Hot Rod deluxe upgrade......pics!

[1962guitargeek]

First off, thanks to Garytelecaster for telling us about this mod kit. I told my bud Tom about it & he decided to get it for his amp.


So, with out further ado, here we go....


pic 1: the first thing one notices is that the electronics are totally sealed. That means NO ventilation, which means no cooling. I'm no expert on amps, but I do know enough about electronics to know that is not a good thing.

Thinking about fabbing up a plexiglass cover with some vent holes...



safety first! I ensured the caps were discharged, and I removed my wedding band.



here's a pic of the kit. I'll show more detail as we progress....




here it is after 20 minutes of disassembly. All power transformer leads unplugged, tubes removed.

[1962guitargeek]

some more dissy pics....

Hey Tom, it's not as bad as it looks!




This is as far as I got today. I want to finish this by next weekend....

I will post as I progress.....

[garytelecastor]

Lookin' cool gg.
Hey if you make up the plexiglass cover let me know. I'll pop for one.

[popthree]

wouldn't a louvered back increase the possibility of moisture getting into the amp ? is heat really a big problem inside that chassis ?

[Billm]

A plexiglass back won't provide any shielding unless you cover it with aluminum sheeting or self-stick foil, like the stock back. You may wind up with more hum.

It looks like the photos in the instruction sheet are of a Blues Junior, not a HRDx.

It appears that the kit trades sealed plastic jacks for sealed plastic jacks--is there a net gain? Also, carbon comp plate resistors? Could be as much a source of noise as tone. But the silver micas and Orange Drops will help the tone stack.

[1962guitargeek]

Originally Posted by popthree

wouldn't a louvered back increase the possibility of moisture getting into the amp ? is heat really a big problem inside that chassis ?

I suppose it may...I have no experience with these amps, But I have read that they have gotten hot enough to melt solder...?

I think it I'll leave it as it came until there is a problem...

Originally Posted by Billm

A plexiglass back won't provide any shielding unless you cover it with aluminum sheeting or self-stick foil, like the stock back. You may wind up with more hum.

It looks like the photos in the instruction sheet are of a Blues Junior, not a HRDx.

It appears that the kit trades sealed plastic jacks for sealed plastic jacks--is there a net gain? Also, carbon comp plate resistors? Could be as much a source of noise as tone. But the silver micas and Orange Drops will help the tone stack.

The instructions seem to have pics of both....?

I hadn't looked at the kit that close yet. Maybe it changes the values & range? Do you think metal film would be better? I was wondering about the jacks myself...


This is my second amp project. My first was my own Classic 30 that I have yet to finish....it has been a crazy summer at my house...

I admit I'm a novice, but I feel that jumping in with caution and some research is a great way to learn. Especially on my buddy's amp. (hi Tom!! )

I welcome all constructive comments and suggestions!

[modestglock26]

Quick question about modding the HRD...

Can different tubes be used in V1, V2, and V3?

What I'm getting at is...I have a handfull of 12AX7's but only have them in couples of 2. So I could use two of one kind, and one of another.

Is this bad for the amp?

[1962guitargeek]

I believe so. here's some good reading for preamp tubes....linky



BillM, re. the input jacks. The Fender units are hard mounted on the PCB board, the new ones have a short lead to give it some flex....

gotta go make a living now, see ya'll tonight.

[Pepi]

Originally Posted by popthree

wouldn't a louvered back increase the possibility of moisture getting into the amp ? is heat really a big problem inside that chassis ?

That's my thoughts too. Most of the heat is developing outside of the chassis. The PC board doesn't have to many components that run real hot. There is also space on the back side of the PC board for air flow.

[Billm]

Can different tubes be used in V1, V2, and V3?

Sure, brand doesn't matter. There is no reason to match them. Only output tubes need to be matched. The preamp brands all sound a little different and folks often prefer one brand to another in a given location. V1 is by far the most sensitive to tube brand and quality.

But I have read that they have gotten hot enough to melt solder...?

The resistors used in the footswitch circuit can get very hot. Fender has updated them and the current production is not a problem, to my knowledge.

I hadn't looked at the kit that close yet. Maybe it changes the values & range? Do you think metal film would be better? I was wondering about the jacks myself...

Personally, I would use 1W metal film if I were rebuilding a HRDx or BDx.

I replace input jacks in amps like these all the time. But I use Switchcraft metal jacks whenever possible--they're indestructible. I use shielded wire to connect them.

I assume this is a Jfromel kit. I think he mostly just packages other people's published mods and sells them as kits with grand claims.

[stratdaddy92]

Hey ray,
The progress looks great!... I'm anxious to take the finished product for a test drive!... I hope your neighbors have good insulation...:-D

[stratdaddy92]

Hmmm was that the red or green wire?.....

[1962guitargeek]

Originally Posted by Billm

Sure, brand doesn't matter. There is no reason to match them. Only output tubes need to be matched. The preamp brands all sound a little different and folks often prefer one brand to another in a given location. V1 is by far the most sensitive to tube brand and quality.



The resistors used in the footswitch circuit can get very hot. Fender has updated them and the current production is not a problem, to my knowledge.



Personally, I would use 1W metal film if I were rebuilding a HRDx or BDx.

O.k., thanks Bill


I replace input jacks in amps like these all the time. But I use Switchcraft metal jacks whenever possible--they're indestructible. I use shielded wire to connect them.

I assume this is a Jfromel kit. I think he mostly just packages other people's published mods and sells them as kits with grand claims.

Yes it is....now we know.....

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by 1962guitargeek

First off, thanks to Garytelecaster for telling us about this mod kit. I told my bud Tom about it & he decided to get it for his amp.


So, with out further ado, here we go....


pic 1: the first thing one notices is that the electronics are totally sealed. That means NO ventilation, which means no cooling. I'm no expert on amps, but I do know enough about electronics to know that is not a good thing.

Thinking about fabbing up a plexiglass cover with some vent holes...



safety first! I ensured the caps were discharged, and I removed my wedding band.



here's a pic of the kit. I'll show more detail as we progress....




here it is after 20 minutes of disassembly. All power transformer leads unplugged, tubes removed.

This is a "HOT ROD" Deluxe. What do the modifications do??
The Deluxe is rated at 22 watts and the HOT ROD is rated at 40 watts.

[Guran]

Originally Posted by Bandit

This is a "HOT ROD" Deluxe. What do the modifications do??
The Deluxe is rated at 22 watts and the HOT ROD is rated at 40 watts.

Nah. Just to clarify, Hot Rod Deluxe is 40 watts and Hot Rod DeVille is 60 watts. Hot Rod Deluxe has nothing with Deluxe Reverb (22 watts) or tweed Deluxe or any other Deluxe except Hot Rod Deluxe to do.

[1962guitargeek]

Originally Posted by Bandit

This is a "HOT ROD" Deluxe. What do the modifications do??
The Deluxe is rated at 22 watts and the HOT ROD is rated at 40 watts.

Here's the kit as we saw it on E-bay....linky

[garytelecastor]

Originally Posted by Billm

I assume this is a Jfromel kit. I think he mostly just packages other people's published mods and sells them as kits with grand claims.

It seems on this site that for whatever post there is there are plenty of people who can't let them pass without being negative and slamming someone.
Yes, me included, but I am going to work on it.
The Kanye/Taylor thread is understandable, but a thread about doing modifications?????? Come on....

He, he, I guess I am an idiot. thanx for clearing that up for me.

OCyEsTJi4541p_11.gif

[backalleyblues]

I've been looking to do these mods to my HRDX (thanks Justin Holton!), but I was wondering (maybe someone can point me in the right direction) is the Jfromel kit worth it, in terms of cost, vs. sourcing the parts yourself? It does cover everything I want to do, so that's cool in a "one-stop-shopping" sense, but would it be significantly cheaper (>$5 cheaper) to scrounge around online for an hour?

Thanx,
Franc Robert

[jfromel]

Thanks to Garytelecaster for pointing me to this forum. My bench guitar is a MIM Baja Tele (custom shop designed) and that's what I tested the mods on so this seems like a good place to discuss the mods. So to answer a few questions.

1. The amp can get hot which is why I recommend installing the power resistors 1/4 inch off the PCB. I would not recommend any added ventilation or Plexiglas back, you are just asking for noise problems.

2. I used to supply the open frame switchcraft jacks but recently switched to the enclosed switchcraft jacks because they fit much better in the newer HRD's and I have never had any reliability issues with them. They are actually a more expensive jack than the open frame. FWIW I have also started using the same style jacks on most of my pedals. The goal is to get the jack off the PCB and the enclosed jack takes care of that.

3. Regarding the plate load resistors. I have A/B'd the HRD with carbon comp resistors and metal film resistors and did not notice any difference in noise. I thought the amp with the carbon comp sounded better so that's what I supply with the kit. I will say that the difference in tone was slight, it was not a blind test and other factors could have affected the tone of the amp such as how broken in the speaker was or the tubes. If you want to put in metal film resistors then go for it.

4. The mod kit is based on the information found at Justin Holdens site which if you have not checked it out and have a HRD you are missing out. http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/ The other guitarist in my band uses a HRD and the OT blew, the local shop wanted $350 to fix it so I decided to take it on myself. I never really liked the tone of the HRD so I set about to actually "FIX" the amp. I ended up dropping the amp to 25 watts with a new Hammond OT and running it on JJ 6v6 tubes. V1 with a 12AY7, V2 with a 12AX7 and V3 with at 12AT7. Then I got into modding the tone stack and tried most of the mods on Justin's site as well as quite a few others, then tweaked the mods until I got the amp sounding how I wanted. Which was pretty great. Others started bringing their amps over and one customer suggested that I make a kit and sell it. So I did.

The kit I sell essentially takes the HRD to the spec of the original Blues Deluxe with a modified tone stack, higher quality components and a couple extras for good measure such as brightness caps for both volume controls and an extra filter cap for the first stage.

5. Price of the kit - I think you could source all the parts yourself for about $30-$35 including shipping. I am really not sure because I order in bulk from Mouser and I am an OEM for Ruby. Is it worth an extra $10-$15 to get all the parts you need in one bag with detailed instructions and customer support if required? If you want to go do it yourself, here is the BOM I use for the kit.
2- Switchcraft 12A enclosed NC jack
2- Shoulder Washer
2- Fiber Washer
1- Alpha 100KA PC mount 16mm pot
1- Ruby Gold 47u 450v filter cap
1- Orange Drop 400v .015 film cap
1- Orange Drop 400v .1 film cap
1- CD 220pf mica cap
2- CD 100pf mica cap
1- 100K .25w metal film resistor
1- 82K .5w carbon comp resistor
5- 100K .5w carbon comp resistor
2- 470ohm 5w power resistor - older HRD's use 470ohm which if mounted off the board 1/4 inch do not present any problems. Newer HRD’s use 330ohm 5w power resistors.

I am looking forward to participating in this forum and if anyone has any questions please let me know.

Thanks

[redddog]

Really cool of you to show up.

I was seconds away from grabbing one of your kits when I got a trade offer from someone for my HRDx. I ended up trading that for a mint AC30 cc1.

I still miss some things about the HRDx though.

One question with those amps is that they get a bad rap for their reliability. The consensus in some of the snobbier tone forums is that if it hasn't broken down, it will shortly. Understanding that internet forums aren't the most objective sources of information, does your kit address those reliability issues?

[jfromel]

Originally Posted by redddog

Really cool of you to show up.

I was seconds away from grabbing one of your kits when I got a trade offer from someone for my HRDx. I ended up trading that for a mint AC30 cc1.

I still miss some things about the HRDx though.

One question with those amps is that they get a bad rap for their reliability. The consensus in some of the snobbier tone forums is that if it hasn't broken down, it will shortly. Understanding that internet forums aren't the most objective sources of information, does your kit address those reliability issues?

I address a lot of the reliability issues. The power resistors on the made in USA amps are all bad and the plate load resistors are known to present problems. Also taking the input jacks off the PCB helps as well.

However you will always have an amp built on a PCB that is fragile. That being said I still would not tour with a modded HRDX without a backup. Gigging around town no problem.

One other mod you can try is swapping out the OP-amp for the reverb, the stock is a TL072 but I like a Burr Brown OPA-2134 in there.

[1962guitargeek]

Hi J man and welcome. Very cool of you to show up here. I appreciate your input.

Doesn't look like I'll be able to get to it 'till Saturday...gotta take mom to the doctor tomorrow - she's not doing real well....(Sorry Tom )

Funny story with this amp and my Hamer Echotone.

We (Tom and I) unknowingly played the same guitar with this very amp hours apart. He was there first. I had just gotten back from taking my soon to be Darling Bride to the Raleigh. I was a bit depressed, so I stopped and checked out some guitars.

I was ordering parts for a project. As I was waiting I started strumming the Hamer. I kinda liked it right off, even unplugged.

The salesman started his pitch, and plugged me into this amp. I bought the guitar....


I told Tom about the guitar. He wound up buying the amp later....

[garytelecastor]

thanx for signing up and Welcome J.
I have been using it mainly for local gigs and it has been very dependable so far.
I am more than satisfied with the amp, and I absolutely dig it now that I have done the mods. They completely renovated the amp.
One other thing I would suggest guitargeek would be to replace the stock speaker. I used a CV 30.
But in all sincerity, I harbor no illusions that this will hold up to a Matchless or a Dumble, but it will do the job.

[JohnnyCrash]

The parts can be had for $20 or less.

As far as resistors - metal film are MUCH less noisey than Carbon Comp resistors. With this handful of resistors though, it might not increase noise too much.

The common wisdom is usually that all resistors should be higher wattage, Metal Film resistors... and if you want a tad more warmth, use Carbon Comp (CC) only for preamp plate load resistors... but this also increases noise (especially as the gig goes on for a while).

Resistors resist by means of heat transfer (part of the CC noise factor), and I seriously doubt any could get hot enough to melt solder! It does sound like earlier models may have used under rated (wattage) resistors in the footswitch circuit, which can cause failures due to heat.

Internal chassis heat is not a problem at all with the HR Deluxe. Plenty of room. Most of the heat will be outside the box, from the tubes.

The increased filteration on the 1st spot in the B+ chain (just before the filter choke) will only slightly increase bass response, but probably not add lower frequencies much, if any (the amp will have more reserves of power for low frequencies which require more power to reproduce). It may or may not be noticeable depending on your usual volume/settings, but when really cranked - it can be a more noticeable step up.

As far as the tonestack mods - much of this is taste/opinion, not "improvement." For instance, stock its: 250pF Treble cap with 250k pot, 0.1uF Bass cap with 250k pot, 0.022uF Mid cap with 25k pot, and a slope resistor of 130k. Simple lowering the value of the slope resistor to something like 56k will seriously add a ton of bottom at around 100Hz and bump up the Midrange a few DBs. From there you can reduce the 0.1uF Bass cap to 0.022uF to remove some subsonic "woof." In anycase, as you can see, just chaning the slope resistor value can change the entire character of the amp (one where I would recommend reducing the Bass cap and possibly tweaking other things to "fix" something the mod might make worse on the other end of the frequencies)!

For a guy like me, I can do this for under $20 myself and fine tune the tonestack for my own tastes (not being stuck to the cap values in the kit), but for a newbie, I guess the kit and instructions might be a cool thing.

[1962guitargeek]

Wow! Thanks for the input JC. I do appreciate it.

I might wind up with that electronics degree yet.....

Tom is thinking @ a speaker. We're gonna wait see how it sounds after the mods and go from there.

I started modding my Classic 30, it got put on the back burner. I'm starting to "see" my way around these things just a bit, seeing how the signal flows.

Yeah, being a newbie the instructions are VERY helpful. Talked to a guy at work who picked up a nonfunctioning sf Princeton some years back. If this goes well, I'll see if I can talk him into letting me take a look at it.....This is fun...

[JohnnyCrash]

Originally Posted by 1962guitargeek

Talked to a guy at work who picked up a nonfunctioning sf Princeton some years back. If this goes well, I'll see if I can talk him into letting me take a look at it.....This is fun...

Coax him into selling it to you - afterall its "broken."

Princetons are small/easy circuits to troubleshoot/fix. For a few bills in parts you might have yourself a "new" Princeton!

[1962guitargeek]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Coax him into selling it to you - afterall its "broken."

Princetons are small/easy circuits to troubleshoot/fix. For a few bills in parts you might have yourself a "new" Princeton!

I try, he picked it up years ago. He knows what he's got, & he know's they're pretty simple amps. He sounds like a Marshall guy, so I keep trying....

[jfromel]

Originally Posted by garytelecastor

thanx for signing up and Welcome J.
I have been using it mainly for local gigs and it has been very dependable so far.
I am more than satisfied with the amp, and I absolutely dig it now that I have done the mods. They completely renovated the amp.
One other thing I would suggest guitargeek would be to replace the stock speaker. I used a CV 30.
But in all sincerity, I harbor no illusions that this will hold up to a Matchless or a Dumble, but it will do the job.

I like a V30 in these amps as well, another great change to consider is the cabinet. The stock cab is made of MDF, besides being really heavy it does not sound very good. Going to a plywood cab will take some weight out and the wood will resonate better. I have seen a couple on line dealers who sell them. It still won't sound like a Matchless but it will get the rock on!

[garytelecastor]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

The parts can be had for $20 or less.

For a guy like me, I can do this for under $20 myself and fine tune the tonestack for my own tastes (not being stuck to the cap values in the kit), but for a newbie, I guess the kit and instructions might be a cool thing.

Hey Johnny-
Thanks for your input. I agree that the parts can probably be had for about $20, and if I had your knowledge and experience, I wouldn't worry about it.
But for me, I didn't have the time or knowledge to be able to pull this off.
As far as the extra $25, well, we all have to pay the rent, and it is really a nice package. The instructions are very clear and explanatory, and so I really didn't mind spending a couple of extra bucks.
All of the work is done for you, and that is worth at least $25 to me.
But, again, I don't have one ounce of the knowledge you and J have. Later-g

[1962guitargeek]

o k update time

finished the amp. it has a some power issues.

I sent J a pm, I'm hoping he can point me in the right direction.

I'm sure its something I did wrong. I'm quitting for the night, tomorrow's a new day.....

[1962guitargeek]

Fixed it!!!



(hanging my head low.....)

had speaker plugged in the wrong jack

doh! (sound of slapping forehead, I mean, five head.....)




Waiting for my Darling Bride to wake up so I can test drive it.....

[Smoky Booroo]

Are these mods good for a blues deluxe? I've heard they are very similar amps .

[1962guitargeek]

Originally Posted by Smoky Booroo

Are these mods good for a blues deluxe? I've heard they are very similar amps .

Hey Smoky B

J sells a kit for the Blues Deluxe also...linky

This thing sounds good to me, but like I said earlier I don't have enough seat time to judge the mods.

Tom can give his assesment when he comes over later.

[stratdaddy92]

I could'nt be happier with the results of this mod kit!.. It sounds friggin' awesome!
If you were thinking about this mod,I'd do it.It really cleans things up and takes out the
"farty" crappy sounds on the dirty channel.The sustain is now incredible..
this is a great upgrade.However,these parts should have been in the stock amp! coming out of the factory....It's always about the absolute dollar/profit margin...
I want to give a special thanks to "1962guitargeek" for installing this mod into my HRD...
You did an awesome job!!.. Thanks again bruddha! Now, onto your peavey classic 30...

[stratdaddy92]

Just to let you all know,1962guitargeek is responsible for most of my G.A.S. problems!
My guitar/amp count seems to either change or get modded every time he sends me a link! He got me hooked into this site awhile back.Then I heard Arlo West's "oasis" tune...
Youch!!!!!!!!!...... So now you know of course what's up and coming?... Come on.do I need to say it!! That's right! A pine caster has got to be done!.. I'll be sure and post pics.whenever I get the chance to start it!.......

[garytelecastor]

Man, I am so glad you got the problem straightened out, gg.
When I read your PM I actually got a little sick to my stomach.
Stratdaddy, I am 100% in your corner, and really glad that it worked out so well. I don't know if you had it done, but I would dump a CV30 in it. It will sound boutique.

[1962guitargeek]

Originally Posted by garytelecastor

Man, I am so glad you got the problem straightened out, gg.
When I read your PM I actually got a little sick to my stomach.
Stratdaddy, I am 100% in your corner, and really glad that it worked out so well. I don't know if you had it done, but I would dump a CV30 in it. It will sound boutique.

Felt like I got kicked in "the bad place" when I realized their was a problem....

But it's all good now. We were discussing a speaker change today....plans are in motion...

[stratdaddy92]

Gary,
I have'nt thrown in the cv30 yet!.... It's on the "to do" short list though!!

[stratdaddy92]

hey GG have you found any good mod info or kits for the paevey classic 30 yet?

[1962guitargeek]

Nothing new...made a list & ordered my parts when I got home.

I miss my amp....