Apartment Playing

[unmarshal]

Hi All,

I have some questions for you apartment dwellers out there, or for people who in general need to watch their volume.

I love playing and I adore my gear. I have a Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue and I love playing my 52' Vintage Reissue Tele through it. The shimmering tone from this amp blows me away.

The problem however is that I can rarely turn it up past 1.5 on the volume without causing my neighbors to bang on the ceiling. I hate being "that guy" who plays his music so loud to the detriment of others so I'd like to find a good solution that will allow me to put all this expensive gear to good use while maintaining tonal integrity.

I should also note, I just purchased a Vox AC4 head that is on its way to me now. I did not buy a Vox cabinet because of the particle board so my plan is to drive my Deluxe Reverb Speaker with it for now.

Do any of you guys have any suggestions on how to use my DRRI in a more effective way? How are the external attenuators? What brands and features should I be looking at?

Thanks in advance,
Marshall

[drewsblues]

For playing in your apartment, stick with the AC4 (when it shows up). Attenuating the DR isn't -- in my estimation -- going to give you the same goosebumps that it does when your neighbors are pulling their hair out.

[Joe-Bob]

This might help. It will disconnect the amp from the floor.

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...er-?sku=580002

[unmarshal]

ah very good. I share no walls with any neighbor so this may help a push me to the 2-3 on the volume. Thanks.

I plan on probably using my AC4 primarily. I'm not too interested in overdriving the DRRI.

I have seen a bunch of talk about using Weber Attenuators with the DRRI.. would this be a waste of cash?

[sax4blues]

I get the feeling that if anybody can here my playing it is considered loud. I play in our garage and I play at the most mellow volume, I really don't care about getting THAT tone, I just play my electric softly. She comented the other night about being worried I'll make the neighbors mad.

[rangercaster]

disconnect the amp from the floor

great advice !!! a few old phone books also are good (thick ones work) .... try one of the little Roland or Vox SS modeling amps ...cheap portable and great for low volume ...

[Brian blaut]

I used to live in an apartment in San Francisco. AND I usually played at night 11:00-2:00. An amp never worked for me. If I did use an amp on a rare occasion during the day, it was just loud enough to hear, let alone have any decent tone.

So I got a Vox Tonelab. Its really a decent modeler. Its no tube amp, but for practice and screwing around, its great. Put on a descent pair of headphones and crank it up. I still have it, but now at night (while the family is sleeping) I go through my line6 UX2 plugged into my computer. Same deal. Decent enough modeling. Decent tones at any time of night. I mean, at home, all you're really doing is practicing anyway...

[JohnnyCrash]

Perhaps a headphone amp or modeler like some have mentioned.

Another option would be an overdrive/distortion pedal.

Also mentioned are Attenuators.

Another option (sorta covered) is isolation. Get it up off the floor and put a baffle in the front and on the sides.

[studio1087]

The little VOX DA5's have a great Fender Blackface tone and trem and reverb (and lots of silly effects). For $135 they make a great late night amp.

Another great option to find a POD Express. Plug your guitar and your ipod and your headphones into the POD and you can crank the music and the guitar. It's so easy to learn songs with headphones.....everything is so clear.

I have a lot of fun this way.....



I paid $59 for the used POD Express at a guitar shop.



Neat little gizmo.

[Scott S]

When I lived in an apartment, I'd put the amp on my bed. That did a pretty good job of decoupling it from the floor.

Still, anything over 1 watt, into a speaker that isn't completely blown, is going to be loud enough to annoy someone.

[unmarshal]

So, I'm not in any bands, have no interest in being in a band and my only place to play is at home. I have a podxt and a pocket pod and decided playing with headphones using modelers are just not the same as the real deal.

My next step is to find a practice space in the city where I can stash my amps and visit 3x a week to turn up. What a bummer. I'm hoping this Vox AC4 that arrives on Tuesday is my savior.

[unmarshal]

that pocket pod express looks actually better than the pocket pod. i'm a big fan of having a single rig that does exactly what i want. i'm not a fan of so many options.. i find it distracting. the amps modeled on the express i am a fan of, so maybe i'll give it another shot. i gave my pocket pod away a while ago. the biggest thing i did like about it was the CD in.

[voided3]

Originally Posted by Brian blaut

I used to live in an apartment in San Francisco. AND I usually played at night 11:00-2:00. An amp never worked for me. If I did use an amp on a rare occasion during the day, it was just loud enough to hear, let alone have any decent tone.

Exactly. I either play through a little 15 watt bass practice amp super quietly (though it sounds surprisingly good for guitar and bass since I took the back of the cabinet off) or play through my audio interface using a saved Garageband file with an amp simulator rigged up for both guitar and bass into my Extreme Isolation headphones. Either that or I just play an electric unplugged if it's quiet around me; my slide guitars have .013's on them so they are actually quite loud unplugged (for a solid body). As others said, it's practice, not a gig; the focus is on what you're playing, though I'll agree it's more motivating to play if you don't sound like butt.

[biker joe]

Don't nock the attenuators- I think they work great. I use both weber attenuators and thd hotplates. They work really well for those cramped sf living quarters. I have a 1-2 watt tube amp (emery sound micro baby) and even it, is too loud for neighbors at night. I bet the new low powered vox will be similar. However, my attenuated super, or princeton reverb work great, and especially together to dispers the low volume sound and make it feel bigger. For practically the cost of a pedal, it can make an amp a lot more versatile.

That being said, you still might want a small modeling amp or something with headphones like a tonelab to really be nice to the neighbors.

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by unmarshal

I'm hoping this Vox AC4 that arrives on Tuesday is my savior.

Its still going to be surprisingly loud. A 5 watt amp is still not "apartment" friendly - though in a house it might be OK.

5 watt amps are friggen LOUD.

Attenuators when dialing down a 15+ watt amp to apartment volumes, will make a noticeable difference in your tone... enough for me (a total tube snob with a dozen+ tube amps) to say you're better off with a POD for home jamming. PODs have come a long way.

I know some people who now only play through their PC/computer with modeling software... I know even more who record this way. If I had the money, I'd add modelers to my home studio toolbox alongside my tube amps.

[kman900]

I have one of the blue VOX Valvetronix amps (ad120VT). It has great Blackface and AC30 sounds and you can play it, sounding absolutely great, with as little as 2 * 1 Watt!

Love it!

[Dave Hopping]

I like the headphones bit......If you live in an apartment,the neighbors aren't the only ones around who become aware that you have musical instruments.And musical instruments have this wretched habit of waltzing right off with the first burglar who's been casing your apartment and gets in when you're out......or when,as in Praisecaster and Garytelecastor's case,you're home.

[klast]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Its still going to be surprisingly loud. A 5 watt amp is still not "apartment" friendly - though in a house it might be OK.

5 watt amps are friggen LOUD.

Agreed. Although the AC4TV has 1/4 W as lowest output setting, it's still a bit loud for breakup in an apartment.

Klas

[Tremolo7]

Originally Posted by klast

Agreed. Although the AC4TV has 1/4 W as lowest output setting, it's still a bit loud for breakup in an apartment.

Klas

Yep, I had the AC4 10", but just sold it because it was too loud... Next I'm going to check out AC4 8", if it's any better.

[neocaster]

I'm in a small townhouse. When neighbors are about/nearby I either use:
1: modelling amp at low vol, or with headphones
2: headphone amp (VOX amplugs are compact and inexpensive, $40)
3: PC device (Line6 toneport) if I want to record

Attenuating a DRRI makes it very sad. It would be like gagging your great dane.

[Tlon]

I'm in the search for the same thing. Not quite apartment living but living with two little kids and wife in a smallish place. I can't play very loud at all, especially when the kids are asleep. The may not solve the problem for you completely, but I just bought a Mesa/Boogie Lone Star Special. I'm still trying to decide if it's perfect for me, but it does give me a nice tone at low volumes. The amp has two channels, a gain and master volume for each channel, and an overall output knob for both channels together. It also switches wattage on each channel from 5/15/30 watts. It's great and I can get nice low volumes on both a clean and dirty channel with a foot switch.

[stantheman]

I got my first Champ when I lived in the city and frankly it was too loud then.
But now the thing I'd do is have an fx board or something like multi fx and just use a dab of the Champ's volume as a master sorta thingy.

Once some years back I brought my Peavey Classic to someone's apartment in Lawrence for a little playing and was afraid I brought too much power...I walk into the back room
and there's THREE MARSHALLS - FULL STACKS.

Ya never know...

[Breezecookie]

I have the AC4TV (combo) and love it. That being said, breakup at 1/4 watt is still loud-ish. I just got a Creative Audio Labs Holy Fire overdrive/distortion, and it is the best, most amp-like pedal I've heard, AND it has a volume control so you can get your desired tone at ANY volume, unlike the notches on the Vox attenuator. But get the head first and try it out.

[HappyTelecaster]

I use an old Marshall 9001 tube preamp as Headphone practice amp or send the preamp signal through a `58 Champ clone - this setup delivers a great variety of fantastic sounds at bedroom level. Plus you can get these old rack preamps for quite cheap since they have fallen victim to the JMP-Hype that came later on. For me, I don`t care if an amp hast menues, sub-menues and hundreds of presets like the JMP. I`d prefer an amp where you can simply dial-in your sound settings with knobs like the 9001 any time.

[Hiker]

In a townhouse with neighbors left and right-
At home-prefer a 15 W amp at various volumes, or with headphones.

1. G-Dec 15;
2. Vox Pathfinder;
3. Super Champ XD (hybrid tube, and the no headphone option was not a deal breaker).

[boneshaker335]

I use Amplitube Fender on my MacBook. I use either high quality headphones or studio monitors. Best tone I could manage to get at low volumes or with headphones. Much better than the tone I get from my Cube 30x at low volumes or with headphones.

For the amplitube setup to work successfully, you need a good low latency sound interface with instrument inputs.

[brokenjoe]

Get to know your neighbors. Find out when they're out.

[Tlon]

Originally Posted by boneshaker335

For the amplitube setup to work successfully, you need a good low latency sound interface with instrument inputs.

Do you have any suggestions for such an interface. I've tried the Lightsnake and found it both unreliable and to have an amazing latency.

[Stevie 202]

Originally Posted by biker joe

Don't nock the attenuators- I think they work great. I use both weber attenuators and thd hotplates. They work really well for those cramped sf living quarters. I have a 1-2 watt tube amp (emery sound micro baby) and even it, is too loud for neighbors at night. I bet the new low powered vox will be similar. However, my attenuated super, or princeton reverb work great, and especially together to dispers the low volume sound and make it feel bigger. For practically the cost of a pedal, it can make an amp a lot more versatile.

That being said, you still might want a small modeling amp or something with headphones like a tonelab to really be nice to the neighbors.

I have one of these guys. I crank my amp (40w) to about 4-5 and then dial her back. Kick in just a bit of treble boost (built in) and away I go.
Also, definately isolate from the floor.

Another thing; I have a habit of playing for 2 hours a day in the early afternoon. Always the same time. That way the neighbours know what to expect.

(It helps if you try to be 'musical' as opposed to 'noisy')

Good luck!

[Stevie 202]

Oops-double post

[4 Strings]

Originally Posted by Scott S

When I lived in an apartment, I'd put the amp on my bed. That did a pretty good job of decoupling it from the floor.

Still, anything over 1 watt, into a speaker that isn't completely blown, is going to be loud enough to annoy someone.

+1

Most of the so-called bedroom amps are at least 5w. I would be kicked out from my apartment in less than ten minutes if I ever let my Champ breathe in here. The guitar player in one of my bands regularly borrows it when we gig. This is at a smaller place for sure, some 40-50 seats and another 20 something people standing around, but anyway he gets by just fine with that little Champ.

I have abandoned my No Pedals Principle just (trying) to achieve a nice OD tone at neighbour friendly volumes. But I'm afraid there is no substitute for an overdriven amp once you've heard one...

So what I am trying to say, I guess, is that either you got to find yourself a place where you can play the amp of your choice at the volume of your choice, or else try to find a really low powered amp. How's about them Z.Vex Nanos for example, anyone tried them?

[bloos66]

Originally Posted by Tlon

Do you have any suggestions for such an interface. I've tried the Lightsnake and found it both unreliable and to have an amazing latency.

I use my 'old' Line6 Toneport UX2 for Amplitube (& Fender) and it works great, no latency problem at all. I connect it to a standard MacBook. Together with the FarmPod software, I have tons of sound options. The amps in Amplitube Fender are excellent.

Other than that, I support the other comments re bedroom play, and I use:
- Roland Cube30 through headphones (love the Tweed setting)
- Vox amPlug AC30
- PodFarm/Amplitube

I have a Victoria Blues Deluxe (20112) and usually have it turned up to 2 which is pretty loud already. After 9am I always switch to headphones, or I take out my acoustic and work on my fingerpicking skills....

[nvilletele]

I've tried attenuators (well, only the THD Hotplate) and found it sucked all the tone out. So I sold that, and now use a Carr Mercury for "quiet" playing. Lowest setting is 1/10 watt, goes up to 1/2, 2 and 8 watts. So can get really loud (for inside a house, 8 watts of tube is pretty extreme). But at 1/10 watt, you can crank it real crunchy without disturbing anyone.

Only thing is the Mercury is pretty expensive . . . . I got one from ebay at a really good price.

[JohnnyCrash]

After an experience last week, I spent the morning downloading and playing with all sorts of VST amp modelers on my computer. Even for being free, the 5 or 6 I have are pretty decent and I even found a few cabinet modelers.

Will I use these for recordings? No, not yet - the pay-for software I've heard is MUCH better, realistic, dynamic, and complex sounding... would I use them if I never gigged or recorded? Yes. Pretty dang good (better than good for being free), and several have built in effects (a Twin Reverb mode with reverb and trem for instance).

For my budget and for recording, I can't afford the stuff I'd seriously use - but for home jamming at neighbor friendly levels, there's a lot of good stuff out there.

[johnnytronics]

Listen, you're paying good money to live there and if it isn't after 10pm at night , no cop will ever hassle you. Get to know the neighbors if possible, and tell them that from time to time you're gonna being playing 20-30 mins at a clip. As long as there aren't any infants around you it's an option. There's a guy behind me, actually on the next block who practices his bass during the day sometimes, and vibrates my walls. No biggie.

[VerySlowHand]

I just bought a Boss Micro BR, but already I'm not sure if it's just too flippin' complicated. A Pod or Pandora, with iPod, or that Tascam thing, might have been better.

That aside, I can't help feeling a little detached from my guitar when the 'phones are on; and there's a nice ambience to be had from 'filling' a room, even with low volume sound.

[unmarshal]

Thanks for the replies. All very good advice. The AC4 head arrives tomorrow and I will give it a spin. I think I'm going to talk to my neighbors downstairs and ask them if they can hear me, if it bothers them and what times are best for them.

[Natstrat79]

Just for information sake. The DRRI has an 8ohm speaker and the Vox ac4tv is going to want to see a 16ohm load. While the vox output transformer is oversized and might be able to handle a mismatch such as this it is not the optimal thing to do. The l-pad attenuator in the vox is also designed around a 16ohm load. This is probably why vox didnt include multiple speaker taps as these would change the resistance needed in the l-pad under the different loads in order to maintain the same level of attenuation.

[VerySlowHand]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

I've tried attenuators (well, only the THD Hotplate) and found it sucked all the tone out.

Out of interest, after rigging up the attenuator, did you try adjusting the tone controls on the amp?

[Bodeen]

Kinda funny, I suppose, but as of late I find myself plugging into either my Champion 600 or little Pignose more than any of my others (no, seriously). lol It's just that, to my ear anyways, these little amps just sound so dang raunchy when cranked and a tubscreamer in front (or lower volume with two tubescreamers), and they don't tend to be as loud as some think, especially the Champion 600. Fwiw...