Whats a good jazz amp?

[GitHead]

I have read a lot and played a lot of amps designed for rock, blues, and country guitar. They are almost all tube amps and they tend to sport a hot crunchy or high gain distortion. But what about for Jazz. Thats a totally different animal and I've heard that Jazzers often use solid state amps because they are so clean.

I love the sound Herb Ellis gets. To me that is the definitive Jazz sound but that was some time ago I'll bet that was a tube amp. I like the George Benson sound as well.

What do you think?

[jazztele]

herb ellis played polytones for years, but those old recordings are certainly a tube amp.

many of the classic recordings rudy van gelder made were thru the house amp, a tweed deluxe.

benson has endorsed polytone, but often gigs with a solid state and a tube amp, like a twin.

other makers of great solid state jazz amps are heinriksen, evans, and acoustic image.

many folks have gotten good jazz tones out of the roland cubes (i have one, but like my polytone better)

anything that'll stat clean as loud as you need it can be considered really...i also like a darker tone with plenty of mids for jazz, so a three band EQ is helpful.

[Mutato]

My coworker plays chord melody jazz with a Hot Rod Deluxe. He never touches the distortion channel! He plays it dark (treble turned down) and wet with reverb. Sounds really good. He solo gigs with it at events like art show openings and the 40 watts is good for projecting the Bass without distorting.

[GitHead]

Rudy Van Gelder "Frequently regarded as one of the most important recording engineers in music history"

Wow, I'm always learning. What a great resourse the TDPRI is.

Thanks Jazz.

[stantheman]

Wes Montgomery gigged with Super Reverbs and an L-5.
Nick Colionne uses an Epi Broadway Elitist Blondie and an Epiphone Amp and absolutely NAILS Wes' Tone.

You can see them both on You Tube and Nick has a 6 part feature on Epiphone that I rate very highly.

I've always wanted a Polytone too but truthfully any Amp and an Alesis Nanoverb is gonna take You there.

[GitHead]

I actually have a nano verb! I currently have a Fender Deville 2x12. I think it is a great amp for being a cheapy. The biggest problem I have with it is it seems to have a strong "flashlight" effect, loud and bright if you are directly in it's line of fire but major treble and volume rolloff when you step to either side. I often find myself standing too close to it on stage and can't hear myself. Then I end up turning it up too loud and killing people across the room.

My follow up question to the amp is what is a good, inexpensive, guitar for playing jazz? I can't afford a $3500 Gibson. I don't especially care for the "woody" tone but I like a nice round tone like Herb.

[Will Chen]

Originally Posted by stantheman

Wes Montgomery gigged with Super Reverbs and an L-5.
Nick Colionne uses an Epi Broadway Elitist Blondie and an Epiphone Amp and absolutely NAILS Wes' Tone.

You can see them both on You Tube and Nick has a 6 part feature on Epiphone that I rate very highly.

I've always wanted a Polytone too but truthfully any Amp and an Alesis Nanoverb is gonna take You there.

You will see a predominance of solid state amps among many of the major jazz players.

Wes Montgomery also gigged in his later career with a Standel Super Custom XV solid state amp.

Pat Metheny used an Acoustic 134 early on and now has a crazy surround system on stage and is running direct to the house board.

Larry Coryell, Jimmy Bruno, Jim Hall, and Joe Diorio have all used a Henriksen.

Pat Martino and Larry Coryell were known Roland JC-120 users.

But really any amp with very good clean headroom and a fairly neutral tone stack tube, solid state, or digital will get you there.

[Will Chen]

Originally Posted by GitHead

I actually have a nano verb! I currently have a Fender Deville 2x12. I think it is a great amp for being a cheapy. The biggest problem I have with it is it seems to have a strong "flashlight" effect, loud and bright if you are directly in it's line of fire but major treble and volume rolloff when you step to either side. I often find myself standing too close to it on stage and can't hear myself. Then I end up turning it up too loud and killing people across the room.

My follow up question to the amp is what is a good, inexpensive, guitar for playing jazz? I can't afford a $3500 Gibson. I don't especially care for the "woody" tone but I like a nice round tone like Herb.

You kinda have to decide if you want a full hollow or semi to get a starting point. Personally, I haven't been able to make the jump to a full hollow. I use a Highland HEG-500 (335 copy) with GFS Mean 90's for jazz. There's a lot of love for Ibanez Artcores and their higher end jazz boxes as well. Metheny and Scofield are both endorsees. Many also dig the Epiphone semi and full hollows.

[wangdangdoodle]

Have you tried changing the speakers/valves on your Deville? That makes a huge difference.

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by wangdangdoodle

Have you tried changing the speakers/valves on your Deville? That makes a huge difference.

I haven't. Any suggestions for speakers?

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Will Chen

You kinda have to decide if you want a full hollow or semi to get a starting point. Personally, I haven't been able to make the jump to a full hollow. I use a Highland HEG-500 (335 copy) with GFS Mean 90's for jazz. There's a lot of love for Ibanez Artcores and their higher end jazz boxes as well. Metheny and Scofield are both endorsees. Many also dig the Epiphone semi and full hollows.

I was going to try the EPi's as they seem to be reasonably priced. I just don't know if they are any good. They look nice for a $700 guitar and I didn't know if there were better options. The Artcores seem to be much more expensive.

[Will Chen]

Originally Posted by GitHead

I was going to try the EPi's as they seem to be reasonably priced. I just don't know if they are any good. They look nice for a $700 guitar and I didn't know if there were better options. The Artcores seem to be much more expensive.

Based on Musician's Friend pricing Epi dots start at $399. The ES-175 is $499 and the Joe Pass is $599. Ibanez has a bunch of hollow and semi hollows below $500. Can you get to a store to play a few? If you've never played a semi or full hollow, they sound very different than solid body guitars...

[jazztele]

Originally Posted by GitHead

.
My follow up question to the amp is what is a good, inexpensive, guitar for playing jazz? I can't afford a $3500 Gibson. I don't especially care for the "woody" tone but I like a nice round tone like Herb.

if you feel the need for an archtop jazz guitar, there's no better bang for the buck than the godin 5th avenue line.

epiphone makes some good looking guitars, but there was a recent thread that showed some very questionable workmanship, IMHO. i had an emperor regent which served me nicely, but the godin is a better guitar in every aspect from unamplified tone to fit and finish.

ibanez makes decent starter archtops too, but with a skinny neck and big frets that are deal breakers to me. jazz guitar requires some interesting chordal work, and those railroad ties make for some intonation issues for me. YMMV.

up a step, there's actually some very nice asian made instruments from eastman, vestax (d'angelico) and peerless. these are gonna run you at least a grand, more for eastman. The eastmans are really nice--they blow the doors of the peerless and asian d'angelicos, IMHO.

i am interested in when you say you don't want a "woody" tone, because when i think of that in a jazz sense, i think of an unamplified archtop--midrangey, with a quick snappy attack and decay...which is exactly how i'd describe herb's tone!


of course, i've done many a jazz gig (and will do many more) with a tele...you don't need a archtop to play jazz, you just need one for the album cover;)

[Joe-Bob]

For jazz, you just need to be able to get a warm, clean sound, and have a little power in reserve so the bass stays tight.

First thing I would do is switch to D'Addario Chromes flatwound strings and go from there. The strings will go the farthest single distance towards the sound.

[Scott S]

It's good that you narrowed down what a "jazz" tone means TO YOU. With nothing else to go on, I might've suggested a Gibson EH-150 or tweed Pro clone -- my favorite jazz tones *don't* involve infinite headroom and tight bass!

- Scott

[BluezyBruce]

Here's what I am doing at the moment.

59 Bassman, Les Paul, Nice round sound a bit midish and my guitar volume rolled down to 4-6 on the neck pickup.

One thing I found is that with the volume up on the guitar it give to much treble.

I have used a solid state amp but hate the things now day so I won't recommend one, Good luck.

Bruce

[BigDaddyLH]

Much of your tone is in your fingers. There is no end of stories of guitarists being handed an axe plugged into the house amp, and after some tweaking, producing "their" sound.

(That being said, I think most jazz guitarists use SS amps for the obvious reasons: cheaper, lighter and more reliable. When it comes to getting a clean sound on a tube amp you have to go bigger and heavier that someone who wants a dirty tube sound.)

Here is my short alphabetic list of SS Jazz amps with prices (if I show the MSRP, realize you usually can find a better street price).

Acoustic Image:

http://www.acousticimg.com/index2.html

Acoustic Image makes combos, but a more common choice is to use a Raezer's Edge cabinet (http://www.raezers-edge.com/) with one of their heads, say, the Clarus 1 (400W $839 MSRP).

Evans Custom Amps:

http://www.evansamps.com/

The RE200 ($1548 MSRP) is a 200 watt 1x10 combo amp. They also package the same amplifier in 1x12 and 1x15 combos.

Fender:

Although it was discontinued a few years ago, I love the 140 watt 1x15 combo Jazz King:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--FEN2289700000

$800 is the current street price

Another popular SS Fender choice is the 250 watt Jazzmaster Ultralight head ($800 street), although some complain the matching cabinet sounds boxy.

http://www.fender.com/products/searc...tno=2277000000

Henriksen JazzAmp:

http://www.jazzamp.com/

The JazzAmp 110 (1x10, 120W, $899 MSRP)

JazzKat:

http://www.jazzkatamps.com/

The Tomkat (1x10, 125W, $999 MSRSP) is a hybrid amp using a 12AX7 preamp tube.

Phil Jones:

http://www.philjonespuresound.com/PJWeb11_AG100.aspx

AG-100 (2x5, 100W, $450 street)

http://www.philjonespuresound.com/PJWeb11_AG300.aspx

AG-300 (6x5, 250W, $1450 MRSP)

Polytone:

http://www.polytoneamps.com/catalog5.html

The Polytone Mini Brutes is the jazz amp standard. Some complain about their reliability but there are plenty of MBs from the '70s still going strong. If you are looking for a used one, keep an eye on eBay. You should be able to get one for less that $300 plus shipping. For such an iconic amp, it's hard to find dealers.

Mini Brute IV (1x15, 110W, $700 street)

--------------------------------------------

Tube amps for Jazz? The most popular current models are the Fender Blackface reissues, the Twin (including the 1x15 Custom), the Super, the Deluxe, etc...

[Single-coil]

I'm currently using a '78 PR w a 12" 12F150 along w an Eastman copy of a 339. The combination is giving me tremendous clarity and articulation, along w a woody, piano-like depth to the sound. It actually can be breathtaking at the times (the tone, not my playing).

[GitHead]

Wow, lots of great suggestions. Thank you.

I have heard your tunes Jeff (Jazz) and I think they sound increadible, Awesome, out of this world, you just can't find anything cooler. Did you pay big bucks to record those tracks or did you do them at home?

When I say woody I mean the pickups sound more microphonic to me and tend to pick up the sound off the box along with lots of finger noise and bumping the guitar noise.

I realize you can use any guitar to play jazz but theres something about the vibe that goes with a guitar like chicken pickin and Teles. My biggest concern with spending too much is not my fear of spending too much but my wife! I have to play jazz a lot more to justify the major expense. It is still a new frontier for me.

And I will go to the music store and try some but I want to tap the vast wealth of knowlege found right here on TDPRI so I can focus my attention looking for specific things to try. Like that Phil Jones. Man I carry so much cr@p to a gig right now. I would love to haul one of those things around instead of this...

(Of course I've always had this bad habbit of overdoing it!)

[Mutato]

"Polytone: http://www.polytoneamps.com/catalog5.html

The Polytone Mini Brutes is the jazz amp standard. Some complain about their reliability but there are plenty of MBs from the '70s still going strong. If you are looking for a used one, keep an eye on eBay. You should be able to get one for less that $300 plus shipping. For such an iconic amp, it's hard to find dealers."

I own my first guitar amp. Bought off a Frat Brother for $150 back in 1986. A Polytone MiniBrute II in all it's velvet covered glory. This one was from the 70's. It has been a great backup amp and second amp for many years. Got broken during a small flood and was fixed. Great clean tones, with some power in a tiny package (12" speaker in a cube like package) Also the biggest thing was that the EQ controls have a lot of sweep so you can really dial up the tones you want. Also separate tone switch for bright or dark. They really designed it to be flexible.

http://www.polytoneamps.com/catalog3.html

[jazztele]

Originally Posted by GitHead

Wow, lots of great suggestions. Thank you.

I have heard your tunes Jeff (Jazz) and I think they sound increadible, Awesome, out of this world, you just can't find anything cooler. Did you pay big bucks to record those tracks or did you do them at home?
]

well, first off, gee whiz, thanks...

they were recorded at home, polytone and roland cube the primary amplifiers, my old tele the primary guitar. Shure 57 into a fostex MR-8. it's pretty wild what you can pull off at home, which is nice, becasue i need about a million takes. something about when that little red light is blinking, i forget everything i've practiced!

as for the undeniable vibe of a jazzbox, i agree. you WILL approach playing one differently, it's just part of the package deal. which is cool--I love how sitting down and playing the archtop causes me to play a different way than when i sit down with a tele...now i can play whatever guitar depending on my mood that day!

i left off phil jones unintentionally, but i probably didn't think of it because i'm not a fan, at all. I'm also probably one of about three people in the world who isn't--everybody loves these amps--i thought, lousy bass, cardboard tone, and not nearly loud enough to compete with a drummer other than a cat in full on terry clarke mode.

but that was with my tele...i think i seriously need to check one out again to reformulate an opinion, because those amps have a lot of fans.

i also think it's not a bad idea to have gear devoted to a style. then you can go all out--put .14 gauge flats on there if you want, because that's what that guitar is for...after all, you wouldn't use scissors to cut a 2X4, or use a drill press to punch a hole in a piece of paper. different tools for different jobs, right?

hope that helps you rationalize. though i really think, once you make a few breakthroughs in your jazz playing, that you'll be playing it often enough to justify the gear. once you get bitten, there's that beautiful feeling of discovery, and that comforting feeling (at least to me) of knowing you'll NEVER know it all, so you might as well enjoy and play the heck out of what you do know.

[Sterling Indigo]

Nils uses mostly Bogner and a Fender Tweed Twin: http://www.nilsmusic.com/gear.html

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by Sterling Indigo

Nils uses mostly Bogner and a Fender Tweed Twin: http://www.nilsmusic.com/gear.html

Just out of curiosity, I failed to discover Nils' last name on his web site. Is he like Cher and Charo?

[Sterling Indigo]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

Just out of curiosity, I failed to discover Nils' last name on his web site. Is he like Cher and Charo?

I always laugh at your posts. No, I think it's just NOT Lofgren, that's all. Not that I don't like Nils Lofgren or anything.

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by Sterling Indigo

I always laugh at your posts. No, I think it's just NOT Lofgren, that's all. Not that I don't like Nils Lofgren or anything.

Speaking of things to laugh at, my wife and I are going to a Hallowe'en party as Sonny and Cher. I make the ugliest Cher ever, but since I'm the taller one... (And where am I going to find ladies' shoes in a size 14?)

[ryokan]

A 60's blue check Ampeg is a wonderful, clean jazz amp. Love mine...

[superhand]

For a clean tone with nice reverb, I say Roland JC 120. Those are the best solid state amps out there IMO. I had a JC 50 and sold it, that was a good amp to, sometimes I wish I would have kept it, it sounded like half of a JC 120. Best clean tone I ever heard. Nice reverb and chorus to. Distortion sucks though.

[stantheman]

Originally Posted by GitHead

I was going to try the EPi's as they seem to be reasonably priced. I just don't know if they are any good. They look nice for a $700 guitar and I didn't know if there were better options. The Artcores seem to be much more expensive.

Git, any moment now a Sunburst Epiphone Zephyr Regent (this is Epi's take on the Herb Ellis ES-165) is going to appear on Ebay. The price is gonna be at $350; this will be it's 3rd go-round; nobody - aka me - has bought it because I'm/We're all tapped.
I have wanted one of these for a very very long time in sunburst but if I can't grab it then one of You should.
There's also a Black Zephyr Regent for $400 or Best Offer and I think that one's got a hardshell case as part of the deal.

Lastly do not confuse the Zephyr Regent with the "Regent".
The Zephyr Regent is a single pickup ES-165/175 with a Florentine (sharp) cutaway and the "Regent" is an L5/Johnny Smith 17" with a floating pickup.

Finally, and this really freaks me out - I prefer the Tone of the Zephyr Regent
over the Herb Ellis everytime I've compared the two.
This bites the wang as Herb Ellis is one of my Jazz idols and I really wanted his model but Tone-wise the Zephyr Regent smokes it totally with zero "gray area". It simply sounds superior.

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by Mutato

"Polytone: http://www.polytoneamps.com/catalog5.html

The Polytone Mini Brutes is the jazz amp standard. Some complain about their reliability but there are plenty of MBs from the '70s still going strong. If you are looking for a used one, keep an eye on eBay. You should be able to get one for less that $300 plus shipping. For such an iconic amp, it's hard to find dealers."

I own my first guitar amp. Bought off a Frat Brother for $150 back in 1986. A Polytone MiniBrute II in all it's velvet covered glory. This one was from the 70's. It has been a great backup amp and second amp for many years. Got broken during a small flood and was fixed. Great clean tones, with some power in a tiny package (12" speaker in a cube like package) Also the biggest thing was that the EQ controls have a lot of sweep so you can really dial up the tones you want. Also separate tone switch for bright or dark. They really designed it to be flexible.

http://www.polytoneamps.com/catalog3.html

Polytones are very good, I use one for small places, but trying to get them fixed is tough. Polytone would never return my emails or phone calls. For bigger places I use a SF Twin, but a TRRI will do just as well. Many of my full time Jazz Player friends use TRRIs.
Jazzkat amps sound great, but I don't own one, so no idea on the reliability.

[BigDaddyLH]

I've heard Polytone described as being in business, but just barely. Their website looks like they tossed an intern "Websites for Dummies" and gave them half a day to do it.

[GitHead]

Thanks Stan, I see a few for around $500 but I'll keep my eyes open. I do see the one at $400.

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by ryokan

A 60's blue check Ampeg is a wonderful, clean jazz amp. Love mine...

And they just plain look cool too!

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Will Chen

You will see a predominance of solid state amps among many of the major jazz players.

Wes Montgomery also gigged in his later career with a Standel Super Custom XV solid state amp.

Pat Metheny used an Acoustic 134 early on and now has a crazy surround system on stage and is running direct to the house board.

Larry Coryell, Jimmy Bruno, Jim Hall, and Joe Diorio have all used a Henriksen.

Pat Martino and Larry Coryell were known Roland JC-120 users.

But really any amp with very good clean headroom and a fairly neutral tone stack tube, solid state, or digital will get you there.

Not sure where I can demo a Henriksen but I do know where I can check out the JC-120.

[GitHead]

The razors edge cabinets look awesome. I don't know how they sound but they sure look cool. And the Phil Jones amp look outrageous. I can't wait to try one of those!

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by GitHead

The razors edge cabinets look awesome. I don't know how they sound but they sure look cool. And the Phil Jones amp look outrageous. I can't wait to try one of those!

I have the AG-100 on order. I went for the cool red version:



I was hoping it would arrive today, but no dice. It's a small amp, but that's all I need. It's really an acoustic guitar amp, but that works for archtops. I've also played on the AG-300 and it's a great amp.

I have a weakness of amps with 15" speakers. They sound great for jazz and they make SS amps sound a bit warmer and "tubier". I just can't justify an amp that big for myself.

[gaddis]

Originally Posted by GitHead

...My follow up question to the amp is what is a good, inexpensive, guitar for playing jazz? ...

Well you're gonna get lots of opinions and I've only played a few models myself, but for my money you can't beat a D'Angelico EXL-1. I think they are around $1600 new but you should be able to find a used one for $1000 or so. I was very lucky and snatched this beauty up for $600. I traded in my Epi Joe Pass Emperor, which I never really bonded with.




Here's an example of what it might sound like, in hands more capable than mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqwTdKqrD3w

On the subject of amps, I'd say my Fender Amp Can gets a better jazz sound than pretty much any of the "real amps" that I have.

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by GitHead

Not sure where I can demo a Henriksen but I do know where I can check out the JC-120.

Road trip?
http://elderly.com/vintage/names/rol...-130U-8810.htm

I'm embarrassed I left the JC-120 off my list. It's as much a classic jazz amp as the Polytone. It's a 2x12", and if you don't need the volume, there are 2x8" and 2x10" versions. I like the 2x10's (JC-77 later boosted to JC-90).

[ne4tt]

You may also consider the Peavey Session 400.

Very affordable for a vintage amp. Around $300.

While the weight is around 55#, the Session is a great discrete solid state amp. Discrete = transistors, not ICs.

200W, but has a Master Volume to reduce output.

Early ones, ca 1975, had a JBL130. Later models changed to Peavey's Black Widow, 1502, then the 1501.

The 1502 is a bass speaker.

Some early ones had 2-12s.

Popular mods are replacing the factory signal capacitors with Sprague Orange Drops for a richer sound.

Peavey currently produces the 80W Nashville 12, which may be another amp to check out.

Jamie

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by gaddis

Well you're gonna get lots of opinions and I've only played a few models myself, but for my money you can't beat a D'Angelico EXL-1. I think they are around $1600 new but you should be able to find a used one for $1000 or so. I was very lucky and snatched this beauty up for $600. I traded in my Epi Joe Pass Emperor, which I never really bonded with.




Here's an example of what it might sound like, in hands more capable than mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqwTdKqrD3w

On the subject of amps, I'd say my Fender Amp Can gets a better jazz sound than pretty much any of the "real amps" that I have.

Wow that guitar sounds great! It sure looks cool too.