Gibson GA40RVT questions

[Jack]

I'm not getting much response on TGP so I thought I'd try here (this is where the experts are at anyhow):0).

I've been looking for a nice PTP combo with a reasonable price tag for some time and when I ran across this amp I ordered one. On paper this amp has everything I want except maybe a tube rectifier and a master gain, but I can live without both. Anyhow, I'm looking for anyone with knowledge/experience with these amps. I've done my searching, but haven't found much and am curious why? Too good to be true? I'd like to know where they're made, what tubes they come with, etc.

Also, these amps are cathode biased and come stock with 6L6's. Could I roll in a set of JJ6V6GT's without issue?

Now if Sweetwater will just get off their butts and get my order shipped. I hate when they don't fill the order promptly.

[chabby]

They are nice but weigh a ton!!! I almost bought one last week until I picked it up.
Back breakers, but very affordable 6L6 bliss. I love them

[tazzboy]

There are some reviews of this amp at Gibson.com forum section you might want to do some readying on that.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by tazzboy

There are some reviews of this amp at Gibson.com forum section you might want to do some readying on that.

Those are very old and the one guy had issues with his, but that's about all I could find; very little. Did you find something other than this?

[tazzboy]

actually its the GA42RVT that has been discontinue which is 30 watt 2x12. They are similar to each other. Other than one is a 1x12 and the other is 2x12.

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=1841

[Jack]

Anyone?

I have some reading time as Sweetwater dicked me around on my order. Placed my order online last Sunday and didn't get a shipping notice Monday so I called and was told they would ship that night. Yesterday still nothing so I called again and was told they've been having problems shipping these amps due to the large transformers so they're opening to verify eveything and this is what was causing the hang up. He did upgrade to three day shipping and it's suppposed to go out today, but it will still be Monday now before I get the amp.

This is the second time I've ordered through Sweetwater and had issues. Anyone else have issues with these guys or did I just get lucky?

BTW, they charged my CC yesterday. No delay there.

[tazzboy]

Never had a problem other then item they didn't have in stock and they gave me refund.

[Jack]

Can anyone answer my question about using 6V6's?

[EFK1]

The 40/42 RVT (I have the 42) run 6L6GC cathode biased VERY hot. Stock, mine runs @ 495 VDC on the plates and only a volt or two less on screens. They idle at @ 90 to 100%. Also, there is no guarantee that the amp you receive will do all this: there are a bunch of revisions to the circuit and the schematics which Gibson sometimes will provide do not match even remotely what is in the amp (at least in mine). JJ 6V6 *might* survive in there but frankly I think you might want to change the cathode resistor at least. I'm using KT66 in mine quite happily now idling at @ 90%. The stock speakers suck - brash, thin modeling speakers which are discontinued by Emi. I replaced w/ Weber ceramic blue dog 30W and a Private Jack. Also I have done a lot internally and basically turned the whole thing into a cathode biased JTM45-sounding thing. These amps actually, in a lot of ways, sound a lot like the old Gibson amps - a thicker, darker sound than Fenders. Beautiful clean tones. 2 brands of 6L6GC which have worked really well have been the TAD str tubes and also Winged C tubes. Also, the stock generic chinese 6L6 are pretty good but the sovtek preamp tubes that came in it were awful.

[rangercaster]

as for Sweetwater customer service ... it's the best ... i ordered some strings and they called me to confirm the shipping address and quantity ... i doubled the order !!!

[Jack]

Originally Posted by EFK1

The 40/42 RVT (I have the 42) run 6L6GC cathode biased VERY hot. Stock, mine runs @ 495 VDC on the plates and only a volt or two less on screens. They idle at @ 90 to 100%. Also, there is no guarantee that the amp you receive will do all this: there are a bunch of revisions to the circuit and the schematics which Gibson sometimes will provide do not match even remotely what is in the amp (at least in mine). JJ 6V6 *might* survive in there but frankly I think you might want to change the cathode resistor at least. I'm using KT66 in mine quite happily now idling at @ 90%. The stock speakers suck - brash, thin modeling speakers which are discontinued by Emi. I replaced w/ Weber ceramic blue dog 30W and a Private Jack. Also I have done a lot internally and basically turned the whole thing into a cathode biased JTM45-sounding thing. These amps actually, in a lot of ways, sound a lot like the old Gibson amps - a thicker, darker sound than Fenders. Beautiful clean tones. 2 brands of 6L6GC which have worked really well have been the TAD str tubes and also Winged C tubes. Also, the stock generic chinese 6L6 are pretty good but the sovtek preamp tubes that came in it were awful.

Thanks so much for the info. Very helpful. It looks like you and I might be the only ones on the face of this earth to own this amp.

I received my amp yesterday. Beautiful amp. The inspection list on mine (I was impressed that it had one) is dated 11/07. How old is yours? I was a little surprised to see the "new" amp I bought was this old, especially when these are on back order everywhere except Sweetwater?

Mine came with a Eminence Legend speaker, Chinese power tubes and Sovtek 12AX7's. The first thing I did was replace the Sovtek's with Tung Sol's, but I actually preferred the sound of the originals so I rolled them back in. Normally Tung Sol's are my favorites in just about every amp I've owned. Go figure.

I've read some old post about folks having issues with these amps. Reverb not working, weak tremolo, etc., but everything on mine works fine and it sounds great. Like you said, it has a sound all it's own. I actually think it might lean a bit more toward a Marshall tone than Fender and it definitely has that old Gibson sound going for it. There is some hiss and when in the triode mode some very noticeable hum. It's not a dead quiet amp for sure, but it's not unreasonable and about what I experienced with my old DRRI. In my experience Class A amps seem to be a little more noisy, especially with hum.

I do have an issue and am curious if you've experience this as well. I get a fizzy sound on single notes when they're held to sustain. It's faint and kind of sounds like a bit of tube rattle, but it's there. Especially noticeable on E notes. It happens with all guitar and is there with both set of pre-amp tubes. Power tubes maybe? I have a couple of set of Mesa Boogie 6L6's, but I have no idea who makes them. I think they're probably Electro Harmonix. Do you think these would be better than the Chinese tubes?

BTW, did you have to make any mod's to use the KT-66's? I'm surprised they fit. There's not allot of room between the back of the 6L6's and the amp cover. I'd still like to try and set of 6V6's if I could just find out for sure that I could use them safely. I had them installed in my Hot Rod Deville and they worked like a champ. Maybe Euro-tubes can answer this for me?

[EFK1]

I've had mine about a year and a half. Don't remember what the date was on the inspection list but I think it was 2007 also. The KT66 just *barely* fit and I use a fan which helps with the cramped spacing. Of the two channels, the first is much more 'marshall' sounding and is designed w/ a modified James tone stack which is set up w/ just the faintest of low mid dip. Emphasis on mids and high mids. The second T/M/B channel is much more like a Fender, or actually I should say an old Gibson - a darker Fender. Very weird pot values and blackface tone stack w/ slight modification. Also my version of the circuit has reverb and trem on both channels - it's a bias vary trem. I added a PPIMV and love it as the amp is extremely loud. And I think the triode setting sounds like muffled ass! Never use it. SAVE ALL YOUR PACKING as I have heard mention from others somewhere online about the fizzy sound - I have not had this problem and it might be power tubes but make sure you save everything in case you have to send it back. Frankly I would replace ALL tubes first and try that - if your version of the circuit is like mine, V1 runs channel one, V2 runs channel two, V3 and V4 are for the reverb and trem and V5 is PI. I'm using JJ in V1, Tungsol in V2, chinese penta in V3/V4 and Tungsol in V5. As I mentioned, the speakers are Eminence Legends yes but they are Legend *Modeling* speakers, meant to be bland and colorless. Clear and very high power rating, but somewhat lifeless. You can push this amp one way or another by replacing with American or Brit type speakers. Gibson did not design this amp: board inside reads "Circuit design by Pyotr Belov, Board layout by John Suhr and Pyotr Belov." Also there is a 100pf bright cap on both volume pots - may or may not want to clip those to tastes, or maybe change values.

It probably sounds ridiculous but I have had more fun messing around in the guts of this amp than you can imagine! It's assembled in the US but it uses chinese power tubes, russian preamp tubes, Mexican-made transformers and choke (these are actually pretty darned good, very beefy and the OT uses JTM45 values but is bigger), and "asian" board assembly and most components. The turret board is handwired but does utilize a number of integrated traces. One problem as I see it are cheap Chinese electrolytics I haven;t got around to replacing those yet as I can live with some hum. The filaments are DC but the AC off the PT goes through a bridge rectifier that failed (on mine) about 2 months in; I replaced it with one about twice the size and rating to make sure it doesn't happen again. I also moved my power tube cathode resistor to the outside of the chassis to better dissipate heat and to make changing it much easier.

At this point, I have it set up to mimic a thick, heavy Beano/Cream/Black Cat Bones "brit blues" sound and just leave it set that way all the time, control overall volume with guitar and PPIMV. It's a very neat, LOUD and unique-sounding amp, especially for blues, but Gibson really could have done better. Too many bugs.

[EFK1]

Oops, yes I should mention I did mod the back of the amp to use the KT66. I thought you meant to the chassis, but I peeled back the tolex on the upper part of the back and cut it off square (even all the way across the top, in other words), thus removing the raised central portion of the back which extended to the top of the amp. Then, restretch and re-install the tolex. Honestly, I think this should be done anyway as those tubes are in a torture chamber much like JTM30/60s. You know, I do have a lot of problems with tube rattle - some of it just the nature of a combo amp and probably some of it due to the tubes being horizontal which I have been told can aggravate it. Try to pinpoint where that sound is coming from - try taking the back off and playing it while standing in back of the amp with your ear near the tubes. Does it sound like a 'fizzy' bell ringing?

[Jack]

EFK1 thanks so much for all the info. Mine also has the trem and reverb available at all inputs? I've tried playing it with the back removed and the fain fizzle sound at the end of the note is still there. A fizzy bell ringing is actually a very good description. It doesn't sound like the sort of fizz you hear with an electrical issue, if that makes any sense? And, it doesn't do it on all notes or if it does it's not nearly as noticeable on some. It reminds me so much of the tube rattle I used to get with one of my Peavey EL84 amps, but only at the end of note and much more faint and distant.

BTW, do you have to remove the back cover every time you change tubes? Allot of screws back there and they're long. Also, mine has rubber with sticky on each side? I can see some rubber for vibration, but why the sticky/glue? Did they not expect us to remove the rear cover?

[Jack]

What a difference some tubes make. I replaced the POS stock power tubes with my Mesa Boogies (Electro Harmonix) 6L6's and wow, I don't think I've ever heard a bigger difference. The fizz issue is gone and I can actually hear a distinct difference when rolling in different pre-am tubes.

Now all I have to do is find the right combination of pre-amp tubes to fit my taste. Man, I am so happy with this amp now. This has to be one of the most under rated amps around. Wow!

[EFK1]

Interesting. Mine does not have rubber or compression strip although I added some cheap weatherstripping there to cut down on vibration. When you have a chance after you've played it LOUD for a while, go around and check all the screws (speaker mounting screws, back screws, chassis screws under those plastic plugs on top etc.) as they will definitely need tightening. Any loose screws will also cause a buzzy vibration.

If you are going to stick w/ 6L6GC tubes, I'm telling you: you HAVe to try to try the TAD 6L6GC-STR in this amp. They sound GREAT and hold up very well. The Winged C tubes (shorter bottles) also sounded fantastic, but unfortunately both sets I tried (I tried them twice, 2 diff. sets) went microphonic on me within a few days of medium to high volume use. The TADs were still going strong when I went on my KT66 kick (from which I have never returned - MORE MIDS!). Also - I can only speak for the specific amp that I have, but the requisite internal work was already done (stock) to allow for trying out EL34 if you so wished. I'm sure a rebias would definitely be necessary, though.

[EFK1]

BTW - as you will find, it is very lonely owning this amp!

[Jack]

EFK1 do you remember if yours had masking tape on the corner protectors? Mine did and I found this odd. I also thought it was odd that the weather striping was in the back? I've never seen this on any other amp new.

The book, warranty, etc. were all in a sealed bag and the amp looks brand new, but considering the check-off list, tape, stripping, etc. I can't help but wonder if I was sold and amp that was returned or refurbished for a new price?

As I mentioned previously, according to Sweetwater shipping was delayed due to checking the amp before shipping because they were having problems with these amps being damaged. Sales guy said the transformers were so heavy that in some cases they were cracking the chassis' so they turned it upside down for shipping. I've been told this is a good and often common practice.

But, I've never seen a company use masking tape for any kind of protection as it sticks and has to be cleaned off (it was stuck to parts of the tolex as well) and it makes no sense to put weather striping that sticks to the cainet back. Glue on the amp side to hold it in place, but on both sides? Especially when you have to remove the back to get to the tubes.

Maybe someone was hearing the fizz issue and trying to fix it?? I can't help but wonder.

[EFK1]

Yep I had masking tap on the corners. It was a royal pain in the ass to get it off of there too. If you had the tape on there, I'd feel pretty confident it's brand new. Are you sure there is glue deliberately holding the back on? They used spray adhesive to hold the tolex in place and some of it is also on the exposed wood - the heat inside the amp heats it up and it gets tacky where it is exposed and may migrate. The fact that the back fits VERY tightly doesn't help.

I can't imagine anything that would crack this chassis - it is really heavy welded steel, but possibly the transformers could have been pulling out the threaded hex inserts which receive the mounting screws.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by EFK1

Yep I had masking tap on the corners. It was a royal pain in the ass to get it off of there too. If you had the tape on there, I'd feel pretty confident it's brand new. Are you sure there is glue deliberately holding the back on? They used spray adhesive to hold the tolex in place and some of it is also on the exposed wood - the heat inside the amp heats it up and it gets tacky where it is exposed and may migrate. The fact that the back fits VERY tightly doesn't help.

I can't imagine anything that would crack this chassis - it is really heavy welded steel, but possibly the transformers could have been pulling out the threaded hex inserts which receive the mounting screws.

Good news. This makes me feel better. I really had no reason to question Sweetwater as their reputation is impeccable.

I played around with tubes all day yesterday and in the end JJ in V1, and Tung Sol's V2/V5 were to my taste as well. The JJ helps to tame the 1st input and add some weight.

I also have a Hot Rod Deville and I didn't realize how thin the stock speaker in the Gibson sounded until I turned the HRD on next to it. You nailed it again and I totally agree with your speaker decision. I'm going to order a Weber Blue Ceramic for mine as well.

I'll probably do something with the bright caps on the pots as well, but I'm going to wait until I change the speaker out to see how things go.

You recommended the TAD 6L6's and I may have to give them a go as our local tech has been boasting about these tubes for some time. He's looked at my HRD and I almost couldn't get out the door without buying a set of TAD's. I thought he was just trying to make a sale, but maybe not. He told me these tubes totally transform the sound of any 6L6 based amp that he's tried.

Thanks so much for taking the time to school me on this amp. I love the sound of this amp and think it's a best kept secret. Even stock it sounds great and each little improvement just makes it that much better. I wish I knew what circuitry they based these amps on. The guy from Black heart and John Suhr are definitely some seriously talented dudes.

[EFK1]

If you order the Weber make sure you go w/ a least a 50W speaker. You have the 40RVT right? With just the single speaker, another you might want to try is either a greenback clone or maybe a 12H. For a single, some might say that the 12M/greenback does not have enough bass but this amp has SO much bass on it's own that you might be able to get away with it. I have the best of both worlds (for me), a greenback wannabe (private jack) being paired w. the Weber blue dog. The Private Jack sounds thicker and darker than a greenback and the Weber is quite bright so they compliment each other. Of course these are all Brit speakers - some of the Jensens would probably work wonderfully also if you were going down an American path.

I don't think this amp is based on any particular previous amp. It's something of a blend of Fender and Marshall; like a JTM45 or plexi, it runs one side of triode into a volume, then into the second side of triode, then into the tone stack. However, it's a plate driven tone stack like a Fender with modified blackface values (channel 2) as opposed to Marshall's cathode follower (Bandaxall/James on channel 1). Then on to the phase inverter, which is a balanced long-tail unlike the common Fender/Marshall unbalanced long-tail PI. No NFB anywhere. I feel the circuit was designed to allow for a dark, jazz or bluesy sound that can get quite raunchy especially when using the mix input (which parallels the two channels). A very Marshall-y, tweedy tone.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by EFK1

If you order the Weber make sure you go w/ a least a 50W speaker. You have the 40RVT right? With just the single speaker, another you might want to try is either a greenback clone or maybe a 12H. For a single, some might say that the 12M/greenback does not have enough bass but this amp has SO much bass on it's own that you might be able to get away with it. I have the best of both worlds (for me), a greenback wannabe (private jack) being paired w. the Weber blue dog. The Private Jack sounds thicker and darker than a greenback and the Weber is quite bright so they compliment each other. Of course these are all Brit speakers - some of the Jensens would probably work wonderfully also if you were going down an American path.

I don't think this amp is based on any particular previous amp. It's something of a blend of Fender and Marshall; like a JTM45 or plexi, it runs one side of triode into a volume, then into the second side of triode, then into the tone stack. However, it's a plate driven tone stack like a Fender with modified blackface values (channel 2) as opposed to Marshall's cathode follower (Bandaxall/James on channel 1). Then on to the phase inverter, which is a balanced long-tail unlike the common Fender/Marshall unbalanced long-tail PI. No NFB anywhere. I feel the circuit was designed to allow for a dark, jazz or bluesy sound that can get quite raunchy especially when using the mix input (which parallels the two channels). A very Marshall-y, tweedy tone.

Yes, I do have the 40RVT and this explains why I like it so much. I prefer a smoother/darker sound and I like my cleans with some body. Thin squeaky cleans are just not my thing. I spent last night looking at speakers and I changed my mind and ordered a C-Rex. I'm thinking this might preclude me from having to clip the bright caps and from the clips I heard this thing sounds really juicy. I just hope it doesn't make this amp too dark or lacking in detail. All the clips I could find had me drooling, so we'll see.

I'll let you know how it matches up with this amp.

[Jack]

EFK1, yet some questions if your still with me. Did you happen to try pre-amp tubes of different values? If now, I'd like to hear your thoughts about this; say perhaps a NOS 12AT7 in the PI position or maybe even the reverb?

You mentioned that you added a PPIMV and loved it. As bad as I hate to admit it, I don't know what this is.

Thanks again.

[EFK1]

PPIMV = post phase inverter master volume. I really go for a heavy 'Beano' tone and to get it with this amp I run channel one at @ 3 o-clock, channel 2 at @ 1 o-clock, and use the mix input. It is too loud for me to be in the same room with it, especially given it being a 2X12. So, I added a master which really does not affect the overall tone much at all. I might need to add 1 point worth of bass on the 2nd channel to make up for it. You can add this yourself (don't electrocute yourself!) or any competent amp tech could add it very easily. It's about $10 worth of parts. I used the basic Ken Fischer/LarMar type used commonly with Marshalls but with a small modification to ensure that the bias vary tremolo continued to operate properly (even though I absolutely never use it).

I tried 12AT7 in PI position (preamp tube closest to power tubes) and it tightened the whole amp up, cut down a little on the drive and added some brightness. I've tried all kinds of preamp tubes, 12AY7 and 5751 included. Personally I liked the AT7 in the PI the best, did not care for the others or for the AT7 in any other position, but always come back to the AX7. Using a 12AY7 in either V1 or V2 or in the PI is very useful for cutting volume and drive. The 5751 to me just made the whole amp a bit duller. AT7 in the PI *almost* makes the thing sound like a blackface despite the darker circuit and cathode bias.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by EFK1

PPIMV = post phase inverter master volume. I really go for a heavy 'Beano' tone and to get it with this amp I run channel one at @ 3 o-clock, channel 2 at @ 1 o-clock, and use the mix input. It is too loud for me to be in the same room with it, especially given it being a 2X12. So, I added a master which really does not affect the overall tone much at all. I might need to add 1 point worth of bass on the 2nd channel to make up for it. You can add this yourself (don't electrocute yourself!) or any competent amp tech could add it very easily. It's about $10 worth of parts. I used the basic Ken Fischer/LarMar type used commonly with Marshalls but with a small modification to ensure that the bias vary tremolo continued to operate properly (even though I absolutely never use it).

I tried 12AT7 in PI position (preamp tube closest to power tubes) and it tightened the whole amp up, cut down a little on the drive and added some brightness. I've tried all kinds of preamp tubes, 12AY7 and 5751 included. Personally I liked the AT7 in the PI the best, did not care for the others or for the AT7 in any other position, but always come back to the AX7. Using a 12AY7 in either V1 or V2 or in the PI is very useful for cutting volume and drive. The 5751 to me just made the whole amp a bit duller. AT7 in the PI *almost* makes the thing sound like a blackface despite the darker circuit and cathode bias.

I can see where the PPIMV would be nice to have. I'd like to do this as well, but the warranty?

I'm going to try and Jan Phillips 12AT7 in the PI just to see how it goes. My C-Rex is sked for delivery tomorrow so I've got allot to play with this weekend. My friend says the Rex is going to be too dark, but we'll see.

[EFK1]

I keep thinking somebody else is going to chime in on this thread. And yet... nobody does. The way I see it, either (1) this amp is horrendously awful and there is something wrong with just us, (2) somehow this amp has been overlooked, or (3) many may have been scared off by early QC issues. ???

I'll be interested in how the CREx sounds. Personally I think you might find it dark, based upon Emi's description, but you'll never know until you try. Are you using HB or single coils? With a LP type guitar, I run the bass on channel 1 no more than noon and on channel two at only @ what would be 2 or 3 if the amp had numbers. Gotta keep the bass turned way back - there is a LOT of it in the circuit.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by EFK1

I keep thinking somebody else is going to chime in on this thread. And yet... nobody does. The way I see it, either (1) this amp is horrendously awful and there is something wrong with just us, (2) somehow this amp has been overlooked, or (3) many may have been scared off by early QC issues. ???

I'll be interested in how the CREx sounds. Personally I think you might find it dark, based upon Emi's description, but you'll never know until you try. Are you using HB or single coils? With a LP type guitar, I run the bass on channel 1 no more than noon and on channel two at only @ what would be 2 or 3 if the amp had numbers. Gotta keep the bass turned way back - there is a LOT of it in the circuit.

Looks like you and I are the only Gibson owners and I think that's kind of cool. Not many people have our amps and IMO they're missing out. While doing my research I did see some talk from people having issues, but honestly most were pretty minor and I didn't see anything major mentioned. I can honestly say that I've never owned an amp I like better. As you mentioned previously, the pre-amp tubes and speaker needs to be changed, but at the price we gave for a PTP hand made amp with all the features and killer sound of this amp, who cares? I would probably have been better off with a lower powered version, but no biggie. I just use what I need. The cool thing is it sounds great at all volumes.

I installed the C-REX and couldn't be happier. I wouldn't describe it as dark, but rather laid back. Just not in your face and this is exactly why I like it. It never sounds harsh, but the detail and overtones are there. If you were to compare the sound of this speaker to a type of music it would be the blues. Weird analogy, but it's hard to describe this speaker. It never offends. Complex overtones as good as any speakers I've ever heard. Just a very sweet/smooth sounding speaker with a robust, but not flabby low end and a soft/sweet/round high end. I can see why allot of people like these in their black face amps.

My primary guitars are a strat and tele and IMO single coils sound better through this speaker, but I think they sound better through just about every speaker.

I can see why this might not be everyone's cup of tea because some are going to want a more aggressive sound, especially those into the metal stuff. But, for an old fogie like me who likes the classics it's perfect. It's more in the green back camp than a V30 if that makes any sense. A Plexi rather than a black face.

I told Sweetwater about my tube issue and they're sending me a new set. I think I actually like the sound of the Chinese tubes included with the amp better than my Boogie's (EH's). I still want to try a set of TAD's.

I tried my Jan/Phillips 12AT7 in all positions and you're rite, the 12AX7's are the correct choice for this amp. I did end up with Tung Sol's in every position except for the reverb and tremolo. I had a JJ in V1, but I went back to the Tung Sol's. A better match with my power tubes and my speaker. With the JJ it does get a little too dark.

I'm looking forward to the C-Rex getting broken in and sounding even better. Bottom line is that I'm out of the market for a combo amp and my other two amps are going to be on the block. This is the amp I've been looking for.

BTW, you wouldn't believe how good this amp works with my Line-6 X3 Live in front of it. I didn't think the Line-6 could sound so good. Very believable simulations.

[Jack]

EFK1, you still with me? I just wanted to let you know I got a set of TAD tubes and they are indeed awesome in this amp. However, the C-Rex is no longer installed. After living with it for a bit it is indeed too dark for this amp and the bass is too heavy even when turned all the way down. I reinstalled the Legend GL128 modeling and it does work better, but is not the end solution so my search continues.

At least I'm happy with my tubes. :0)

[EFK1]

Where do you think you are going to go next? Our situations are a bit different as I'm strictly a humbucker guy and going for a very Brit tone, and I'm using a 2X12 so I can combine speakers to various effects. With a single 12 you probably have to be more careful, especially to avoid a flubby bass (more of an issue for me w/ humbuckers than for you with singles). I would definitely not recommend a greenback type as by itself in the open back your bass will probably wash out a bit. I LOVE the Weber blue dog ceramic that I have in there - VERY much like a typical celestion blue alnico, but w/ the ceramic it holds together better under heavier volume and yields a tighter bass. Very bright and chimey speaker: I'm getting a lot of that ringing "kerrang!" kind of sound. You might want to try one, and certainly cheaper than an alnico speaker. Weber speakers are top-notch and there are a few guys on eBay that deal in them so you don't have to wait. Mine is a 30W but w/ a single you might want to up it to 50W rating to be safe. I'm probably going to swap out my private jack (the second speaker in there) and try either a G12H30 to tighten up the bass or a Vintage 30. Either of these might work well for you in an open back single as well. The V30 can be very picky in regards to the amp with which it is mated, but I think given the darker character of this amp combined with all the bass, the upper mid and so-called "icepick" (at times) characteristics of the V30 might be neutralized somewhat. Unfortunately, I can't be of much help with an American style speaker choices but I am positive that there are others here who can steer you right. Also, higher power ratings will help keep the bass tight.

Anyone? Beuller? Beuller...?

[Jack]

You nailed it again. There's a guy selling a Blue Dog 50 watter on TGP and I offered him my C-Rex in trade. After much research the two other speakers I've got on my short list are the V-30 (I've got a feeling it will be a really good fit for this amp) and a Eminence Legend 1258 (very tight a subdued low end, boosted mids and typical Fender/Jensen vintage highs).

If you end up with a V-30 let me know how it turns out. BTW, I got an answer back from Eminence on the stock speaker. Here's his response:

"Hi Jack,

It sounds like you have the old Legend Modeling 12, which was discontinued several years ago. I have attached the old datasheet. It was designed for modeling applications, but discontinued due to a lack of demand."

Regards,

Anthony Lucas
Technical Support
Eminence Speaker LLC
anthony.lucas@eminence.com
502-845-5622 ext. 341


I can see why there was a lack of demand. However, as I said before, this one works great when I put my Line-6 X3 in front of the amp. As it should since this is what it was designed for. Can't believe Gibson stuck these in there. They probably got them for next to nothing.

I'm thinking of trying mine in my Roland JC-120. Might actually be an upgrade in that amp.

[marshman]

I'm listenin', boys...I spotted one of those (actually, one of each) for a really good price last spring in a local shop, but was halfway to a new Eden all-tube bass head with my GAS fund, and stuck to my guns. I do like the idea, and hope one day to have a shot at one of these. You guys are gonna save me a whole lotta time with this thread, that's fer sure.

Just out of curiousity, what're the odds a 15" speaker might fit in there?

[EFK1]

Hah! I go the same email from Anthony Lucas a year ago when I asked for the old pdf rundown on the Modeling-12. I can not for the life of me figure out why Gibson chose that speaker, of all speakers, to stick in this thing. Probably a 'try to please everyone' decision that inevitably does not work. That 50W BlueDog would be perfect. As soon as I get some extra money to spend I'm going to grab a used V30 and give that a try and will post how that works out compared to the Private Jack (I like the PJ basic tone, but it sounds slightly 'muffled' to me).

Marshman, a 15" speaker in this is not going to happen. There isn't enough height between the base of the cab and the bottom of the chassis, even if you were to cut a new baffle. Could do a 12 and a 10, though, which might be interesting.

[Jack]

EFK1 I traded my C-rex to a friend for the V30 out of his Bogner Alchemist. It's a one of the newer Chinese versions which some say aren't as nice as the Brit models? It's perfect for the bottom, but it has a pretty nasty high mid-range spike I can't live with. Just a little too edgy for my taste. I don't mind some mid-range boost, but it needs to be smooth. I can't recall ever having heard a speaker more detailed then the V-30 and that's a mixed blessing. Make a mistake and look out, she tells.

I put mine up for sale or trade on TGP to see what kind of offers I can get. I guess I'll just keep tying to trade until I find something that works for me. Starting to wish I would have went with the 2X12 myself so I could counter balance, but with just one speaker it's going to be a little tougher.

BTW, what did you do with your Modeling-12? I'm thinking about getting another one and giving them a go in my JC-120. I'm going to install the one I have and see how it works, but I think they just might be O.K. in that amp? It still has the stock speaker and I've read that just about anything is a good upgrade to those.

Also, do you think I should consider a Private Jack in my quest or do you think the bass would be a bit much? I considered this model when I first started, but if memory serves on paper they looked to be a bit bass heavy?

[EFK1]

I've got 2 of those Modeling12 speakers, and have been sitting on them for a while but I'm never going to use them. I just put them both up on ebay quite cheap along with an extra Private Jack. I don't know you but based on what you have described thus far, the Private Jack may not be what you are after. It's a very 'thick' speaker, not excessive bass but it's also pretty dark. Darker than a greenback actually, which is what it is supposed to emulate. I really think a Blue Dog would do you right, although they too are incredibly detailed. Will really make you work harder at being precise!

[Jack]

I think I've found the speaker for this amp. I bought a new Eminence Legend 1258 and installed it yesterday. I've had family in town so I haven't had a chance to give it a good work out and of course it's the honey mood period and it needs to be broken in, but there's no doubt I like it better than anything else I've tried so far. Thinner mid-range than the V-30, but a tighter bass with a smooth mid-range and aggressive, but not harsh top end.

It gives the amp a Fender/American flair for sure. The chimey top end and subdued/tight bass work well in this amp. Even thought this is a ceramic speaker it really has a bit of the alnico sound to it. I've read that's it's used as a direct replacement for alnico speakers in old Fenders and now I understand why.

I expected it to work well with the 2nd channel, but surprisingly I like it better with the first channel. I have to back the treble down to about 9:00, but it sounds really great.

It's so hard to describe the characteristics of this amp. As you said, channel 1 has a bit of clean Marshall sound and channel two Fender, but neither sound exactly like either. I think it's unique sound is really cool.

Anyhow, I think this speaker will stick. I still find the V128 intriguing as well, but maybe I'll save that one for the Epi Valve Sr. I have on the way in case the Lady Luck doesn't work out. :0)

[Jack]

OK, what a difference a day makes. Played the new Legend for several hours yesterday, but found myself missing the fullness of the V30. Put it back in and while it's not perfect (what is?) I prefer it over the Legend. Even though it has a bit of a hard edge I really like the awesome detail and full mid-range. Also, the bass is just about perfect for this amp.

I'll keep the 1258 for my Epi Senior and use it to get my Fender sound. It comes with 6V6's and I'm hoping it has a black face type circuit, but I honestly have no idea.

Anyhow, for your 2nd speaker I say the 30 is worth a try and better then the Legend 1258 for this amp.

[EFK1]

Thanks for that info Jack - don't take this the wrong way, but your comments on the Eminence tell me what NOT to use. I know it's blasphemy but I am not usually a fan of Fender amp tone, so if the Emi is pushing it towards a Fender tone than it is not for me. What I like is a thick brit tone with clarity, which is why I'm a bit disappointed in the Private Jack. I've used a lot of Emi speakers and I think I've come to the conclusion that they're *almost there* but not quite. The PJ has a great thick brit tone, but it's almost muffled for lack of a better word. Dull. If you ever listened to the huge thread on TGP concerning the Scumback speaker tests and listened to the PJ samples, that's EXACTLY how the PJ sounds to me. I tried a Emi Wizard last year, very loud but it was all bass all the time. The Weber blue dog, conversely, seems like it wants to jump out of the amp. Spectacular. I'm going to order a few speakers this weak to audition on place of the PJ, will definitely pick up a V30 off ebay and definitely a 12H as well - either Celestion or Scumback. Maybe a Weber alnico silver as well - I have a lot of respect for Weber speakers. I know they're pricey but I'd like to settle this amp once and for all. I'm extremely happy with my circuit mods and cap changes, so just trying to get the speakers settled. A lot of guys on TGP go on and on about the Emi GB12 but I'm kind of 'off' Emi at this point. Hate to do it, American company that they are.

I sincerely hope you post some detailed opinions as to the Valve Senior when you get it. I gave up on it actually materializing a LOOOOOONG time ago!

[Jack]

I agree. I think the Emi's do the Fender thing very well, better than the original Jensen's IMO. However, when it comes to the British sound I think you have to chose Celestion or Weber. I wish I would have went with the Weber Blue Dog from get go. I'll still probably get one just to satisfy my curiosity. Maybe I'll wait until you get your V30 so I can get an idea of how the two compare. :0)

I put the Emi Modeling 12 and the Legend 1258 in my JC-120 and they totally transformed that amp. I can't believe how much better they are then the stock speakers. So at least I have a use for all the speakers I currently have.

My Valve Sr. should arrive today so I'll be able to throw the Lady Luck into the mix as well. I'll give you some feedback on that amp as well.

[cmm71]

My local shop has one of these amps. I love the look and at roughly $850 it's not a bad price. I've been kind of thinking about looking at it closer but this thread, especially the talk about the QC issues, has made me a bit hesitant. I prefer the Fender tone but Fender's prices have been putting me off a bit lately so I've been looking elsewhere.

[Jack]

There are only a handful of post that I've been able to find about these amps. One had a fizzle issue, as did mine and the other was an issue with the reverb I believe. Anyhow, there aren't allot of post and if someone has an issue I think they're probably more likely to make a post then those who don't. As you probably read, my issues was a tube. Since I've replaced it I haven't had any issues so my issue was tube issue, not an amp problem.

I'm a Fender guy too and am still tinkering with the Gibby, but I'll find the right combination of speaker and tubes eventually and will have a killer hand wired PTP amp at about the same price as a stock DRRI.