tweed pro or transitional tremolux for blues/r'n'r?

Kelsey · May 14th, 2004, 01:51 PM

I am scouting around for a nice vintage amp to add to my collection, which currently includes a SF Princeton (nonreverb), a '67 Ampeg Reverberocket 2, and a '59-'61 Gibson GA-5 Skylark. A local shop has a '53-'54 wide panel tweed Pro and a '63-'64 blonde Tremolux that are around $1200 each, give or take $100.

The Pro is a wide panel tweed in good condition with some tweed missing at the corners and a replacement 15" Jensen Concert speaker (they may be able to locate the original speaker to include in the deal). It has a pretty bass heavy tone with very little treble response (the replacement speaker might be from a Leslie cab). Other than the speaker, it appears to be all original, and it's pretty quiet at idle.

The Tremolux needs a replacement power cord but is otherwise in excellent and original condition, both head and 2 x 10" cab. It is a transitional blonde with a blackface circuit. I haven't heard it yet, as it is in for repair of the power cord now.

My question is, which of these amps is likely to be the best choice in terms of (1) tone for blues-based music, (2) use in home, studio, and small gig settings, and (3) long-term investment prospects? Of course, I don't have to buy either of them, so a general "just say no" response is welcome, too.

Your opinions are appreciated.

fontaine · May 14th, 2004, 03:56 PM

What style of blues? If a traditional style say,Slim Harpo,
Wolf,Reed,Elmore, the Pro i would love to have!
If you have ever spent time with a decent tweed
you will come to crave that tone.I am currently using
a "54" deluxe and am diggin it! I have a deluxe rev.
"65" and it is on holiday for now.A little too hi-fi for
what i want right now. Hey, it's all in the ear of the
beholder. I wish i had your problem!! The Pro is
rarer and those wide panels look way cool. Decent speaker and a Zinky Master Blaster, you be good to GO!!
Fontaine

Tremo · May 14th, 2004, 04:05 PM

I've heard those wide panel pros sound great for trad style blues. If the speaker is wrong, make it right. Put in a P15N. Those amps have decent high end if they're serviced and healthy.

Mind you the wide panel amps are cathode biased, so they will be soft and saggy, which is what you want for blues.

upplehoy · May 14th, 2004, 04:37 PM

The tweed's the one to go for...used to play old ac 30's
in the past till i had the opportunity to buy an old tremo-
lux (59) which appears to be completely original ('cept
for the tubes of course).What a tone for blues.Recently
discovered the mic channel (always used the inst ch.
until a tube blew and i had no other option than using
the mic ch. till i found a 12ax7).Haven't used the inst
ch since - Just love the sound. Also own a 66 bandmas-
ter which is now collecting dust in a corner...

Wally · May 14th, 2004, 05:17 PM

The investment aspect is a question mark unless and until the original..or a good replaccement with a correct date code...is put into th. As for the price, if all else is original and they find the correct speaker, their price is not too bad. I saw a raggedy one at the Dallas show priced at $2500. I considered that way over the top, but it made my excellent condition transition '53 Pro amp look much more valuable, right? A customer had a really rough one which he wanted me to recover. I looked at the poor thing, glued up the tweed that was pulled away, and told him it was cheaper this way for him and maintained more value in the amp. He sold it locally about a year ago for $1000. I thought that was top of the market for it at the time, but who knows.....

Kelsey · May 14th, 2004, 05:24 PM

Well, what a difference a few hours can make -- I just went back to the local shop and the tweed Pro was sold this morning. :( That's the second tweed I've missed by hours there. I will have to rethink things and be patient. I'm leaning towards tweed or brown at 35 watts or less for my needs.

BTW, I returned a '54 Gibson GA-20 that I bought there yesterday but was not happy about after further testing at home last night (weird volume issues). They took it back for a full refund without hesitation, so that bodes well for doing business with them in the future.

Wally · May 14th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Kelsey, that amp must have sounded beter than it looked....and the market must be strong for TWeeds!

Kelsey · May 14th, 2004, 05:46 PM

Wally,

Actually, I don't think it sounded as good as it should have, but I'm convinced that with the proper speaker it would have sounded real fine. But, those 15" honkers ain't cheap, and I don't know what the final situation would have been in terms of getting ahold of the original speaker. A Weber replacement would have been nice but would add $175 to the cost of ownership.

I'll keep hunting.
Thanks for the advice.

Bob

Tremo · May 14th, 2004, 06:40 PM

Mind you, the wide panel cathode biased 6L6 amps put put about 25 Watts. The narrow panel fixed bias 6L6s put out about 35 Watts, except the Bassman etc with the 5AR4 rectifiers which put out 40 or 45.

The cost of ownership of a wide panel can be more than you think UNLESS it's been fully serviced. The wide panel amps use an older style of carbon resistor which may drift WAY off value, in which case it needs replacement. I've worked on TV front and wide panel Pros that needed nearly every old style resistor replaced because they had drifted so far. Also, all those old style Astron capacitors leak pretty badly with age, most/all will need replacement. Now once you get all the leaky and drifted parts replaced, those things become dead reliable and sound great. So, the question you need to ask when looking at buying a wide panel, is if it's been serviced, and to what degree. If it's never been serviced, and you want to be able to rely on it, you will need to spend a fair chunk more to get it back to spec. Such is life with a 50 year old amp. This is not to poo-poo them, I love them, just be aware that they're so old that they will need serious maintenance before they're back up to 100%. But once you get them back to 100% performance, they'll be good to go for many years to come. And did I say they sound great?

You'd be surprised at how loud and punchy a 25 Watt healthy wide panel Pro is with it's P15N Jensen.

May 14th, 2004, 01:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kelsey Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 716	tweed pro or transitional tremolux for blues/r'n'r? I am scouting around for a nice vintage amp to add to my collection, which currently includes a SF Princeton (nonreverb), a '67 Ampeg Reverberocket 2, and a '59-'61 Gibson GA-5 Skylark. A local shop has a '53-'54 wide panel tweed Pro and a '63-'64 blonde Tremolux that are around $1200 each, give or take $100. The Pro is a wide panel tweed in good condition with some tweed missing at the corners and a replacement 15" Jensen Concert speaker (they may be able to locate the original speaker to include in the deal). It has a pretty bass heavy tone with very little treble response (the replacement speaker might be from a Leslie cab). Other than the speaker, it appears to be all original, and it's pretty quiet at idle. The Tremolux needs a replacement power cord but is otherwise in excellent and original condition, both head and 2 x 10" cab. It is a transitional blonde with a blackface circuit. I haven't heard it yet, as it is in for repair of the power cord now. My question is, which of these amps is likely to be the best choice in terms of (1) tone for blues-based music, (2) use in home, studio, and small gig settings, and (3) long-term investment prospects? Of course, I don't have to buy either of them, so a general "just say no" response is welcome, too. Your opinions are appreciated.

May 14th, 2004, 03:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
fontaine Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 338	Question Is!!! What style of blues? If a traditional style say,Slim Harpo, Wolf,Reed,Elmore, the Pro i would love to have! If you have ever spent time with a decent tweed you will come to crave that tone.I am currently using a "54" deluxe and am diggin it! I have a deluxe rev. "65" and it is on holiday for now.A little too hi-fi for what i want right now. Hey, it's all in the ear of the beholder. I wish i had your problem!! The Pro is rarer and those wide panels look way cool. Decent speaker and a Zinky Master Blaster, you be good to GO!! Fontaine

May 14th, 2004, 04:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
upplehoy Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: brugge belgium Posts: 117 5 Photos	Go for the tweed The tweed's the one to go for...used to play old ac 30's in the past till i had the opportunity to buy an old tremo- lux (59) which appears to be completely original ('cept for the tubes of course).What a tone for blues.Recently discovered the mic channel (always used the inst ch. until a tube blew and i had no other option than using the mic ch. till i found a 12ax7).Haven't used the inst ch since - Just love the sound. Also own a 66 bandmas- ter which is now collecting dust in a corner... __________________ I was tryin' to figure out which is worse,ignorance or apathy...Then I realized I don't known and I don't care...

May 14th, 2004, 05:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	Pro! The investment aspect is a question mark unless and until the original..or a good replaccement with a correct date code...is put into th. As for the price, if all else is original and they find the correct speaker, their price is not too bad. I saw a raggedy one at the Dallas show priced at $2500. I considered that way over the top, but it made my excellent condition transition '53 Pro amp look much more valuable, right? A customer had a really rough one which he wanted me to recover. I looked at the poor thing, glued up the tweed that was pulled away, and told him it was cheaper this way for him and maintained more value in the amp. He sold it locally about a year ago for $1000. I thought that was top of the market for it at the time, but who knows.....

May 14th, 2004, 05:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kelsey Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 716	No cigar... Well, what a difference a few hours can make -- I just went back to the local shop and the tweed Pro was sold this morning. :( That's the second tweed I've missed by hours there. I will have to rethink things and be patient. I'm leaning towards tweed or brown at 35 watts or less for my needs. BTW, I returned a '54 Gibson GA-20 that I bought there yesterday but was not happy about after further testing at home last night (weird volume issues). They took it back for a full refund without hesitation, so that bodes well for doing business with them in the future.

May 14th, 2004, 04:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	I've heard those wide panel pros sound great for trad style blues. If the speaker is wrong, make it right. Put in a P15N. Those amps have decent high end if they're serviced and healthy. Mind you the wide panel amps are cathode biased, so they will be soft and saggy, which is what you want for blues.

May 14th, 2004, 05:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	Kelsey, that amp must have sounded beter than it looked....and the market must be strong for TWeeds!

May 14th, 2004, 05:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
Kelsey Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 716	Wally, Actually, I don't think it sounded as good as it should have, but I'm convinced that with the proper speaker it would have sounded real fine. But, those 15" honkers ain't cheap, and I don't know what the final situation would have been in terms of getting ahold of the original speaker. A Weber replacement would have been nice but would add $175 to the cost of ownership. I'll keep hunting. Thanks for the advice. Bob

May 14th, 2004, 06:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	Mind you, the wide panel cathode biased 6L6 amps put put about 25 Watts. The narrow panel fixed bias 6L6s put out about 35 Watts, except the Bassman etc with the 5AR4 rectifiers which put out 40 or 45. The cost of ownership of a wide panel can be more than you think UNLESS it's been fully serviced. The wide panel amps use an older style of carbon resistor which may drift WAY off value, in which case it needs replacement. I've worked on TV front and wide panel Pros that needed nearly every old style resistor replaced because they had drifted so far. Also, all those old style Astron capacitors leak pretty badly with age, most/all will need replacement. Now once you get all the leaky and drifted parts replaced, those things become dead reliable and sound great. So, the question you need to ask when looking at buying a wide panel, is if it's been serviced, and to what degree. If it's never been serviced, and you want to be able to rely on it, you will need to spend a fair chunk more to get it back to spec. Such is life with a 50 year old amp. This is not to poo-poo them, I love them, just be aware that they're so old that they will need serious maintenance before they're back up to 100%. But once you get them back to 100% performance, they'll be good to go for many years to come. And did I say they sound great? You'd be surprised at how loud and punchy a 25 Watt healthy wide panel Pro is with it's P15N Jensen.