Vega speakers that they put in the Super Twin, which were about the only things back then that would handle the amp's 160W output, might not be the most responsive or toneful 12" cones out there. I'd be afraid to put a pair of C12Ns in there, though, unless you're good friends with a recone shop.

David Barnett · December 1st, 2004, 10:32 PM

I like the clean tone of an old Marshall MkII Super Lead 100.

sunburst · December 2nd, 2004, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanicdave

Have a look inside your amp. At the voulme pot look to see if there is a cap crossing two of the lugs. If so, disconect it from one lug. This cap is on most Fenders without a "Bright" switch. Its function is to emulate the bright switch being on. I play Deluxe Reverb amps with single coil guitars. This is a bright setup. If I were playing a dark sounding pickup, I may want this cap conected.

im no pro but since my supertwin does sport a bright switch im figuring there would be no need for a "bright enhancer" cap wired to the volume pot??

sunburst · December 2nd, 2004, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

The Gauss or Vega speakers that they put in the Super Twin, which were about the only things back then that would handle the amp's 160W output, might not be the most responsive or toneful 12" cones out there. I'd be afraid to put a pair of C12Ns in there, though, unless you're good friends with a recone shop.

interesting to know.........

C12Ns, i take it that these speakers sound better...who makes em??

thanks!

tweedtone · December 3rd, 2004, 11:51 AM

I've got a Fender Blues Deluxe that I bought about ten years ago, first or second year they came out I think, that's my "loud 'n' clean" workhorse ... but I like my "clean" with a bit of hair on it, not Jazz Chorus clean per se. After blowing up two of the stock Eminence speakers, I put an EVM-12L in it and it really came alive, tightening up the lows and smoothing out the high.

It put out 40 watts, plenty for me. I figure if I need more than that, somebody else needs to turn down!

November 27th, 2004, 12:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
sunburst Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 107	need to consider a different amp ...suggestions!!!?? i currently have a fender supertwin amp that i use with my tele(s) and danelectro and although the amp satisfies me in some ways ( its very loud and clean) , i find the preamp section sounds crappy. i thought it was mt tele pickups at first ( cheap mexican stock) but even after replacing the pickups with some custom s.k pups, the sound is still rather crappy .example , the highs are kind of brittle and harsh, mids are also very lifeless and harsh when i spank the guitar at first i thought it was my pickups but i tried my guitar through a beckemer ( company went bankrupt)amp this week and it sounded much better can you guys suggest some good amps that are also very loud and super super clean but have a nice preamp section unlike my supertwin its gotta be tube! thanks!!

November 27th, 2004, 12:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bruce Kiely Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 296	'64 Vobroverb Custom RI I'm very pleased with my Fender '64 Vibroverb Custom RI. Kind of expensive, but I haven't regretted the purchase even for a second. 40 or 50 watts (depending on which mode you operate in) into a 15" speaker. Tons of clean headroom. Loud amp! All tube, point-to-point hand wired. This is a current Fender product, so you should be able to find one in a store somewhere. As always, your mileage may vary ...... best to try before you buy! :-) Good luck, and let us know what you end up with. Cheers, BK

November 27th, 2004, 12:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
stantheman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: White Mountains Posts: 5,071	LOUD & CLEAN is not a bad thing. Changing (6) 6L6's is kinda costly. I try to tell everybody who's not satisfied with their Fender TONE to TRY a Voodoo Labs "Sparkle Drive". I am not a technical guy when it comes to Amps but, I've played through one or two in my day and I know what I like. Before I got The Sparkle my Twin was used for very specific things only now I use it for all the Styles I am familiar with. *** But when it comes to The Bars - a Peavey Classic from the 1970's with a Tech 21 GT-2 is what I desire. IMHO it'll out-muscle a JTM-45 Re-Issue and frankly it really does sound like I've got Eric's Beano Amp. It's kinda of a bummer when I want to get a Victoria Double Deluxe and won't be able to bring it out because of the dramatic increase in the idiot population since 1990 who can now legally enter A Bar. I believe this to be the real reason why Roy Buchanan switched to a JC-120....he saw an increase in the walking brain dead before the rest of us. __________________ Somebody Loan Me A Dime

November 30th, 2004, 03:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
el_extranjero Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: McKinney, TX Age: 49 Posts: 514	Peavey Classic 50 I find my Peavey Classic 50 gives me what you're asking for, but before you buy a new amp, check out www.eurotubes.com and consider having JJ speck out some tubes for what YOU want. You can do the same with Weber speakers. Tell him what you want and he'll build speakers for it! I have the C50 and didn't even CONSIDER playing it stock. I bought it used off ebay and had JJ's tubes and Weber 30watt speakers on order. It sounded good stock, it sounds LUSH with those upgrades. __________________ El Extranjero de la Tierra Extraña ------------------------------------ Dorothy: "How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?" Scarecrow: "I don't know. But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?"

November 30th, 2004, 03:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
BB Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2003 Location: Pacific NW Age: 53 Posts: 3,188	Three words..... Winfield Thomas Elizabeth.

November 27th, 2004, 01:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,494	Loud and clean with good tone? I'd suggest a pre-master-volume silverface Twin Reverb-Amp. An Ampeg VT22 would be another good choice, except that they are not very reliable and use a boadload of oddball tubes. If you don't mind coughing up some bucks, then a blackface Twin Reverb-Amp, Showman-Amp, or Dual Showman-Amp would fit the bill nicely.

November 27th, 2004, 01:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
d. meyers Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: PDX OR Posts: 463 8 Photos	OK, here's my once a week plug for the custom shop Dual Professional- but you had better really be in the market for loud. Really rich beautifull clean, and extremley loud. Did I mention loud?

November 28th, 2004, 11:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
sunburst Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 107	thanks for the replies so far people....i will look into some of these suggestion for sure. in the meantime please ....keep em coming!! i need as much feedback as possible thanks again....much respect :D

November 28th, 2004, 11:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
sunburst Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 107	on a side note: what do you guys think about the idea of getting my supertwin's preamp section modded for "better tone"??

December 1st, 2004, 12:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
sunburst Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 107	el_extranjero interesting suggestion, however i wonder how much of a significant difference changing tubes and/or speakers would make on my amp. i could be wrong but i get the feeling the preamp is the real problem... BB never heard of this Winfield Thomas Elizabeth....will look into it thanks!!

December 1st, 2004, 09:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
rdchapman Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Saratoga, NY Age: 55 Posts: 418	Loud CLean? Ampeg VT-22 if you can handle the weght of one. The output tubes are being produced agian and I've never had mine fail. The preamp circuit is very versatile. I've put this thing up against several SF and BF twins and the Ampeg is much louder. I use mine for my Wurlitzer electric piano live after using Twins for a while. A Tele thru this monster.........Large clubs only. richard

December 1st, 2004, 09:40 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sarge Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pgh,Pa Age: 53 Posts: 3,549	Soldano............... Reverb-O-Sonic 2X12, a bit pricey but I've never had a cleaner amp. Plus the O.D. channel will knock your socks off. A jammin' buddy of mine brought it over one night and it's never left my house, that was 5 years ago and it continues to impress the #% outta me. You can occasionally find them gently used for around a grand but people tend to keep them. Mines a very loud 60 watt. As far as dependability, I'd put it right up there with my 5150 head, tube replacement only. Plus Mike and his tech team are good people and will help when asked. They do back their amps.

December 1st, 2004, 01:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
Speedster TDPRI Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Near Nashville Posts: 12	Geez man, try some NOS preamp tubes in it before you dump it. My personal favorites are just about anything labelled RCA - especially the 7025 (a version of 12AX7, just quieter and less fragile). I'd recommend that you contact some NOS tube vendors for suggestions. Mike at => KCA NOS tubes <= is very eager to help and his advice comes willingly and free. Other NOS tube vendors: => Doug's Tubes => Angela Instruments And a new tube vendor that is ga-ga over JJ tubes, my personal favorite new tube. => Eurotubes But I do believe there's not a new tube today that comes close to NOS tubes from the 50's, 60's and '70's.

December 1st, 2004, 02:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
1612112 Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 229	Re: need to consider a different amp ...suggestions!!!?? Hello I agree with Bruce Kiely. I love the Custom Vibroverbs. I have two of them. Tele players who say they like clean often fail to mention that the clean sound can be full of singing sustain and actually overdriven, but not distorted. It's the compression that's induced by the rectifier that make the Vibroverbs sing without that harsh ultra-linier transformer you're getting with your twin. If one really, really listens to a lot of the sounds one assumes are "clean", they are actually overdriven and sagging like a proper amp. It's weird. You have to be able to turn it up however and the 40 watt setting on the Verbs are still pretty loud. I put 5751's in the first position on the vibrato channel to tame mine and play marbles with the GT tubes that come in it. IMHO of course.

December 1st, 2004, 03:21 PM	#19 (permalink)
Mur Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: California Posts: 772	Any BF Fender . . . With BF, you never have to wonder "does my amp sound any good?". Up from there would be Fender tweed. :)

December 1st, 2004, 08:45 PM	#20 (permalink)
sunburst Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 107	thanks for all your suggestions guys! i actually spoke a tech and he too reccomends i take a look at my tubes before making any desicions.....although he doubts it would have anything to do with the extreme brittle highs ( he says that might just be the Tele.....but ive tried the tele through other amps it sounds very sweet)...anyway.... hopefully its a faulty tube that is making it sound so crappy . i actually played through an ampeg not too long ago and was very impressed....id like to try this vt-22 soldano looks nice too . i just dont want any amps that give off any overdrive or break up the sound like some blues guitar players like. its gotta be realllllly clean. im keeping the suggestion box open....really appreciate your thoughts guys!!!

December 1st, 2004, 09:36 PM	#21 (permalink)
mechanicdave Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 333	Pull your chasis, Have a look inside your amp. At the voulme pot look to see if there is a cap crossing two of the lugs. If so, disconect it from one lug. This cap is on most Fenders without a "Bright" switch. Its function is to emulate the bright switch being on. I play Deluxe Reverb amps with single coil guitars. This is a bright setup. If I were playing a dark sounding pickup, I may want this cap conected.

December 1st, 2004, 10:25 PM	#22 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,494	The Gauss or Vega speakers that they put in the Super Twin, which were about the only things back then that would handle the amp's 160W output, might not be the most responsive or toneful 12" cones out there. I'd be afraid to put a pair of C12Ns in there, though, unless you're good friends with a recone shop.

December 1st, 2004, 10:32 PM	#23 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,494	I like the clean tone of an old Marshall MkII Super Lead 100.

December 3rd, 2004, 11:51 AM	#26 (permalink)
tweedtone Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Age: 42 Posts: 684	I've got a Fender Blues Deluxe that I bought about ten years ago, first or second year they came out I think, that's my "loud 'n' clean" workhorse ... but I like my "clean" with a bit of hair on it, not Jazz Chorus clean per se. After blowing up two of the stock Eminence speakers, I put an EVM-12L in it and it really came alive, tightening up the lows and smoothing out the high. It put out 40 watts, plenty for me. I figure if I need more than that, somebody else needs to turn down!