'70s s/f Vibro Champ - grossly overrated?

[Guitarmadcat]

...well that's what I think, anyway. I've had 2 and get the same result - yea, clean is ok-ish but not good but wind her up and a thin, raspy mush emanates - reminiscent of a fried speaker - bitterly disappointing. I'm not expecting GREAT things from this diminutive amp but the best thing I can say is it's mediocre - bordering on poor.

I've run her through a Celestion-loaded 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12, all sounding the same, but louder. Valves (sorry - tubes to you guys!) have been changed to GTs but to no avail.

The purpose of this post is not to upset VC owners but to see if any other owners have been similarly disappointed, or if there's some advice you can give to help me get the best tone. Maybe I'm missing something?

These amps get such glowing praise here so I'm willing to consider any advice. Incidentally, I'm not allergic to the 'American Sound' as I have a '70s Deluxe Reverb with Utah spkr and a red knob Champ 12 which I LOVE! (Although the red knob's crap orig speaker has been changed for a Celestion Vintage 30).

All else failing, anyone in UK make me an offer for it?!

Thanx in anticipation guys.

[Groovey Records]

All the people that mod these amps for louder volume by using bigger speakers are missing the point.


With it's original configuration with an 8" speaker the tone is thick and fat.

That is the one trick the Amp does better then any other.

Think intro to little wing.

It's not a tweed but it's not a clean amp with any headroom.

Don't try and make it what its not

[Guitarmadcat]

"All the people that mod these amps for louder volume by using bigger speakers are missing the point."

Believe me friend, it's tone I want, not volume.

[Billm]

Has it been recapped? I had a Vibro-Champ in here not too long ago that sounded rather anemic. Fresh electrolytics made a big improvement in tone.

[Groovey Records]

Originally Posted by Guitarmadcat

"All the people that mod these amps for louder volume by using bigger speakers are missing the point."

Believe me friend, it's tone I want, not volume.

Try a Weber 8125A in the correct baffle and Cab

about 9.2 on the vol bass and treb, trem and speed to taste

A large part of Layla was recorded with Champs and VC's

It will never be a clean amp.

I agree about the 70's Oxford speakers

[popthree]

i have a champ..non vibro model.. and i think it sounds great.. whether through the 8" speaker, or through a 2x12 cab loaded with silver bells. maybe your VC needs some work?

[Durtdog]

I think it's largely a matter of opinion.

I've had 2 over the years, and I don't care for them at all.

[castpolymer]

I love my new ( to me ) Bronco. I found it to be a bit brighter than my '66 Champ. Great little amp!

[Groovey Records]

[Guitarmadcat]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

Mine DEFINITELY don't sound like that!

But then, mine's a '77 and that's a '65 - difference?

[Groovey Records]

None

Essentially the same circuit

Different cosmetics and cabinet and baffle construction.

The Champ and VC are Single ended Class A amps of 4/6 watts of power

The BF & SF VC, The BF & SF Champ & the Bronco have essentially the same Class A Pre and Power section circuits.

Try the Weber 8125A speaker for about $80.

Much IMHO nicer then the Weber signature or other options

[Guitarmadcat]

Ok Groovy - I'll see if I can track one down but they're generally unavailable in UK.

[Groovey Records]

http://www.tedweber.com/

ships overseas

[muchxs]

Unlike YouTube I can get all three clips to play simultaneously here. Sounds like Guitar Shop Cacophony...

Raises possiblities, though.

[strat a various]

I use my SF Champ for recording. It is my best sounding amp for subtle, low distortion stuff. It breaks up gradually and I can get complex cleans on through bluesy break-up with it. The ones I try in stores all sound terrible, but nothing a speaker swap and a cap job doesn't fix. I never crank it past 7 or 8 on the volume.

[Durtdog]

That sound holds no magic for me.

As I said, largely just a matter of taste.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by strat a various

I use my SF Champ for recording. It is my best sounding amp for subtle, low distortion stuff. It breaks up gradually and I can get complex cleans on through bluesy break-up with it. The ones I try in stores all sound terrible, but nothing a speaker swap and a cap job doesn't fix. I never crank it past 7 or 8 on the volume.

Originally Posted by Durtdog

That sound holds no magic for me.

As I said, largely just a matter of taste.

It's a matter of working the guitar controls and adjusting your picking dynamics. They're pretty one dimensional if you just bash away at it but that's it's own tone as well... the elusive '60s Garage Band tone!

The original 8" Jensen is a matter of taste. Some of them do a speaker breakup thing you can't get away from, if you don't dig it you don't dig it.

The Jensen is the one to have for stock speakers. Weber's Sig 8S is a screaming bargain and the one to have in aftermarket speakers.

What would Leo do? He'd use the least expensive speaker that would to the job properly, that's what he'd do.

[Groovey Records]

Original speakers were Oxford's

[tiktok]

For me, BF/SF Champs and Vibrochamps are wonderful clean machines, and I'd love to get that tone in a louder package. I think they sound great stock--in their intended use, i.e. quiet home rehearsal and recording. I've owned four over the years.

I wouldn't pay more than $400 for a VC though.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

Original speakers were Oxford's

& Jensens & CTS & even Clevelands if you look hard enough.