Blonde Bassman 50W 1961.. Please help :)

[hedegaardo1]

Hello !

I've been offered to buy a Fender Blonde Bassman 50W top from 1961... It is in great condition but a few of the capacitors have been changed and a few other minor components...

In Denmark things just are more expensive and it priced to about 1.580 USD... What would you say this is worth? .. Really does the changed capacitors play a big roll?

Mathias

[Wally]

The recap doesn't hurt the value if it was properly done. IF the amp is all-original....meaning that major components such as transformers and speaker are correct and the circuit has not been modified...that is a good price, imho. IF it is a '61, it should have the dark grille cloth and a tone-ring cabinet....meaning there is only one 12" speaker. The hole that you see from the front looks like the cab carries a 15"...but that is not the speaker but on ly the hole that is cut in the front board and into which the tone ring sits with a gap of about 1 1/2" all the way around it.
An all-oriignal '61 BAssman should command a bit more maoney than that here in the USA....and even more in Europe, I would think....in exc cond, that is.

[gionnio]

I sold one that had been completely recapped and had the original cabinet [minus the metal legs and head clamp assembly] but not the original speaker for 1,200.00 USD about 18 months ago. It sold on Craig's List for my asking price in a New York nanosecond. I was surprised because it was so un-original.

I should have asked for more...

[imsilly]

Find out what exactly has been swapped out and if anyone has meddled with the circuit during those changes. Then take into consideration the cosmetic condition when finalising a price. Also does it have a matching speaker cabinet, they are very expensive and hard to find here in Europe? Finally don't buy it if you don't like the sound, it can be hard not buying those things on looks alone.

P.S.

Post some pics if you have any.

[hedegaardo1]

Well it's only the top so no combo or speakers! ..







These are the only pictures I've got of it!

[Wally]

Originally Posted by gionnio

I sold one that had been completely recapped and had the original cabinet [minus the metal legs and head clamp assembly] but not the original speaker for 1,200.00 USD about 18 months ago. It sold on Craig's List for my asking price in a New York nanosecond. I was surprised because it was so un-original.

I should have asked for more...

A fellow once told me that a seller can always come down on the price...but it is very difficult to go up on an asking price! LOL ACtually, though, I have seen someone go up on the asking price, once....and get it. IT just doesn't happen too often. IF a seller has just the right item and the buyer gets the hook in the mouth...strange things can happen. Going up on the price is usually a way to run a prospect off when the prospect is wasting one's time.
But, as Taj Mahal sang....
"Any fish bites if you've got good bait.."

[Wally]

I don't know the market over there. That head would have to be totally correct and sound fantastic for it to even entertain my thoughts of trying to talk the price down....and I would try to talk the price down here in the U.S. IMHO, that tone ring cab is a big part of the special thing about a '61 BAssman. Big, smooth sonics....and a good growl when pushed. IF the cab were with the amp, the value almost doubles.
You have to know the originality of the amp before giving that kind of money for it.

[hedegaardo1]

Originally Posted by Wally

I don't know the market over there. That head would have to be totally correct and sound fantastic for it to even entertain my thoughts of trying to talk the price down....and I would try to talk the price down here in the U.S. IMHO, that tone ring cab is a big part of the special thing about a '61 BAssman. Big, smooth sonics....and a good growl when pushed. IF the cab were with the amp, the value almost doubles.
You have to know the originality of the amp before giving that kind of money for it.

Well I think the head is great even with marshall greenbacks to be honest... But how do I check the originality of the amp?

[laird]

You can ask the seller for pictures of the transformer codes and the cap replacement job. In the US the average sale price for a '61 Bassman, including the speaker cabinet, is $1100 USD. 1580 for just the head, even in Denmark, would be too high for me. You could build that head out of top quality components for less than half that price.

-Laird

[Wally]

IF you are going to consider the amp, go here and study the particulars...

http://www.superchamp.dk/papers/dati..._tube_amps.htm

and then try to get it for less even if everything is correct about the amp. The seller should be willing to pull the chassis and show everything about that amp at that asking price.

[jguitarman]

Originally Posted by laird

You can ask the seller for pictures of the transformer codes and the cap replacement job. In the US the average sale price for a '61 Bassman, including the speaker cabinet, is $1100 USD. 1580 for just the head, even in Denmark, would be too high for me. You could build that head out of top quality components for less than half that price.

-Laird

I don't what you're looking at but I totally disagree. They are way more expensive than $1100.

http://codekinesis.mine.nu:3000/price/list_history

[Wally]

I agree. A '61 BAssman....head plus the cab... is a $2K amp in exc cond. Thatis down from 2 years ago....it lost about a 1/3 of its value with the 'collapse'. The head is valeud at $1279 according to codekinesis report on sales. The $1,580 in Europe might not be
out of bounds if everything is correct about the amp. IF the transformers aren't original or if the circuit has been butchered, all bets are off, imo.....unless of course the propective buyer has the experience to hear something that they like compared to what they have heard in the past. That would be a player's buy...pay for what you like adn the market can go to. I prefer to have the orignality if I am paying market price for vintage equipment.

[imsilly]

To put things in perspective I sold a 1962 Bandmaster Head (still have non-original cab to go with it) for £800. It's an equally cool amp, but less sort after amp then the Bassman. So I'd think anything over and around £800 seems about right for a Blonde Fender Amp heads of the period. I'd obviously try to get it for less, but I'd have to agree around $1200 is what I'd pay at most.

Also they are way to loud to play at home, unless you live alone on a farm in the middle of nowhere. Something to consider on a Bassman particularly because they sound best either combined with cool effects like an echoplex and outboard reverb or dimed! I'd pick one up in a jiffy if I had a sound proof room. This means you always have a lot of leverage as a buyer with bigger amps because the seller knows that only a small amount of people have the balls to buy a beast like this.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by imsilly

To put things in perspective I sold a 1962 Bandmaster Head (still have non-original cab to go with it) for £800. It's an equally cool amp, but less sort after amp then the Bassman. So I'd think anything over and around £800 seems about right for a Blonde Fender Amp heads of the period. I'd obviously try to get it for less, but I'd have to agree around $1200 is what I'd pay at most.

Also they are way to loud to play at home, unless you live alone on a farm in the middle of nowhere. Something to consider on a Bassman particularly because they sound best either combined with cool effects like an echoplex and outboard reverb or dimed! I'd pick one up in a jiffy if I had a sound proof room. This means you always have a lot of leverage as a buyer with bigger amps because the seller knows that only a small amount of people have the balls to buy a beast like this.

To put things in better perspective, the current value in the US of a '62 BAndmaster head in exc cond averages $976 USD according to that codekinesis site, which tracks sales. Imsilly got 800 pounds for his Bandmaster. That is $1,183.60 today...almost what the '61 BAssman is worth over here. Someone gave imsilly a bit much for that Bandmaster....IF it were in the U.S. ONce again, all of this is in Europe. The '61 BAssman head is valued at $1279. Blonde tolex does not the value make....it is the model and the year that determine what is what, imho. The maroon griled '61's are the most valuable Blonde FEnders, and the Bassman amps are more valuable than the BAndmasters. Try a blonde Twin on for size.
I restate my position that if this '61 Bassman head is all-original except for the electrolytic caps, the price is not an unfair price to ask in Europe...and I will restate that I would certainly try to get it for less if I could.

[imsilly]

Yeah I think being in Europe totally distorts value because of shipping, taxes and rarity. Basically I think the £800 I got for my Bandmaster, which would be something like $1200 should help you calculate the relative value of the Bassman. If a Bassman is worth around $1200 in the States and a Bandmaster is around $900 the relative value of a Bassman when you take into account it being in Europe it should be around $1600.

Again I repeat that is not what I'd want to pay because around that price you enter total rip off territory. It really boils down to if you want to get a bargain or not. I always try to keep in mind if a seller really wanted the item they wouldn't have it for sale, so you can really push them on price.

Being in Denmark adds to the problem. Here in London things like that turn up frequently enough that I'd not feel obliged to pay full price. I dunno if the same can be said about Denmark.

[ovalissimo]

That price seems about right.

It would cost the same here in Norway.

[Wally]

I have a philosophy about amps and guitars that can at times set the market a bit to
one side. IME, sometimes one happens upon an amp or an instrument that is something special. It takes experience to know when you have happened upon something like this, but if one has that experience and does find that special thing....it is hard to walk away even if the price is above the market evaluation. I have had a '64 Super REverb that was to my ears and imho superior to every other BF or SF Super REverb that I have had, heard, or worked on. The fellow who owns it now had to pay me enough to get it away from me. The same thing with one BF TR....it drew a premium price..because I didn't really want to sell it...and he really wanted it because of the sonics. Yes, the premiium NOS 7581's and the two EV's in there pushed the price, but the sonics...even through other speakers...were special. He heard it, and he wanted it. IME, those special things come around fairly rarely, but when they do and if you recognize it and if you can afford it; there may be justification to buy it. When you are talking vintage pickups adn transformers, sometimes the windings make a certain pickup or transformer soemthing out of the ordinary...in a good way. Soemtimtes those variables maek the piece out of the ordinary in a bad way, too.
ON that side of the coin, I have seen great looking instruments or amps that were dogs when put to the reality test; and there was no way I was going to get close to the market evaluation if I wanted to buy them.

[hedegaardo1]

I just got one problem now.. He lives in the other end of the country and doesn't have a cabinet, that's why he is selling it.. So I guess it's gonna be a hard time to try it :/ .. I gotta fix something, I really in love with the early Bassmans with the presence knob especially in blonde!

[Wally]

What exactly makes you love the blonde BAssman amps? There are 3 versions...and all are a bit different from the others. IF you are a Brian Setzer fan, this amp is not the one for you. He plays the 6G6-B...the last version. The difference in the rectification is not the only difference, either.

[hedegaardo1]

Originally Posted by Wally

What exactly makes you love the blonde BAssman amps? There are 3 versions...and all are a bit different from the others. IF you are a Brian Setzer fan, this amp is not the one for you. He plays the 6G6-B...the last version. The difference in the rectification is not the only difference, either.

Uhm I never thought of that... I never heard Brian Setzer before (in search of the bassman amp) ... I just heard it sometime and then fell in love with it bassman I heard.. ehm Im pretty sure it was from 61..


::EDIT::

I know this isn't a blonde but it is a bassman with presence knob.. I know Frusciante use some effects on here too but I really dig the clean tones he gets



It is just an example of what I like about it... also these driven/distored sounds it can make is great!