Assume I Were to Get Another Tube Amp

[FirstBassman]

I still can’t find the source of the buzzing noise on my Crate V18 and it is annoying the crap out of me.
And If I bring it in to get looked at it will probably cost as much as the amp did.

So, if I were to replace it, here is my quest and my question.

And please excuse the ignorance and dumb questions. I’m just a humble hobbyer who knows next to nothing.

I know we’re all in search of “tone,” the holy grail. And I’m talking about a “dirty” tone. After tweaking a few dials I can make a clean sound I like on anything. But I’ve never been happy with my “lead” (single note) tone. Big power chords? Yes. No problem. Single notes? Neh.

If I had to pick one example of what I’m after, it would be GE Smith. No matter the instrument he’s playing it always comes through with a nice, thick, warm sound dripping with reverb and “presence.”

Granted a lot of that probably comes from GE himself and I am a thousand light years in talent removed from him. But besides that . . .
I know he plays his amps at “ten” so that might have a little to do with it.

So, Question No. 1

If I need to play at “10” then I should get the smallest tube amp I can … for home and very (very) small venue use. Correct?

Every amp I’ve ever owned (tube or ss) always had some kind of gain knob. So, in theory one could get a dirty sound at a lower volume. But it has never really worked out exactly like that.

I thought that the early tube amps would “break up” on their own when the volume reached a certain level.

Question No. 2

So, if I want to achieve that sound, I should be able to turn up (a lot?) on a small amp and get the gritty sound I’m after. Correct?


Question No. 3

So, what should I get … that makes sense price-wise? Less than $500 doable?

Thanks.

[BigDaddyLH]

I have to say, I love the Mojo of the '57 Champ RI -- listen to all the clips:

http://www.fender.com/products//sear...tno=8160500000

It's got one knob -- volume! The only thing I can't swallow is the price - $1,000 on the street. But you can find clones for half that or less, right?

[Scott Auld]

I think you are on the right path. I think you want a small amp that breaks up (provides power tube distortion) when you crank it, rather than a 'gain' knob that gives you preamp tube distortion. I think you might want a Champ and crank it up. VOX also makes a very small amp that has a selector between (I think) 4, 1 and .25 watts, so that you can get cranked=amp sound at lower volume.

Good luck, man.

[Pickalittle]

Oh how I wish you hadn't limited the questions to the $500 as the Holy Grail is in your forum name: Bassman!

I own the Victoria 45410 version of the Bassman and unlike few amps, you can run it at any volume and it sounds like pure tone poured from the clouds of heaven. Now add a Zvex Box of Rock or a Fulltone OCD and there is no better crunchy rock, clean country, smoky blues or chimey jazz amp anywhere (different flavors maybe, but none better).

But that's not what you were asking. It is very difficult to find an tube amp at your price point for what you are asking. But here's my take.

1.) Yes (If "smaller" means low wattage)
2.) Yes
3.) What you might really consider is a used Fender Champ or even a Fender Champ XD . They can provide the sounds you are after with a reasonably convincing tone for a hobbyist (keeping in mind all I have ever owned and played were tube amps of various forms).

[Scott Auld]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

The only thing I can't swallow is the price - $1,000 on the street. But you can find clones for half that or less, right?

For his price range, he is looking at:

• Chinese-made PCB versions / reissues like the Champ reissue or the VOX I mentioned.
• Small-builder versions like Lil' Dawg etc.
• Roll his own, if he can build one.

[patrickhowell]

Originally Posted by FirstBassman

Every amp I’ve ever owned (tube or ss) always had some kind of gain knob. So, in theory one could get a dirty sound at a lower volume. But it has never really worked out exactly like that.

I thought that the early tube amps would “break up” on their own when the volume reached a certain level.

The "gain" knob on modern amps essentially the same as the "volume" knob on vintage amps. The idea of a "master volume" was added later on. If you want to get that vintage vibe, you've got to crank the master volume and run the amp really loud. Anything over about 1/2 watt is going to be too loud to do this at bedroom levels, and even your 18 watt might be too loud for small venues. The best way to get this tone at lower volumes is usually by using an attenuator between your speaker output on the amp and the speaker itself. This will let you crank your crate and keep your ears from ringing.

Where are you located in VA? I have a very affordable amp tech in Roanoke who may be able to help you out.

[marshman]

As noted, you are correct--that tone you're after is attained by crankin' tube amps up really loud.

An attenuator is one option. It takes some of the power created by the amp and turns it into heat, allowing your amp to be cranked, but siphoning off some of the power, so it's not as loud. Some folks don't like it at all, some folks love it, I've never tried it, so I'll refrain from judging.

If you are looking for that tone in an apartment, even 5 watts through a 12" speaker is gonna tick off the neighbors. Personally, I find the little single-ended jobbies currently flooding the market to be the bees knees. I have the Epiphone Valve Junior ( a real early one, lightly modded) loaded up with good Almost NOS American tubes and it sounds really nice with a tele (a little over the top with humbuckers), but any of the little mini-amps with the small speakers should be a good place to start for in-house overdrive.

Big speakers mean big tone (and if we're looking for low volume, that won't help), but I would be disinclined to gig with anything but an acoustic/electric duo with the typical 8" speaker, so think about that.

Options abound at this point. The Champ variants, the Vox AC4, the Epi VJr, the new Marshall Class 5, the Gibson Les Paul GA-5 (search that baby here), and beyond. Also bear in mind that decent condition Silverfaced Champs/Vibro-champs can be found in that price range by a patient shopper.

[BigDaddyLH]

Part of the rockin' sound of that Champ is from speaker breakup. An attenuator won't help deliver that, right?

[FirstBassman]

Thanks guys ... so far.
Glad to hear that I'm basically on the right track in my thinking.

I also have to add - I'm sorry I gave anyone the impression that I live in an apartment.
Since the separation I live by myself in a big house.
I can crank it up as loud as I want.

Aside: As a matter of fact a few weeks ago a neighbor asked me if I was still playing because he hadn't heard me in a while.

Originally Posted by marshman

I would be disinclined to gig with anything but an acoustic/electric duo with the typical 8" speaker, so think about that.

That's exactly the setup I'm after.

Originally Posted by patrickhowell

Where are you located in VA? I have a very affordable amp tech in Roanoke who may be able to help you out.

I live in Fairfax County ... pretty far from Roanoke.

[patrickhowell]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

Part of the rockin' sound of that Champ is from speaker breakup. An attenuator won't help deliver that, right?

Nope, you won't get any kind of speaker breakup without some serious volume. However, of the different methods to get overdrive from an amp at lower volumes, it gets you more of the variables than anything else:

1. Master Volume: Preamp
2. PPI Master Volume: Preamp, Phase Inverter
3. Power Scaling: Preamp, Phase Inverter, Power Amp
4. Attenuator: Preamp, Phase Inverter, Power Amp, Output Transformer

Also, if you use an attenuator, it will color the sound. You're better off if you use an attenuator with some sort of EQ controls to make up for this.

[patrickhowell]

Sounds like you'd love something along the lines of the Epiphone Valve Junior / Fender Champ. I have a pretty heavily modded Valve Junior combo, and I love it. I picked it up on a major sale, but at $200 street, it's still a steal.