Twin is just too much. Help

[randysmojo]

Here is a long explanation to get to a point. Do you think my amp is worth it, or do I need to set my sites lower?

I've been running a 1971 Twin Reverb for a while now, and while I get some pretty good tones out of it, it is so heavy and loud I think I need a change. My main worry is I'm basically broke right now, and lately it seems the price of Silver Face Twins has not been to impressive.

This particular amp had the power transformer replaced before I got it with a Magic Parts TF-130. http://www.magicparts.com/new/transformers.htm. It had the original speakers, but they were worn out Oxfords that no one around hear would or really wanted to recone, so I opted to replace them with a pair of Eminence Tonkers. These speakers sound great in this amp by the way! It was previously blackfaced, and I also have a very nice road case for it. It was custom built by a guy in San Antonio for $350.

I'm thinking maybe I can find someone to trade me straight over for something I would like better, but I'm afraid people won't see this amp as being valuable enough to trade for something I would like. I would prefer something that also has a road case because I do a lot of regional road work and would like it protected. I could make due with a silver face Deluxe Reverb, but would really like something a little more boutique. If I could find a Dr. Z Maz 38, Prescription ES or Stangray even without a road case, I would be ecstatic.

If most of you seem to think it would be a worthy trade, I will place an ad in the classifieds here as well as my local Craigslist.

[Jakedog]

Your TR is an extremely cool amp, but not worth what you're looking to get for it IMO. If I were in your shoes, I'd keep using it, and start saving. Most of the folks who are into the boutique stuff, aren't going to be into a SFTR nearly as much. Finding a trade would be extremely difficult I would think, and if you did find somebody who was into your amp, they would most likely want a tidy amount of cash dropped in addition to your amp, judging by the amps you seem to be after.

Your TR, with the changed tranny and speakers, if it's in great shape otherwise, I could see going for $800 at the absolute high side with the way the market is right now. None of those Z's are gonna go that cheap, even used. The road case is an excellent feature, but really doesn't present a lot of added value. Personally, I think that's silly. I think a good road case is a great asset to an amp, but for some reason, they usually don't get you any extra dough.

If it were me, I'd save for awhile. See if you can set aside $400-$500 over the next few months. If you can do that, yo ucan probably swing a decent deal on something like you're looking for. Especially if you can find a shop to work with, as opposed to trying to find an individual who wants to lug a Twin in a road case, and give up his Z. The Twin is a great amp, and should be worth more, especially considering the price of reissues now. But they just aren't in vogue right now. Everybody wants smaller amps, especially of the boutique variety.

[E5RSY]

There is a barely (I do mean barely) used DRRI at Musicmakers right now for under $800 that's had a nice Eminence speaker put in. I could see you getting an even trade on that. Also, I think there is another used amp (Super Reverb?) with a road case in there, as well.

Supers are about the same weight as your Twin, but you don't have to lift them as far off the ground. They take casters well, too.

Good luck.

Scott

[randysmojo]

I'll check with Musicmakers and see what they have in stock. I know a Super is not much different in weight to a Twin, but it is definitely lower wattage and would be much closer to the area I would like to be in for that area. I'm guessing the used DRRI doesn't have a road case with it.

[E5RSY]

While similar in weight, being significantly taller than the Twin, the Super is also much easier to push on casters.

Maybe you could take your existing case back to the guy in San Antone and have him re-do the innards to fit a Deluxe Reverb. Heck, you could probably get some foam and do a pretty good job yourself. If JakeDog is right, you might as well keep the case, anyway.

[BigDaddyLH]

Double Deluxe, anyone?

[popthree]

why not just stick an attenuator on that twin ? twin's are awesome. i wish i had one.

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by popthree

why not just stick an attenuator on that twin ? twin's are awesome. i wish i had one.

Then you're hauling a cannon to crack walnuts.

[stantheman]

Randy...find or borrow a Voodoo Sparkle Drive for the weekend.
I wouldn't be lying by understating that you'll be "surprised".
Has anyone here ever known someone who didn't terribly regret selling their Twin Reverb? I actually know someone that sold their Twin TWICE - to me.
Of course I gave it back.

After a Fender Champ I believe the Twin Reverb to be most important "reference tone".

Wanna have some sick Fun, jumper a Champ into a Twin Reverb but remember to keep the Twin's volume all the way DOWN when beginning or You'll be shopping for a pair of 12's.

[randysmojo]

An attenuator would cost money that I again don't have. What would a Sparkle Drive do for me? I don't want tube distortion. I already have a AC Booster, OCD and MXR Distortion Plus. Even with a clean tone, the Twin sounds better if you can turn it up a bit. Down as low as I have to keep it a lot, it gets kinda sterile. The weight is still a factor. The only reason I would consider a Super even though the weight is close, my favorite amp I've owned to date was a Super Reverb. I would still be hating the weight. Really, either a head cabinet combo or a smaller combo amp would still be best. Probably single 12 or 2-10 combo.

[ES347]

Man, I'd keep my eyes open for one of the less desired silver face circuits--I picked up a bandmaster reverb for under $400, had my tech make a couple minor mods (took the first channel a bit closer to bassman land, reverb channel ab763) and give it an overall once over for about $150. You can probably pick up a cab (or have it built into a 2x10, which is what I did) for pretty close to what you sold the twin for. This particular amp fit into a great volume sweet spot for me, which is medium sized clubs a/b'd with a tweed deluxe.

[popthree]

i saw something here a few weeks ago about pulling half the power tubes out of a twin to lower the volume a bit.....

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by popthree

i saw something here a few weeks ago about pulling half the power tubes out of a twin to lower the volume a bit.....

Wouldn't help the weight factor, but he's right. You can pull a pair of 6L6's (inside or outside pair) and halve the power on that beast. Some folks like this option, some feel it messes with the tone. Been too long since I owned a Twin, so I can't comment, but it's worth a try until you figure out your next move. With the power halved like this, you can also un-hook one of the speakers. If you opted to use it like full time until you get things figured out, you could also just remove one of the speakers, which would help a little with the weight problem...

[randysmojo]

I've ran it with two tubes out and one speaker unhooked, and it sounds pretty good, but it does seem to sound different also. I wonder if you removed the speaker you weren't using, would it change the tone via changing the properties of the cabinet? A big hole where a speaker (effectively blocking the hole) once was?

[strat a various]

First, go around to music stores and pawn shops and find a few amps you like. Next, sell the Twin to a Country, Jazz, or R&B guy who wants loud clean tones. If I didn't have my old SF Twin, I'd jump at yours for $350. I don't care about matching parts and original speakers, I just need a loud clean amp.
Sell it on C-list, look into some of the steel guitar forums, ask about putting it on consignment at a music store, or see if they'll trade it for a smaller amp you want. Someone out there wants it, they just don't know you exist.

You say you do a lot of regional road work ... if you're traveling around to different cities, are you going to the local stores looking for an amp you like? Maybe one of those shops wants to trade for a Fender. Especially where there are lots of Country players.

[randysmojo]

First, who said I'd ever sell it for $350? Second off, I am a full time musician. Due to current health problems, we are low on money, but I play too often to worry about even a part time job. Saying no offense intended doesn't mean one won't be taken.

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

First, who said I'd ever sell it for $350? Second off, I am a full time musician. Due to current health problems, we are low on money, but I play too often to worry about even a part time job. Saying no offense intended doesn't mean one won't be taken.

You'll notice I edited my post before your reply uploaded. I re-read your post and noticed the regional roadwork part. So, apologies for not reading carefully, but, what do you want to sell it for? Altered SF Fender Twins sell for 400 to 500, so 350 is a good "hurry to sell" price. I'd ask $500, but I'm never in a hurry to sell.
I see some pretty cool amps in pawnshops for $350-400.
And sorry to hear about you health problems.

[guitarken]

I drove a '74 Twin for over 25 years - while nothing I know of completely fills the bill, I have recently started using a Deville 2x12. For some reason, it's lighter, and with a sans-amp (I have a TRI-OD from Tech 21-NYC), if I keep an eye on the settiings, I can tweak it to where I get what I need, tweak depending on the song. I did use a mint '74 TR for comparison, and it's not the same, but can be close.

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by guitarken

I drove a '74 Twin for over 25 years - while nothing I know of completely fills the bill, I have recently started using a Deville 2x12. For some reason, it's lighter, and with a sans-amp (I have a TRI-OD from Tech 21-NYC), if I keep an eye on the settiings, I can tweak it to where I get what I need, tweak depending on the song. I did use a mint '74 TR for comparison, and it's not the same, but can be close.

That amp may work good for you. A Blues Deluxe is light weight and, depending on your style, can function in a lot of musical settings. They're pretty loud for 1x12", but if you can control the quirky settings, you can coax some good tones out of them.Not my bag, but I like SF Twins, so maybe closer to what you like. I see them around here used for $300.

Hey, you're in Austin. Don't the pawnshops there have a lot of cool amps that newcomers with stars in their eyes have to pawn when they find out they won't become big stars? Vegas and L.A. are full of distressed sellers who need cash to get out of town. It seems Texas equals lots of Country players who might want a Twin, and Austin equals lots of wanna-bes who may want to sell you their amp to pay the rent.
Post your asking price, I'll call a few guys in Dallas and see if they want a Twin. Lots of the Dallas/ New Orleans guys I know play Twins ... can't hurt to ask.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by strat a various

You'll notice I edited my post before your reply uploaded. I re-read your post and noticed the regional roadwork part. So, apologies for not reading carefully, but, what do you want to sell it for? Altered SF Fender Twins sell for 400 to 500, so 350 is a good "hurry to sell" price. I'd ask $500, but I'm never in a hurry to sell.
I see some pretty cool amps in pawnshops for $350-400.
And sorry to hear about you health problems.

Strat A Various- I need to find out exactly where you live, go raid all of those pawn shops, and bring all of the amps I find back up north here. I'm thinking I could double my money. I used to use see SF amps in pawn shops and second hand music stores for that kind of money all the time, but not in the last 15 years... Around here, if a SF Twin works at all, no matter how it's been altered or butched up, you would be looking at $450 minimum, just for one that turns on. Most of them go for $600-$800, with some prime examples bringing more. A '77 MV model on consignment at a local shop here just sold for a grand. You're sitting on a gold mine sir!

[randysmojo]

In my area altered '71 twins are still selling for anywhere from $600 to $900 if the condition is good, especially with a high quality road case. I'm also not trying to sell it in a hurry. I need it to play on for gigs, so it's either a straight over trade, or I will have to wait until we get past the health problems both my wife and I are having and start saving up. I'm working on learning songs for another group that if I get the job, will pay a little better than where I'm at right now. That will help on both ends. I'm not in such a hurry to find something lower powered and lighter, that I would make a quick sale or trade for something that I don't think is on par. I am trying to stay away from PCB amps. I'm thinking if I can save up $600 or so to go with the amp, I might find someone with a Dr. Z Maz 38 or Stangray that might want to trade, or I might try to find someone with a head version and save money up to buy a cabinet.

[randysmojo]

I'd probably have to get at least $900 with the road case. The case wouldn't do me any good without the amp, so I'd have to sell them together. If I could get that much, I might be able to find some way to get an amp like one of the ones I'm looking for at least in a head. Or maybe I could scrounge and beg friends for the rest!!!

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Strat A Various- I need to find out exactly where you live, go raid all of those pawn shops, and bring all of the amps I find back up north here. I'm thinking I could double my money. I used to use see SF amps in pawn shops and second hand music stores for that kind of money all the time, but not in the last 15 years... Around here, if a SF Twin works at all, no matter how it's been altered or butched up, you would be looking at $450 minimum, just for one that turns on. Most of them go for $600-$800, with some prime examples bringing more. A '77 MV model on consignment at a local shop here just sold for a grand. You're sitting on a gold mine sir!

In music stores, good condition could bring $1000, but on Craigslist/Ebay/Pawnshops in this economy, people deal. My buddy just got one for $250 that just needed power tubes and a fuse. Vegas and San Diego have a lot of Pawnshops, Vancouver WA has some good deals. Wherever I travel, I check out the small music stores and pawn shops. The pawnshops ask Ebay prices, but lots of them jump at cash ... more people are pawning than buying it seems.
I didn't miss the semi-sarcasm of your post, but I have a couple of roomfulls of cool amps 90% of which came out of pawnshops and private sellers, so I think a thorough search is worth while if you really want to get a good deal on the right used amp.
I think there's a chance that someone reading these boards has a really hip Dr. Z that they want to trade straight across for a modified SF Twin, but it's an exceedingly thin chance, so I'd be more inclined to 1. post the asking price, 2. proactively advertise to buyers that like SF Twins (most of the bigshots around here want small distorted amps it seems), and take advantage of traveling to play in different areas. Even some small towns have some good deals. I've found a few undervalued Gibsons out in Missouri farm country, just because the areas are depressed and guys are selling what they have to save the farm.

I really hope someone with a Stangray or SF Deluxe Reverb wants to trade straight across for your Twin, randysmojo, but if that doesn't happen right away, just brainstorming, since I constantly shop little stores all over as I travel and I'm interested in amp horsetrading.

[Mutato]

Have you thought about a SF Pro Reverb? They seem to be the little cousin of the Twin. And they are fetching less $$ than a BF one. Not a big change in weight, but a little lighter.

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

I'd probably have to get at least $900 with the road case. The case wouldn't do me any good without the amp, so I'd have to sell them together. If I could get that much, I might be able to find some way to get an amp like one of the ones I'm looking for at least in a head. Or maybe I could scrounge and beg friends for the rest!!!

Now we're getting somewhere. Respectfully, you hardly ever get what you put into a non-collectible amp. Add up the amp, speaker, mods, roadcase ... that's almost never the price you'll get back. Since you're in no hurry, (this is just an opinion, OK?), I'd sell the road case separately. In my experience, road cases are like guitar cases in deals like this ... they don't add much value in the end. If the amp was unaltered, a store could ask $900 and take a year to sell it, but modded, with new speakers, the hardcore Fender guys will pass and we have to look for steel players (there must be some of those in Austin) and old school guys like me who just want to use it full time for work.
I know a few guys who couldn't get their Twin out of Katrina in time, down in New Orleans. They've replaced them since, but it might be worth a C-list add down there, especially if you work Dallas/Ft.Worth a lot. You may find a buyer willing to meet halfway. I'd ask $600 max, not 900, but that again is just an opinion.
One last tidbit, until you find a good deal, try putting a DOD 280 Compressor in front of it. Won't make it any lighter, but it overdrives the front end good and gives a Twin some depth and balls at low-medium volume ... different that other Comps I've used.
Good luck with this. I'll ask around, call a few guys in Texas and see if any of their buddies are in the market.

[T_red7882]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

Here is a long explanation to get to a point. Do you think my amp is worth it, or do I need to set my sites lower?

I've been running a 1971 Twin Reverb for a while now, and while I get some pretty good tones out of it, it is so heavy and loud I think I need a change. My main worry is I'm basically broke right now, and lately it seems the price of Silver Face Twins has not been to impressive.

This particular amp had the power transformer replaced before I got it with a Magic Parts TF-130. http://www.magicparts.com/new/transformers.htm. It had the original speakers, but they were worn out Oxfords that no one around hear would or really wanted to recone, so I opted to replace them with a pair of Eminence Tonkers. These speakers sound great in this amp by the way! It was previously blackfaced, and I also have a very nice road case for it. It was custom built by a guy in San Antonio for $350.

I'm thinking maybe I can find someone to trade me straight over for something I would like better, but I'm afraid people won't see this amp as being valuable enough to trade for something I would like. I would prefer something that also has a road case because I do a lot of regional road work and would like it protected. I could make due with a silver face Deluxe Reverb, but would really like something a little more boutique. If I could find a Dr. Z Maz 38, Prescription ES or Stangray even without a road case, I would be ecstatic.

If most of you seem to think it would be a worthy trade, I will place an ad in the classifieds here as well as my local Craigslist.

(half kidding) uh oh... "getting old alert" bells should now be sounding. join a gym, get good ear plugs, and don't listen to the folks here.

[randysmojo]

Is a DOD 280 Comp different than a Ross Clone? I'm using a modded Dyna Comp that sounds pretty good and helps tighten it up at the lower volumes, but I've seen some DOD 280's lately for pretty reasonable.

I have thought about a Pro Reverb. It should be pretty close if not the same size cabinet so I could keep the road case and use the Pro instead. If someone had a non-master volume Pro they wanted to trade straight up for my Twin, I would probably do it. Heck, if they liked their speakers better, we could swap speakers even. I really like the Tonkers I put in this one. That would be assuming the speakers in the Pro are rated to handle the Twin's power, but they probably used the same speakers in a lot of them. Heck, they might have some original type matching speakers in a Pro that could bring this Twin that much closer to original. Then with an original power tranny, they'd have it.

[randysmojo]

Originally Posted by T_red7882

(half kidding) uh oh... "getting old alert" bells should now be sounding. join a gym, get good ear plugs, and don't listen to the folks here.

I've got some earplugs, but I can't afford enough for the rest of the band, and the crowd! In doing research, it looks like even some of the lower wattage boutique amps in 2-12 configuration don't weigh much less than a Twin. I might have to go with a 1-12 or separate head and cab if I want it any easier on the back!

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

Is a DOD 280 Comp different than a Ross Clone? I'm using a modded Dyna Comp that sounds pretty good and helps tighten it up at the lower volumes, but I've seen some DOD 280's lately for pretty reasonable.

I'm not a pedal guy, so I can't answer that. I have tried a dozen or so comps with my SF Twin, and this DOD is the one that, if you adjust it right, doesn't sound much like a comp and doesn't suck the picking dynamics out of the sound. It does make it easier to play at medium volume. With an AC adapter, the level control gives it a big clean boost and the compression adds just a little dirt and depth. I get to run my Twin full-out occasionally at big venues and the sound with the comp at lower volumes is similar. You need to play with the controls, they are very sensitive. It's not a good chicken-pickin comp.
Best of luck.

[E5RSY]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

I am trying to stay away from PCB amps.

I am on board with that thinking, myself. However, that used DRRI at Musicmakers has some actual mojo working due to that Eminence replacement speaker. At least, go give it a listen. It's one of the best sounding reissue amps I've played through.

Hey, lemme know who you're playing with, I'd love to come check y'all out. PM me if you want.

Good luck.

[Mark N]

Hey randy...just to let you know, I went from a Twin reverb reissue to a DR Z Maz Jr...the 18 watter and I tell ya man I could not be happier! With the Maz SR, Stangray etc, you might find it too much as well cause it will serioulsy kick some major ass and they are LOUD LOUD LOUD! ...My Maz Jr smokes the TRRI I had both in tone and versatility and if I need to I can stick a mic in front of it for larger gigs. It's rugged too, a very very well built cab but no where near as heavy as the Twin was. It is about 55lbs in the combo version which I have. I don;t miss the Twin at all, no feence to those that have em, they are great amps but the Z takes me into a whole other world of tone! It is one of those amps that once you plug into it you won't want to try anything else...at least that is what it did for me...Good Luck!

[randysmojo]

I was wondering if the Maz jr. might not be a good route. I mike my amp setup at almost every gig anyways. What are the cleanest lower watt Dr. Z's? 20 watt and lower I would say.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

I was wondering if the Maz jr. might not be a good route. I mike my amp setup at almost every gig anyways. What are the cleanest lower watt Dr. Z's? 20 watt and lower I would say.

The Z-28 at 22 watts (same as a DRRI) is a sweetheart. I like the Maz 18 in a 1X12 combo, or a head with a 1X12 or 2X12 cab. Very nice. And if you are mic'ing, and using single coils, you could very well have enough headroom. I have never cared for the Maz 18 2X10 combo. I know several people who own them, and they all sound harsh and buzzy to me. For some reason, I just don't think that amp likes 10" speakers. Every one I hear in that configuration sounds like a severely broken Vibrolux to me.

[randysmojo]

Originally Posted by E5RSY

I am on board with that thinking, myself. However, that used DRRI at Musicmakers has some actual mojo working due to that Eminence replacement speaker. At least, go give it a listen. It's one of the best sounding reissue amps I've played through.

Hey, lemme know who you're playing with, I'd love to come check y'all out. PM me if you want.

Good luck.

Do you remember what eminence speaker they put in it? I'm going to try to get by there tomorrow and take a look at it. There is a guy around Austin named Joe Forlini that i saw last week playing through either an original BF Deluxe or a DRRI, but his tone was great!!!

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

Do you remember what eminence speaker they put in it? I'm going to try to get by there tomorrow and take a look at it. There is a guy around Austin named Joe Forlini that i saw last week playing through either an original BF Deluxe or a DRRI, but his tone was great!!!

I did a Blues gig last year with a DRRI. Sounded like a blackface to me, but it was crying out for a more efficient speaker. If you mic your amp at most venues, a used one is a good choice. I don't let the PCB bother me, get some handwires when you start getting endorsements, in the meantime, good affordable tone works.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by strat a various

I did a Blues gig last year with a DRRI. Sounded like a blackface to me, but it was crying out for a more efficient speaker. If you mic your amp at most venues, a used one is a good choice. I don't let the PCB bother me, get some handwires when you start getting endorsements, in the meantime, good affordable tone works.

+1 PCB is not nearly as evil as the cork sniffers would have you believe. yes, there are bad PCB amps. Lots of them. There are also bad PTP amps, as they are only as good as the person who soldered them. It's the design, layout, and quality of components used in both styles of amps that makes them what they are. One type of construction will not sound better than the other, if identical circuits and components are used. And if a PCB amp is built correctly, it can be every bit as reliable as a comparable PTP amp.

Just ask the folks at Mesa, Rivera, or Fuchs, just to name a few high end companies that use PCB's.

[randysmojo]

I think if I wound up with a DRRI, I would eventually try to replace the speaker with an alnico. Has anyone done that and had a good/bad outcome?

[nic'o'caster]

The mods made to your amp won't help to make more money on it, but they do improve the tone for sure. Even if a Twin is usually too much amp, there are some occasions a Twin is just the right amp, especially for outdoor gigs or for those players who play electric and acoustic with one amp. I agree with JD : a Twin is a reference tone. I also got a silverface Twin that was somewhat blackfaced. I bought it cheap because the seller couldn't sell it. I must say it's my best buy amp. I doubt I'll ever sell it. It has that clarity and that complex 3D clean tone that is hard to find in modern amp. I've never heard that in a TRRI for instance... And when I need a lighter package I grab my DRRI ;)

[Mark N]

Originally Posted by randysmojo

I was wondering if the Maz jr. might not be a good route. I mike my amp setup at almost every gig anyways. What are the cleanest lower watt Dr. Z's? 20 watt and lower I would say.

My Maz is 18 watts....trust me it'll be all you would need if you mic everytime...even not mic'd this amp gets loud. It is not a thin sounding 18 watss either, it is full, rich and full of variety...you cannot compare it to a BJ or even a HRD/Deville Twin or anything...I am sounding too cocky and arrogant now so I will shut up while I am ahead...go try one and you'll see

[randysmojo]

Update. I put my Twin on Craigs list and started the price at $1000 obo thinking I'd give myself a little room to go down on price. There is a guy that lives 20 minutes from me that has a 2nd Gen. Dr. Z Mazerati that he is selling for $1000. So far the only offer I have gotten though, has been a guy wanting an amp for using with his Steel Guitar, and he offered to trade me straight up an Allen Accomplice with a single 15" speaker. Does anyone have experience with these amps?