different amps in recording studio

[koen]

In a few weeks my band is going to the studio to record some tunes. We went over last night to check it out and I saw they had some small tube combos that we could use, a Peavey 30 and a Crate 18. I have a 5E3 myself and definitely want to bring that as well. Just curious to see how much different the other two sound compared to my 5E3 (I play a Tele). I mean I *love* my 5E3, but it would be nice for a recording to try out other sounds as well.

[brokenjoe]

If you can, and if you've got the time, bring EVERYTHING in. It's been my experience that although some amps sound great live, they sometimes aren't the best in the studio.

The other thing I would suggest is to take the time placing your mic(s). Engineers have set ideas about where the mic should go for optimal sonic quality -and they're usually right- but moving a mic a few inches can make a HUGE difference.

A lot of engineers/producers don't wanna move a mic from where they think it should be placed, so to compromise, you might try putting a second mic in another position, and then listening to see how either (or both) tracks sits with the mix.

My favorite guitar sound was to use a 57 tight on the speaker, and then a sennheiser 421 about three feet out, and off axis. Of course, it depends on the track as well.

Have fun!

[jjh37854]

ya bring it, I also love bi-amping in the studio, run one overdriven and dry and one clean and wet and pan the 2

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by brokenjoe

If you can, and if you've got the time, bring EVERYTHING in. It's been my experience that although some amps sound great live, they sometimes aren't the best in the studio.

The other thing I would suggest is to take the time placing your mic(s). Engineers have set ideas about where the mic should go for optimal sonic quality -and they're usually right- but moving a mic a few inches can make a HUGE difference.

A lot of engineers/producers don't wanna move a mic from where they think it should be placed, so to compromise, you might try putting a second mic in another position, and then listening to see how either (or both) tracks sits with the mix.

My favorite guitar sound was to use a 57 tight on the speaker, and then a sennheiser 421 about three feet out, and off axis. Of course, it depends on the track as well.

Have fun!

Very good points.

First, bring and borrow every amp possible.

Second, make sure you really get to know the amps well before going into the studio... as best as possible. Spend a few hours with every amp you borrow/bring to avoid having to spend on-the-clock time getting acquainted. Know what each amp can and can't do. Know their personalities and subtleties.

Third, as mentioned, the producer/engineers will already have a comfort level in micing, mixing, and EQ'ing the two amps they have in-studio. Don't be difficult, but try to challenge them to get VERY different sounds from not just their amps, but avoid trying to make your amps sound like their usual in-house setup.

Push them to avoid their status quo. You don't want to sound like every other cookie they've cut from the studio, you want to make each song's sound, tempo, and feel different according to its strengths. I'm a firm believer that "signature tones" are horrible ideas. They'll make every song blend together to your CD listening audience, whereas each song should stand on its own in its best possible light. The singer as well as the subtle nuances of everyone's playing habits/styles will give you a signature identity - your tone should compliment each song/part... live, all hell's breaking loose, so set it and forget it... the visual keeps things from being mundane there.

Unless of course you and the band aren't paying for the studio... in that case someone else has a vested interest in seeing the product do well and its hard to argue with a free meal.

[nosuch]

if your amp sounds good to you, try microphones, placement etc. until it sounds good on tape. unless you have free studio time I would not try to be to smartass with the engineer make him try every amp, every position. time is money and more so in the studio. get your sound (and look for the sweetspot in the room to place your amp) and be insistant that it is captured well on tape (a SM 57 may work fine but is not always the best tool for that). It may be wise to also record a second direct line for reamping ...

[Jason G]

If you've got time booked in a studio, make the most of it. Bring everything you can... check around with some buddies and see if you can borrow/rent some of their cool gear.

Jason G

[koen]

Great tips everyone, much appreciated!

Originally Posted by jjh37854

ya bring it, I also love bi-amping in the studio, run one overdriven and dry and one clean and wet and pan the 2

What do you mean by 'wet' and 'dry' ?

[Jahmbie]

Originally Posted by koen

Great tips everyone, much appreciated!



What do you mean by 'wet' and 'dry' ?

'Wet' is with effects, typically reverb, echo, or delay.
'Dry' is an unprocessed, eq'd signal.

Another possibility is to "reamp" your guitar signal. This involves running a DI signal straight to the board along with your amped and mic'd signal. What this allows you to do is run the 'clean' direct signal back through an amp as if it was an outboard effect during mixing. Check with the recording engineer to see if they can do this, but it adds a lot of possibilities to your tone.

[koen]

Ah, thanks Jahmbie.

We're only going to spend one day in the studio, it's a low-budget project. So there's not much time for experimenting I am afraid. But I do want to make sure that not all songs sounds the same, as pointed out above. I have a few more weeks before November, so am definitely going to try out more settings on my own amp, and try another guitar before we go to the studio.

[nosuch]

one day and on a budget. you won't be able to try many amps, the musical performance is the main thing anyway. bring your sound, make sure the guy captures it well and think about the music rather than a bizzillion of tones. running a di-signal in paralells will allow you to experiment with anything you like AFTER the recording, reamping, virtual amp plugins, effects whatever.
but first and foremost make sure you do a decent performance.

[koen]

*bump*

Another thing I just wondered about is wheather I should play at the same volume that we are used to play during a gig? I think for a recording I'd prefer a little more cleaner sound (for clarity), which means turning it down on a 5E3. What's usually done in a studio?

[nosuch]

Originally Posted by koen

. What's usually done in a studio?

anything. I think you should just try to set your sound for each song as you like it - if it works well with the other instruments. if your sound works life it will in the studio. You can experiment with turning it up or down more anyway.
It's the engineers job to capture your performance and eq it so it sits well in the mix – you should give him a sound that works in the context anyway. as you have little time I would start from what you do live and tweak the 3 knobs on the 5E3 from there if needed. man, it is just 3 knobs so nothing to fear. relax!
hope you have fun recording. let us hear the results.

[patrickhowell]

If you still have a chance before you go into the studio, it'd be a really good idea to record a practice or live show. Then you can can listen back and take notes on what parts of which songs might sound better with different tones / effects / etc. Somebody in the band probably has something laying around that you can use to make a lo-fi recording like that.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by koen

*bump*

Another thing I just wondered about is wheather I should play at the same volume that we are used to play during a gig? I think for a recording I'd prefer a little more cleaner sound (for clarity), which means turning it down on a 5E3. What's usually done in a studio?

that's a wise idea ... you can add dirt to a clean track, but you can't add clean to a dirty track.

realistically, one day in a studio won't allow you time to set up, dial in and re-mike many amps ...i recorded the last "real" album i made on a 5E3, and you can get a rainbow of sounds by twiddling the knobs ... so find a comfortable volume for the 5E3 and adjust your dirt with the volume control on the channel you're not plugged into, and adjust the tone knob for bright/dark/extra gain. minor adjustments will give you a distinct sound for each tune — not as much as a different amp, but not monotonous either. then you can go to work on your guitar tracks post-production.

[Geoff738]

Originally Posted by koen

*bump*

Another thing I just wondered about is wheather I should play at the same volume that we are used to play during a gig? I think for a recording I'd prefer a little more cleaner sound (for clarity), which means turning it down on a 5E3. What's usually done in a studio?

One consideration - if you're playing "live" in the same room and you're loud, there's a greater chance that your guitar sound is going to bleed into a lot of the other mics.

Might not be a problem.

But, if you decide later that you don't like the guitar tone or you want to redo your part over again for whatever reason, then you're kinda stuck if if the original guitar is already there in the background of other tracks.

The producer and/or engineer should let you know if that's an issue.

Cheers,
Geoff

[klasaine]

Chances are, as mentioned already, you probably won't have any time to try different amps. Go with what you know.
If by chance though you do have some time for an overdub or a 'double' (or maybe there's some down time because of a tech problem or a busted drum head or whatever?), Plug in another amp. Tell the engineer to just mic like he usually does.
Or, use a studio amp on an overdub or a 'double' for the timbral difference.

[koen]

Good tips everyone, thanks!

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by koen

*bump*

Another thing I just wondered about is wheather I should play at the same volume that we are used to play during a gig? I think for a recording I'd prefer a little more cleaner sound (for clarity), which means turning it down on a 5E3. What's usually done in a studio?

Set the amp so it sounds good in the room and in the cans (headphones, monitors, etc).

I'll repeat it again: Spend a lot of time at home tweaking your amps and getting to know them. On the clock time is no time to get acquainted with your amp(s).

I always feel that Live is completely different than Recorded and approach them differently with regard to amp/tone.

[mattbastardson]

Do it Chuck Berry style!

Walk in with confidence, plug your guitar into your amp, get your tone in the room and be able to hear yourself in the headphones, and play your ass off.

After that, let the engineer do his job and everything will be great.

The performance is the key, you can make all kinds of adjustments in mixdown. What's the old saying " Ain't nothin' we can't fix in the mix"? Something like that...you get the point.

Your tone will be there with your guitar, amp and you. Just throw an SM57 in front of it and floor it.

Take care,

Matt

[koen]

So yesterday we finally we went to the studio. What a great experience, it sounded sooo much better than any rehearsal room recording we have so far. For every song (we ended up doing four) we played bass, drums and basic guitar all together. One or two takes was usually enough. Then each of us could fix a few bum notes, and after that I went in and played a second part, a solo and sometimes even a third part. Since we have only one guitarist, I could 'invent' parts on the go, most of them worked out great. At the end of the day we started the vocals, and we will finish everything tonight.

And all I used was my Tele, Mission 5E3 amp and a tremolo pedal in one song.

[Jakedog]

Glad to hear it went well! I know you're already done tracking guitars, but I missed this thread the first time around. In case you want to try something cool next time, here's one of my favorite studio techniques for mic'ing-

If you use open-back amps, which i'm assuming your 5E3 is, try mic'ing the back too. I mostly use an open back 2X12 cab. I get one mic off axis up close to one of the speakers, right up on the grill, a room mic to pick up room sound, and then I stick the third mic in the back of the cab. Usually use a 57, stuck straight in, pointed right between the speakers in the back of the open back cab. I don't use a lot of this signal, but mixing a little of it in with the close mic'd track usually adds a really big smooth fatness to the overall sound. Sometimes it can be too much and it gets scrapped. But other times, if you feel you're not quite getting enough nuts out of the guitar sound for a particulr track, it can work wonders to mix a little rear-mic signal in.

It only really works with open back cabs though. I once tried mounting a 57 inside a closed back Marshall cab. It was really bad idea.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

If you use open-back amps, which i'm assuming your 5E3 is, try mic'ing the back too. I mostly use an open back 2X12 cab. I get one mic off axis up close to one of the speakers, right up on the grill, a room mic to pick up room sound, and then I stick the third mic in the back of the cab. Usually use a 57, stuck straight in, pointed right between the speakers in the back of the open back cab. I don't use a lot of this signal, but mixing a little of it in with the close mic'd track usually adds a really big smooth fatness to the overall sound.

this really is a great technique, and i had a lot of success with it on the last "real" album i made. BUT a word of caution: on one tune i had some phase cancellation, so pay close attention to your mike placement.

[brokenjoe]

Glad to hear it went well. Many times that's not the case especially when one isn't familiar with a studio environment.

Years ago, I used to be a bit of a studio rat. I absolutely loved it -almost as much as playing live. Eventually, the studio becomes one big instrument, and you learn how to 'play' it.

It's also a great place for band arguments/fights as well !!!!!!

[koen]

So in case anyone is interested, I put the 4 songs (not yet mastered) on our website. We spent 1 day recording all instruments, and needed two more evenings for the vocals and mixing.

And I did not experiment with my setup, everything is my Tele through a 5E3. The engineer used two mikes in front of my amp.

[nosuch]

sounds good enough to me.

[Scott S]

Sounds really good overall to me. Very cleanly and dryly recorded, sonically like the first Talking Heads record. Your "clean" guitar tones have some good complexity, and the leads have bite. Is that about how your live tones are?

- Scott

[Red Sun]

Always take all you can to the studio. For one thing mics color sound and rooms color sound. What you hear playing in rehearsal or gig is totally different in the studio.

All amps are not suited for studios. Also one of the beauties of recording is that you can spend time looking for the perfect tones for each song, thus giving them their personality.
In the studio, everything goes. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Take all you guitars as well and fx(if any). Take the recording experience as a creative endeavor. Make the most of your songs by searching for the SOUND. Plus mixing different amps, combining mics can give you a whole new pallet of sounds.

[Martin R]

Originally Posted by Red Sun

Always take all you can to the studio. .

If you can afford the time.

[Post Toastie]

That sounds pretty darn good. Great job for the first time in a studio.The songs instrumently sound kinda like Cracker (one of my favorite bands) .Well done!!

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by woodman

this really is a great technique, and i had a lot of success with it on the last "real" album i made. BUT a word of caution: on one tune i had some phase cancellation, so pay close attention to your mike placement.

On the rear mic you have to flip the phase.

[backalleyblues]

Nice tones, good work on getting some really nice sounds on there. the only thing I would do differently (and this is only personal taste) is a just a touch of reverb on the guitars, snare, and maybe the vocals, just to give it a little air and space... that was a good choice using your 5e3, a good one always works in the studio.

Franc Robert

[mjb1967]

Originally Posted by koen

So in case anyone is interested, I put the 4 songs (not yet mastered) on our website. We spent 1 day recording all instruments, and needed two more evenings for the vocals and mixing.

And I did not experiment with my setup, everything is my Tele through a 5E3. The engineer used two mikes in front of my amp.

Great to see there is still good music comming out of Chapel Hill!!!
Ever hear of Snuzz?

[koen]

Thanks for all the compliments, we're pretty pleased with it ourselves as well :) Of course there is always room for improvement, but we did not have much time.

@Scott S: I use an A/B box to switch between the normal and bright channel, both volumes are around 6/7, the tone setting is 8/9. And yes it's basically my live setting.

@mjb1967: no, I don't know who that is.

[Zillinois]

Originally Posted by jjh37854

ya bring it, I also love bi-amping in the studio, run one overdriven and dry and one clean and wet and pan the 2

Absolutely, one of the best methods around!
Get in there and try the different amps, you may like what you find...