Help me understand: why does a Matchless cost so much compared to....

[Jeff_K]

Well, they aren't called "Average" after all.

[Jared Purdy]

Dumble? $40,00O? Oh for God's sake that man has an ego that is so disproportionate from delivery that it boggles the mind. Is he smokin' crack 24/7? How is it that Carlos Santana is able to play Mesa, or any of the other players are able to play what is they play and not pay those obsurd fees? He's a jack ass.

[getbent]

Originally Posted by Jared Purdy

Dumble? $40,00O? Oh for God's sake that man has an ego that is so disproportionate from delivery that it boggles the mind. Is he smokin' crack 24/7? How is it that Carlos Santana is able to play Mesa, or any of the other players are able to play what is they play and not pay those obsurd fees? He's a jack ass.

those are for used Dumbles... which Dumble gets nothing for, right?

The guys who love Dumbles include some of the guys who are recognized for being some of the greatest fans of tone (and players) in the electrical age...

Most people don't really know much about Dumble the man. He doesn't advertise, won't build an amp except the way he wants to and he controls what he does. You have every right to think what you want about him and/or his amps... but, if you had something that a niche valued in the same way, you might very well sell it the way he does and have his level of success.

Virtually every mass market modeler includes a model that is trying to capture the Dumble sound... it would be kind of fun to have developed something like that (except for a group of folks who hate you just because...)

Buy the amp that fits your needs. Worrying about what other people do is a fruitless pursuit...

[mr.danny]

Teleamp made a good point: "A good circuit will sound good no matter the construction."

If build/material quality were the sole determinant of tone, I guess every stage in the world would be filled with Matchless rigs, but some pro's apparently "don't know tone" like the hedge fund managers do.

I often say in the studio that sound waves don't care how much the mic cost, and for sure the low buck mics are some of the most useful day to day.

I'm not really looking for an amp which will survive past the next ice age. Lupe & Lilly apparently did a great job on my tweeds, because they're running strong in their sixth decade. I figure they'll stand up just fine for the rest of my playing days.

[teleamp]

Dumble's new prices were $1500-2500, those are now going for$40K-75K... used, supply and demand at work.

Ken Fischers Trainwrecks that sold for $1500 new are going for $35K-50K... used, again, supply and demand at work.

Dumble and Fischers family doesn't make a cent off of used sales.

[getbent]

Originally Posted by mr.danny

Teleamp made a good point: "A good circuit will sound good no matter the construction."... Lupe & Lilly apparently did a great job on my tweeds, because they're running strong in their sixth decade. I figure they'll stand up just fine for the rest of my playing days.

you miss an important characteristic. Lupe and Lilly built your tweeds to the same standards as boutique amps are made today. That is the cost your tweed would be if Lupe and Lilly were still making them in Fullerton....

Instead, the actual adjusted cost is held down by using wave soldering, cheaper, less well engineered components...

so, you are trying to make one point, but actually making the other.

[Poppatwang]

Originally Posted by mr.danny

I guess lawyers and hedge fund managers are still out there buying. I don't know anyone who is an actual player who'd spend $4k on a new boutique amp. If I had an amp budget like that, I'd get a frickin' early sixties AC30 and spend the rest on hookers and blow (just kidding).

I thought the Matchless was born out of John Jorgensen trying to keep his vintage AC30 running on tour. Do I remember correctly?

[rangercaster]

why does a Bentley cost more than a Kia ???

[mr.danny]

We're not talking Bentleys and Kia's, unless you just confused this with the Pathfinder thread ;)

Getbent, you're right. But I still don't get it. There are tons of lovely boutique amps in the $1500 - 3000 range. Above that, I don't know how much better it gets I guess, but I remain dubious.

[teleamp]

Originally Posted by Poppatwang

I thought the Matchless was born out of John Jorgensen trying to keep his vintage AC30 running on tour. Do I remember correctly?

Mark Sampson used to be the go to guy for the pros using AC30's, he set out to build a bullet proof version and succeeded with the DC30. He might have done work for Jorgensen and did make a JJ model.

[teleamp]

The price of amps verses build quality is kind of like the cost of drag racing... You can go to the junk yard and get a strong 454 and put it in a Camero and with small change get down into the low 10's, but to get down to 5-6 second times, your going to spend some bucks.


With vintage AC30's pushing towards $6K, a $3K DC30 is a bargain and is way more reliable.

Like I said above, how many used Matchless Spitfires do you see for sale. that tells me something... if they weren't any good, there would be some on the market. Most of the higher wattage Matchless's on the used market are there because the owners eyes were bigger than his stomach... too much amp.

[teleamp]

What gets me is the guys who have to have a big amp... and an attenuator. :facepalm

[getbent]

Originally Posted by mr.danny

We're not talking Bentleys and Kia's, unless you just confused this with the Pathfinder thread ;)

Getbent, you're right. But I still don't get it. There are tons of lovely boutique amps in the $1500 - 3000 range. Above that, I don't know how much better it gets I guess, but I remain dubious.

teleamp makes some great points..... I'd only add that there is a market for guys who have enough money that the money is NOT the consideration.

For a middle class guy, even paying 2K might be a lot for some, most of us have budget constraints or ideas about what the cost of a good should be, BUT, that does not apply to everyone.

When I really 'don't get' something.. I don't assume that they are necessarily crazy, I assume there are incentives and elements that I don't know about. For people of means, the money part is almost a nuissance... something that is beside the point.

[teleamp]

Now I have myself gassing for a Matchless, I never should have sold my Bad Cat, doh... time to go back to work.

[ibobunot]

Originally Posted by teleamp

Now I have myself gassing for a Matchless,

GregV - Matchless Avalon 30

[unchained]

I'm jonesing bad for a Chieftain and a Clubman. Too bad I cant get both anytime soon.

[Tonemonkey]

I have a 98 Lightning which I bought used for a few hundred bucks more than new DRRI.

When you sit infront of it and play your Tele through it for the first time..........OMG, I mean, OMG! The thing is, everytime you plug into it and start playing you get the moment!
I cleared out my other amps (BJr and Twin) which covered a chunk of the cost.

I gig it, its built like a tank ( and its perty, to boot):

I ain't no Hedge Fund Manager (or any other type of gardener), but I know beautiful rich tone. Hope this helps the Gas Teleamp :

[BoogerRooger]

I'd like to give a Ceriatone 'Muchle$$' a try.

[teleamp]

Originally Posted by Tonemonkey

I have a 98 Lightning which I bought used for a few hundred bucks more than new DRRI.

When you sit infront of it and play your Tele through it for the first time..........OMG, I mean, OMG! The thing is, everytime you plug into it and start playing you get the moment!
I cleared out my other amps (BJr and Twin) which covered a chunk of the cost.

I gig it, its built like a tank ( and its perty, to boot):

I ain't no Hedge Fund Manager (or any other type of gardener), but I know beautiful rich tone. Hope this helps the Gas Teleamp :

Thanks, yes, when I played one chord on my Bad Cat, I picked it up and carried it to the sales counter. I will own another Cub or Lightning again!

[Jared Purdy]

Seriously, If anyone of us was to buy a Matchelss or a higher end Mesa Boogie, or a higher end Soldano, or a Mission, or a Allen, or a Tone King, or just about any other well built amp (and the amps that I listed are just a fraction of the good amps out there, and granted they cover the map with resepct their features and abilities), how many of us would seriously be jonesing for one of those absurdly priced Dumble amps??

I drive a Volvo 850. It gets me from point a to b, safely. I don't need a Bently, and nor do I want one. A Bently to a Kia (or a Volvo for that matter) is not a accurate comparison between a Dumble and any of thhe amps mentioned above. The Bently, which is largely built by hand (just like the Mission, Allen, Mesa, etc), tales 50x longer to build whereas the Kia and the Volvo are both produced on an assembly line with as little human contact as possible.

There are only so many parts that you can put into a single or two channel PTP amp. And the amp builders mentioned are all using the best parts that money can buy. Oh, maybe Dumble has fairys and angels dancing on the inside to give that ethereal feel, and we all know how much fairys and angels cost!

There are some interesting reviews on Harmony Central. For as much money that those suckers paid for their amps ($20k plus) you'd think that all of the categories that rate satisfaction would be a 10. Well, that's not the case. And of the six or so reviewers' who posted their story, two of them are far less than convinced at the sound, features, and what they paid. Can you imagine paying that much only to be unsatisfied? If you've got money to burn, like some rock god, then $20k is probably just pocket change, so if you spend money on something like that and don't like so what, right? Well for the 98% of the rest of us mortals out here that is not the case. My father (God rest his soul) often said: "There's a fool born every minute, and you're just dying to prove it"!