gave my Delta Blues a good workout

Jim L · September 13th, 2004, 11:20 AM

We played a block party/cookout thing in NH Saturday, and not know what I was walking into, I left the Holland at home, taking the PV instead. Played our first set with my stock Heritage 535. Had the amp on about 5-6 (out of 12). Ony pedal I used was my Sparkle Drive for a little boost here and there. I realized one song into the set that this was the first time since I got the 535 that I've played it through the PV at a decent volume. I was really surprised by the amount of bite I was getting w/o touching the Sparkle Drive.

I was on the clean channel, and in the past, it's always stayed very clean. But I haven't gigged this guitar/amp combination at good volume. Our keyboard player thought it was the best tone he's heard from me. I have to admit, it was sweet.

This coming weekend we play outdoors again, at a classic car show/benefit. Planning on using the Holland there, so I can compare... I expect the Holland to be a bit more BF Fender-ish than the PV. Probably be a bit more touch sensitive and dynamic... but heck, the PV really impressed me Saturday.

Joe-Bob · September 13th, 2004, 12:49 PM

Amps sound really different once you turn up past what would be bearable inside the house. I think it makes them happy.

LordJP · September 15th, 2004, 12:34 PM

Last night I gigged my DB at 8 (out of 12) on the vol and plugged straight in from my 52RI...

Had a fantastic smooth, punchy OD with lots of clarity and sustain, far outside the $500 price range of this amp. Toggling the vol pot on my 52RI cleaned it up nicely.

It's my belief that the amp doesn't actually get that much louder past 5/6 on the clean vol, you just get varying amounts of (highly usable) powertube OD.

I had posted about getting a decent punchy od before on the DB and had lots of helpful suggestions inc. pedals and retubing V2 (just received a set of JJs from eurotubes which will go in tonight).

I think I will continue with this purist approach- although no pedals is like being naked!

Jim L · September 15th, 2004, 10:33 PM

My Holland is similar in that once I get past around 6 it doesn't seem to get too much louder, just raunchier.

I bought the DB slightly used, and the owner had retubed it with some nice NOS el84s. I actually don't think any of the tubes are factory original.

We're playing outdoors again this weekend at a car show, but I'm playign the Holland. It's more BF Fenderish to my ears, and I have yet to play a gig where I can open it up. Will surely try to compare...

pepeteus · September 16th, 2004, 09:04 AM

Hi,

It's nice to hear comments from the fellow DB users. I have a DB with an 15" speaker. I'm using it maybe a bit differently than you (not cranking), but I've found that I like it best with a lower gain tube in V3. I don't really use the OD channel but overall I like the sound is much more balanced and clearer with 5751 or 12AT7 in V3. Now I'm prefering the 5751, but sometimes I feel I'm kind of torn between the two. 5751 smooths out the treble which I find a little spikey or harsh sometimes in these amps. There are lots of mods in the blueguitar.org which are supposed to make the treble and upper midrange sound better. I think it requires some cap changes etc. Someday I'm gonna try some of those mods.

Anyway, we try to keep the stage or rehearsal volume as low as possible (my volume pot is maybe around 4 because of the lower gain V3 and single coil guitars). So, I get the dirt from pedals and I feel that the amp takes OD pedals better with the lower gain tube as a phase inverter. Otherwise the pedals tend to sound somewhat muddy and the amp chokes easier. I also find the clean sounds are sparklier this way. You might wanna try it if you haven't already. At the moment I have a NOS GE 5751 in V3 but I've also used Mullard 12AT7. All in all I prefer to use old production tubes in the preamp. In the power amp I have JJ's and I've used Sovtek there too.

James, that JJ ECC81 (I recall from the other thread?) in V2 should make the OD channel more usable especially for smooth low gain blues sounds. And overall it gives the OD channel wider range of usable tones. I've found that the JJ ECC83 in V1 is too dark and not sparkly enough. Would you tell us how you like it after tube swapping?

-pepe

Jim L · September 22nd, 2004, 11:13 AM

I noticed in listening to playback of our outdoor gig that the amp seemed to be distorting more later in the gig, when I had turned up the clean channel a little bit more (maybe on 6 instead of 5)... but it wasn't a nice distortion. Yesterday I had the house to myself, so I cranked it up in the basement with my Heritage 535, and it sounds to me like the speaker is having trouble at that volume (5-6) with the notes on the low E string, like it can't handle the bass notes without breaking up the speaker. Again, it's not a nice sound. Granted, that's pretty loud (surprisingly loud for a 30 watt amp, IMHO) and I usually keep it no higher than 4 at bar gigs, but still...

Anyone else run into stock speaker problems with the 1x15 PV DB? Should I be thinking about a Weber California? I was hoping not to put money into the amp for the near future, but I might need to. I like clean headroom, but at the same time, I was digging the way the amp was starting to give me a bit of overdrive with the 535 at gig volume... it's just over that volume the stock speaker appears to lose it.

brassnuts · September 22nd, 2004, 12:49 PM

Jim, did you buy this new or used? I never had this problem with the stock spkrs in my DB 2x10 but I did have a similar problem with the stock spkr in my Blues Classic when it was new...about 8 years ago. This was the version of the C50 with the 15" spkr which they discontinued. Anyway, I had the spkr replaced under warranty and that took care of it. Like you, I noticed a rattle and fizzy effect on the low notes.

Jim L · September 22nd, 2004, 01:13 PM

Bought from a player in N'awlins who certainly didn't abuse it (looks brand new). He had swapped out all the stock tubes for better quality ones, but left the speaker stock. Not sure if the warranty is transferable or not.

I've read several comments from 1x15 DB owners that they noticed the speaker being a bit unable to handle those bass string notes at high volumes. Might be worth trying something like the Weber California in there seeing that I really do like the amp and do gig with it.

pepeteus · September 23rd, 2004, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim L

I've read several comments from 1x15 DB owners that they noticed the speaker being a bit unable to handle those bass string notes at high volumes. Might be worth trying something like the Weber California in there seeing that I really do like the amp and do gig with it.

I've been thinking those Weber Californias too. As for the speaker rattle you mentioned - I don't know 'cause I never play that loud either. But I have a feeling that with a better speaker this amp would be really good. It's just that there aren't many 16 ohm 15 inchers around. At least here in Finland. Weber has of course but you must order one direct from the States and pay taxes and customs. :( Of course I could use an 8 ohmer too with a dummy plug in the extension out jack, but better off with an 16 ohm.

If you are going to try California or any other, I'd be really interested to hear your opinions! In fact what bothers me is that how they handle overdriven or heavily overdriven sounds from the pedals. I've heard that they are more of clean speakers? What about Jensen C15N re-issue?

Rob DiStefano · September 23rd, 2004, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim L

... Might be worth trying something like the Weber California in there seeing that I really do like the amp and do gig with it.

Or a Weber 15F150.

Jim L · September 23rd, 2004, 10:40 AM

what's are the major differences between that and the Cali?

Rob DiStefano · September 23rd, 2004, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim L

what's are the major differences between that and the Cali?

IMO, the Cali will provide the ultimate headroom at higher volumes, and it's physically heavier (60 oz mag vs. 40 oz mag) than the 12F150 ... I like the 12F150 for added "warmth" when pushed hard ... it's li'l cousin, the 10F150 that's in my Champ is *amazing*, with punchy lows and sweet highs - it sounded beautiful at band practice last nite. My opinions, YMMV.

Jim L · September 27th, 2004, 10:41 AM

The deal I'm getting on the 15" Cali is a good one, so I'm going to give it a try. I definitely like clean tone. Prefer the tubes provide break-up, not the speaker, so hopefully this will be "the one."

Seeing that I was a bit concerned about the PV DB's speaker issue, I left it home and took my Holland Lil Jimi to our gig on Fri night (we only had one set as we were opening for someone, and I originally thought the Holland would be a bit too much amp for the room). Turned out the Holland was fine. I couldn't crank it, but by the end of the set I think I had it around 5 (of 12).... I don't think the amp gets significantly louder after 6 or so anyways... just dirtier. The Holland's original owner swapped out the original speaker for a hig-powered Celestion which I really dig, but I'm not knowledgable enough about speakers to compare/contrast. So I figure trying the Cali is the best way for me to really know if it's right for me. And it's not like I can't unload it if I don't like it enough.

September 13th, 2004, 11:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	gave my Delta Blues a good workout We played a block party/cookout thing in NH Saturday, and not know what I was walking into, I left the Holland at home, taking the PV instead. Played our first set with my stock Heritage 535. Had the amp on about 5-6 (out of 12). Ony pedal I used was my Sparkle Drive for a little boost here and there. I realized one song into the set that this was the first time since I got the 535 that I've played it through the PV at a decent volume. I was really surprised by the amount of bite I was getting w/o touching the Sparkle Drive. I was on the clean channel, and in the past, it's always stayed very clean. But I haven't gigged this guitar/amp combination at good volume. Our keyboard player thought it was the best tone he's heard from me. I have to admit, it was sweet. This coming weekend we play outdoors again, at a classic car show/benefit. Planning on using the Holland there, so I can compare... I expect the Holland to be a bit more BF Fender-ish than the PV. Probably be a bit more touch sensitive and dynamic... but heck, the PV really impressed me Saturday.

September 13th, 2004, 12:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Joe-Bob Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Age: 46 Posts: 4,017	Amps sound really different once you turn up past what would be bearable inside the house. I think it makes them happy. __________________ "German is the language God uses when He really means business." --FZ

September 15th, 2004, 12:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
LordJP TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 14	True about the bite Last night I gigged my DB at 8 (out of 12) on the vol and plugged straight in from my 52RI... Had a fantastic smooth, punchy OD with lots of clarity and sustain, far outside the $500 price range of this amp. Toggling the vol pot on my 52RI cleaned it up nicely. It's my belief that the amp doesn't actually get that much louder past 5/6 on the clean vol, you just get varying amounts of (highly usable) powertube OD. I had posted about getting a decent punchy od before on the DB and had lots of helpful suggestions inc. pedals and retubing V2 (just received a set of JJs from eurotubes which will go in tonight). I think I will continue with this purist approach- although no pedals is like being naked!

September 15th, 2004, 10:33 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	lord james... My Holland is similar in that once I get past around 6 it doesn't seem to get too much louder, just raunchier. I bought the DB slightly used, and the owner had retubed it with some nice NOS el84s. I actually don't think any of the tubes are factory original. We're playing outdoors again this weekend at a car show, but I'm playign the Holland. It's more BF Fenderish to my ears, and I have yet to play a gig where I can open it up. Will surely try to compare...

September 16th, 2004, 09:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
pepeteus TDPRI Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Finland Posts: 81	Tubes... Hi, It's nice to hear comments from the fellow DB users. I have a DB with an 15" speaker. I'm using it maybe a bit differently than you (not cranking), but I've found that I like it best with a lower gain tube in V3. I don't really use the OD channel but overall I like the sound is much more balanced and clearer with 5751 or 12AT7 in V3. Now I'm prefering the 5751, but sometimes I feel I'm kind of torn between the two. 5751 smooths out the treble which I find a little spikey or harsh sometimes in these amps. There are lots of mods in the blueguitar.org which are supposed to make the treble and upper midrange sound better. I think it requires some cap changes etc. Someday I'm gonna try some of those mods. Anyway, we try to keep the stage or rehearsal volume as low as possible (my volume pot is maybe around 4 because of the lower gain V3 and single coil guitars). So, I get the dirt from pedals and I feel that the amp takes OD pedals better with the lower gain tube as a phase inverter. Otherwise the pedals tend to sound somewhat muddy and the amp chokes easier. I also find the clean sounds are sparklier this way. You might wanna try it if you haven't already. At the moment I have a NOS GE 5751 in V3 but I've also used Mullard 12AT7. All in all I prefer to use old production tubes in the preamp. In the power amp I have JJ's and I've used Sovtek there too. James, that JJ ECC81 (I recall from the other thread?) in V2 should make the OD channel more usable especially for smooth low gain blues sounds. And overall it gives the OD channel wider range of usable tones. I've found that the JJ ECC83 in V1 is too dark and not sparkly enough. Would you tell us how you like it after tube swapping? -pepe

September 22nd, 2004, 11:13 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	Speaker distortion in my DB? I noticed in listening to playback of our outdoor gig that the amp seemed to be distorting more later in the gig, when I had turned up the clean channel a little bit more (maybe on 6 instead of 5)... but it wasn't a nice distortion. Yesterday I had the house to myself, so I cranked it up in the basement with my Heritage 535, and it sounds to me like the speaker is having trouble at that volume (5-6) with the notes on the low E string, like it can't handle the bass notes without breaking up the speaker. Again, it's not a nice sound. Granted, that's pretty loud (surprisingly loud for a 30 watt amp, IMHO) and I usually keep it no higher than 4 at bar gigs, but still... Anyone else run into stock speaker problems with the 1x15 PV DB? Should I be thinking about a Weber California? I was hoping not to put money into the amp for the near future, but I might need to. I like clean headroom, but at the same time, I was digging the way the amp was starting to give me a bit of overdrive with the 535 at gig volume... it's just over that volume the stock speaker appears to lose it.

September 22nd, 2004, 12:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
brassnuts TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Leominster, Massachusetts Posts: 90	Jim, did you buy this new or used? I never had this problem with the stock spkrs in my DB 2x10 but I did have a similar problem with the stock spkr in my Blues Classic when it was new...about 8 years ago. This was the version of the C50 with the 15" spkr which they discontinued. Anyway, I had the spkr replaced under warranty and that took care of it. Like you, I noticed a rattle and fizzy effect on the low notes.

September 22nd, 2004, 01:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	bought it slightly used Bought from a player in N'awlins who certainly didn't abuse it (looks brand new). He had swapped out all the stock tubes for better quality ones, but left the speaker stock. Not sure if the warranty is transferable or not. I've read several comments from 1x15 DB owners that they noticed the speaker being a bit unable to handle those bass string notes at high volumes. Might be worth trying something like the Weber California in there seeing that I really do like the amp and do gig with it.

September 23rd, 2004, 10:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	Rob... what's are the major differences between that and the Cali?

September 27th, 2004, 10:41 AM	#13 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	Gonna try the Cali The deal I'm getting on the 15" Cali is a good one, so I'm going to give it a try. I definitely like clean tone. Prefer the tubes provide break-up, not the speaker, so hopefully this will be "the one." Seeing that I was a bit concerned about the PV DB's speaker issue, I left it home and took my Holland Lil Jimi to our gig on Fri night (we only had one set as we were opening for someone, and I originally thought the Holland would be a bit too much amp for the room). Turned out the Holland was fine. I couldn't crank it, but by the end of the set I think I had it around 5 (of 12).... I don't think the amp gets significantly louder after 6 or so anyways... just dirtier. The Holland's original owner swapped out the original speaker for a hig-powered Celestion which I really dig, but I'm not knowledgable enough about speakers to compare/contrast. So I figure trying the Cali is the best way for me to really know if it's right for me. And it's not like I can't unload it if I don't like it enough.