Speaker changes.. from Celestions to JBL

[jefcon1]

This weekend I pulled the Celestion G12s out of my TRII and put the original JBL E120s back in. What a beautiful sound! I forgot how crystal clear the JBLs were. It sounds like you can hear the windings on the strings. Especially the 052. Tight percussive bass and a very even, natural midrange. Not harsh at all. It sounds like glass.

The Pull for Bright switch now has its normal functionality returned. The G12s liked to roll off and break up the highs, so 'Bright' was not an accurate description of what you heard when you pulled the switch. It just changed the character of the break up. It never sounded bad, but it wasn't anything like the implied clarity I associate with the word 'bright'. It was kind of a 'Pull for less muddy' switch.

I put the Celestions in about 5 years ago, because, other than the massive weight of the amp with the jbls in it, I was also playing grittier stuff back then using my SG and Mesa Boogie V-twin pedal. The G12s definitely brought that sound to life, but now I think I've got that covered too...

I put one of the G12s into my Peavey Special 130. (The Scorpion bit the dust several years ago) Now, either using the V-twin as a stomp box, or as a full preamp plugged into the Peavey's power amp input, I've got all the grit I'll ever need. The clean channel on the Peavey has a little leak-over from the lead channel, but the G12 makes it sound like it was intentional...or maybe not. I'm having fun in the garage with it anyway.

But I'm overjoyed at having the twin back to its normal self. All I need now is to get the reverb hum resolved and it will be 100%. I just hope I remember how good this amp sounds the next time I try to move it. My back hurts just from installing the speakers!

Before:

After:

[atroy]

That's cool. A couple minutes before I saw your post, I was researching Jim Thomas' (The Mermen) rig to see how he was getting his beautiful sound and saw that he uses JBL E120s.

I'd like to hear some clips from that amp of yours. Looks pretty sweet.

[chezdeluxe]

I have a JBL k120 in my DRRI and JBL MI 12s in a 2x12 cab to go with my Yamaha SS G100 head.
The sound of the JBLs is crystal clear and articulate which is how I like it.

[jefcon1]

Originally Posted by chezdeluxe

...JBL MI 12s in a 2x12 cab to go with my Yamaha SS G100 head...

The day I went to pick up my Twin from the store, back in 1989 , a used G100-212 combo had just come in. I played through it while they were were finishing the sale on my twin and I was getting a serious urge to back out of the sale and get the Yamaha instead. I never really second guessed once I got the twin home, but I think its one of those times when I would have been very happy with either choice. And they are both well suited to a nice set of JBLs.

[strat a various]

JBLs tend to get a lot of disrespect in this forum, with some of the local experts hauling out their worn-out adjectives like "ice-pick highs", "sterile", "harsh", etc. These speakers are famous and in high demand for a reason ... they sound great. Whether they suit a particular style is subjective. For big full clean tones, they're the standard all others are compared to.

[Mik]

Very useful info jefcon1 thanks.

[Larry F]

Two questions. First, I like a little OD from the amp, but I also like to hear the details. Does anyone know if the sound of a over-driven guitar has more details in the JBLs?

Second, are the Weber Californias his version of the JBLs?

[jefcon1]

I was taking guitar lessons from a local jazz guitar hero and, when I told him what speakers were in my amp (JBL), he grabbed his temples, cringed his teeth and said he needed an aspirin. All this drama over just talking about an amp that was 15 miles away, safely tucked away in my studio. I held the guys opinion in such high regard, that, it was part of what motivated me to eventually replace the JBLs with Celestions. I don't want my guitar sound to be responsible for someone's headaches and dental work. I haven't wanted that since 1989.

I am glad I put the Celestions in and I'm glad I took them back out. Both sounds are very good for different applications. I wouldn't want to tell anyone that one sound was more 'right' for the amp than another. If I were planning on using a distortion pedal and humbuckers through the amp on a regular basis, I'd probably rather have the G12s back in it. I think the not-so-clean through the G12s could be a better compromise than distortion through the JBLs, depending on the amount of gain. For me, right now, I am enjoying being awestruck by how clean this amp really is. I really had either forgotten or never took the time to truly appreciate it before I flanged and chorused it into oblivion..

But the best thing to come out of the experience was learning how much effect speakers have on the behavior of an amplifier and, in turn, the way I play. I've been playing guitar for 30 years, but I always seem to stumble on some revolutionary discovery that someone else might have discovered after playing for 6 months, but gives me an "aha" moment that inspires me to try new things.

[woodman]

JBLs don't suit my style at all, but if your style is big clean sound, yeah, they're top o' the line — none better, IMO.

[Groovey Records]

Thanks for the pictures I thought you were talking Two Rock TR

Now a Twin I can appreciate JBL's & a big Twin is sweet

One day I will have a roadie

[jefcon1]

Originally Posted by woodman

JBLs don't suit my style at all, but if your style is big clean sound, yeah, they're top o' the line — none better, IMO.

Woodman- Your band is great! I want to know if you ever come anywhere near Raleigh so I can come see you guys.

JBL and Celestions might be the polar opposites of the guitar speaker world. I'm sure there is a lot of middle ground out there that I've never tried.

[macaroonie]

Originally Posted by Larry F

Two questions. First, I like a little OD from the amp, but I also like to hear the details. Does anyone know if the sound of a over-driven guitar has more details in the JBLs?

Second, are the Weber Californias his version of the JBLs?

Yes but Weber is in a little turmoil at present. Try also searching for Beyma Liberty 8 , it is a direct clone of D/E/K 120

[Groovey Records]

Originally Posted by macaroonie

Yes but Weber is in a little turmoil at present. Try also searching for Beyma Liberty 8 , it is a direct clone of D/E/K 120

I'd like to nip that rumor in the immediately

Ted's family and staff want to thank you for all of your kind words, condolences and prayers. It is a very difficult time, but Ted would want us to keep this train going. I have had the distinct pleasure of working side by side with my Father for the past 14 years, developing this hobby from a handful of speakers sent to a few friends; to a company that has enriched the global music community. Ted's products and designs have gone all over the world to every inhabited continent. Many of his friends who he has helped over these past years, he has never met face to face. He was a teacher to countless musicians and a friend to anyone who needed advice. His memory will live on through the music that these musicians and friends will play for years to come. Ted's legacy will live on through the company that he, TA and the guys have built from humble beginnings in a basement, garage and now our current shop. We feel honored to have this task before us. His shoes will be hard to fill, but we have had a few years to prepare ourselves for this fateful time. In the tradition of how Ted took care of his friends, we are looking forward providing the same quality and friendship to you, our valued customers. You are Ted's family, you knew him as we knew him. Music, speakers and gear were his passion and you shared that with him over the past 14 years, as we have. We want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts; this is not an easy time for us, but we will pick up Ted's guitar and keep playing !

Thank you very much, God bless you

TA and the Guys @ Weber

[macaroonie]

For your interest here is a pic of a 15" JBL D130 in a front vented cabinet ---750mm x 600mm x 300mm - that I built for my bud. Thats his tele. Currently being driven by the Roland cube it sounds heroic , however he is aiming to buy a tube amp soon , leaning towards the Fender line if only to get the great vibe and reverb.
Shoulda seen his face the first time we plugged it in

[1962guitargeek]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

I'd like to nip that rumor in the immediately

Ted's family and staff want to thank you for all of your kind words, condolences and prayers. It is a very difficult time, but Ted would want us to keep this train going. I have had the distinct pleasure of working side by side with my Father for the past 14 years, developing this hobby from a handful of speakers sent to a few friends; to a company that has enriched the global music community. Ted's products and designs have gone all over the world to every inhabited continent. Many of his friends who he has helped over these past years, he has never met face to face. He was a teacher to countless musicians and a friend to anyone who needed advice. His memory will live on through the music that these musicians and friends will play for years to come. Ted's legacy will live on through the company that he, TA and the guys have built from humble beginnings in a basement, garage and now our current shop. We feel honored to have this task before us. His shoes will be hard to fill, but we have had a few years to prepare ourselves for this fateful time. In the tradition of how Ted took care of his friends, we are looking forward providing the same quality and friendship to you, our valued customers. You are Ted's family, you knew him as we knew him. Music, speakers and gear were his passion and you shared that with him over the past 14 years, as we have. We want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts; this is not an easy time for us, but we will pick up Ted's guitar and keep playing !

Thank you very much, God bless you

TA and the Guys @ Weber

That's great news guys. All the best to you....

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

I'd like to nip that rumor in the immediately

Ted's family and staff want to thank you for all of your kind words, condolences and prayers. It is a very difficult time, but Ted would want us to keep this train going. I have had the distinct pleasure of working side by side with my Father for the past 14 years, developing this hobby from a handful of speakers sent to a few friends; to a company that has enriched the global music community. Ted's products and designs have gone all over the world to every inhabited continent. Many of his friends who he has helped over these past years, he has never met face to face. He was a teacher to countless musicians and a friend to anyone who needed advice. His memory will live on through the music that these musicians and friends will play for years to come. Ted's legacy will live on through the company that he, TA and the guys have built from humble beginnings in a basement, garage and now our current shop. We feel honored to have this task before us. His shoes will be hard to fill, but we have had a few years to prepare ourselves for this fateful time. In the tradition of how Ted took care of his friends, we are looking forward providing the same quality and friendship to you, our valued customers. You are Ted's family, you knew him as we knew him. Music, speakers and gear were his passion and you shared that with him over the past 14 years, as we have. We want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts; this is not an easy time for us, but we will pick up Ted's guitar and keep playing !

Thank you very much, God bless you

TA and the Guys @ Weber

You should post that on its own in a thread, lots of people would be pleased to hear the good work you're doing to keep Teds legacy alive.

[jefcon1]

Originally Posted by Larry F

... I like a little OD from the amp, but I also like to hear the details. Does anyone know if the sound of a over-driven guitar has more details in the JBLs?...

fwiw -Last night I tested a TS9, a Mesa Boogie V-Twin, and an Ibanez Metal Charger (not all at the same time!) for the first time since I put the JBLs back in my TRII. I used my strat loaded with EMGs because I was also evaluating how much noise the pedals produced through the amp. I didn't have time to switch to different guitars, but I intend on doing some of these this again with my tele and sg.

TS9- Not surprisingly, it sounded harsh and raw. I had to turn off the Bright switch and roll off the amp's treble to make it tolerable. But, changing the amp settings messed up my clean tone. I tried just rolling back the tone on the TS9 and/or the guitar but I could not get a sound that I liked. I could not find any level of overdrive that sounded good with the speakers. This pedal sounded great with the Celestions, not so much with the JBLs.

Mesa Boogie V-Twin - I only use the solo channel on this pedal, so this test was with over-the-top distortion.This had better results than the TS9 because there is more eq on the V-Twin to tame the output. It still had some harsh higher frequencies that I was unable to roll off. This pedal is still usable as a beefy lead channel for the amp with the JBLs, but it does not sound nearly as good as it did through the Celestions.

Ibanez Metal Charger - Uh, no. I used this pedal with a TS9 (sometimes at the same time) for several years in the 80's and 90's through the same amp and same speakers. What was I thinking? In my defense, when I was using it, I had a BiAmp rack-mount Graphic EQ in the effects loop that I did all my eqing with and I was using a ton of effects back then. This pedal, like the other two, sounded better through the Celestions than through the JBLs.

My conclusion is the JBL E-120 is not a good choice overdrive and distortion. This is not shocking to me, or probably most people reading this, but it is important if someone is on the fence about them and has a Tube Screamer that they like to use regularly. This makes the JBLs one trick ponies for most people, myself included.

For me, for now, I'm perfectly happy with having my Twin for dedicated pristine clean sounds and using my Marshall for higher gain. I am mostly a bedroom and garage player so it doesn't really hold me back. If I were in a band and needed versatility from a single amplifier, I would have to look at other speaker options for the Twin. I'd love to have the JBL's in their own cabinet and something lighter and more versatile in the combo, but the money's not here right now so I'll enjoy what I have and be grateful for it.

~jefcon1

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by jefcon1

....I'll enjoy what I have and be grateful for it.

~jefcon1

You cant say that on TDPRI!!

PS Good info on the JBLS