Boutique Solid State

[markesquire]

I started out on a cheap solid state modeling amp, then upgraded to objectively better-sounding tube amps.

I've seen a few boutique, high-quality solid state amps online lately and wondered if they're in a different league. Are Evans, Polytone, etc really that much better than the cheaper models that I abandoned for tube models?

If so, how do they differ? The real thing I'd like is a lightweight 1x10 combo that's as loud as a twin, has the warmth and response of a tube amp, spring reverb (not digital), and is dead quiet.

[jh45gun]

Get a 80 to a 100 watt Peavey Bandit though it will not be as loud as a Twin it has a decent reverb and sounds great. It will be a heck of a lot cheaper then your so called boootick SS amp and sound just as good.

[rangercaster]

the boutique stuff is probably built of higher quality electronic components and maybe better cabinetry ... as for design, your guess is as good as mine ...

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by markesquire

The real thing I'd like is a lightweight 1x10 combo that's as loud as a twin, has the warmth and response of a tube amp, spring reverb (not digital), and is dead quiet.

Lightweight, tonefully loud, cheap: pick any two.

[telechaser]

I'll be interested in finding a boutique SS amp too and don't mind paying more. I don't really care if an amp is tube or not.

[BB]

For botique solid state, Pritchard is probably at the forefront. Not cheap, but from all I've heard from players, ( have NOT heard one myself ) they are amazing.
http://www.pritchardamps.com/a_journey.cfm

I have used a Roland Blues Cube amp for the past 12-13 years. One of the best SS amps I've used.

[markesquire]

Originally Posted by tiktok

Lightweight, tonefully loud, cheap: pick any two.

I want to pick lightweight and TONEFUL.

My question is whether any companies are actually pulling off the toneful part.

[Hackguitarist]

Originally Posted by markesquire

I want to pick lightweight and TONEFUL.

My question is whether any companies are actually pulling off the toneful part.

Pritchard is IMO.

[Jakedog]

I have not heard a pritchard amp, but I have heard LOADS of positive things about them. I have heard an Evans amp, played through one last night. Not mine, but a good friends. I love it. It's amazing. Period. I am a SS guy anyway as of Feb. '09. After 20 years of gigging tube amps, and poo-pooing SS every chance I got, I was finally forced to admit that there are a helluva lot of great sounding SS amps out there. And they are lighter, in many cases cheaper to buy, and much cheaper to own.

I find when most people talk about SS amps not having "tone", they are not really talking about tone. Almost everybody I talk to who says SS amps have no tone, wants an SS amp to break up like a Tweed Deluxe or an 18 watt Marshall when they crank it. SS amps don't do that, they are completely different animals. Once I started playing them like SS amps, instead of trying to play them like tube amps, I found them extremely dynamic, responsive, and toneful. If you are looking for something with loads of headroom without breakup, plus fat, thumpy tight low end, sparkling glassy highs, and smooth mids, a good quality SS amp may be just your ticket. If you want the aforementioned low watt tube amp "tone", then you are better off with one of those amps.

Oh, and after last night, I totally want an Evans.

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by markesquire

I want to pick lightweight and TONEFUL.

My question is whether any companies are actually pulling off the toneful part.

Check out Pritchard. They run $2k+.

[jh45gun]

Again it is also the player I have heard guys that can make even a cheap amp sound good Tube or SS. I have also heard the guys make a great amp sound like crap. I could never see paying 2000 bucks for an amp knowing that other cheaper amps would probably sound as good and to be honest if the amp sounds fine your listening audience is never gonna know the difference. Only difference I can see is pride of owning something expensive.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by jh45gun

I could never see paying 2000 bucks for an amp knowing that other cheaper amps would probably sound as good and to be honest if the amp sounds fine your listening audience is never gonna know the difference. Only difference I can see is pride of owning something expensive.

It's a feel thing. The better you feel the better you play. Anyone out there who plays better tired, depressed or hung over? Sound off!

I build my own but every so often I plug into an amp I'd buy just to take home and see what's inside it. Many of them cost over $2k, some of them way over.

[markesquire]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

I have heard an Evans amp, played through one last night. Not mine, but a good friends. I love it. It's amazing. Period. I am a SS guy anyway as of Feb. '09. After 20 years of gigging tube amps, and poo-pooing SS every chance I got, I was finally forced to admit that there are a helluva lot of great sounding SS amps out there. And they are lighter, in many cases cheaper to buy, and much cheaper to own.

Tell me what changes occur when you move up the SS ladder.

What makes Evans different from the crappy beginner modeling models? I just got back from a music store, comparing tube and SS. Again, the tube amps absolutely obliterated the SS, but that might have been just because all of the SS were cheap and low-quality.

[jh45gun]

I get good sounds out of my Peavey I cannot tell you anymore then that. For what it is, they are great amps and like I said that audience would never know the difference.

[Tele-phone man]

I just got back in from another wedding gig using my Peavey Bandit 75. It never breaks and it sounds great, with loads of headroom and a beautiful clean sound. I get my dirt from pedals. Absolutely nobody gives me grief that I use a cheap SS amp. The audience doesn't care, and the other musicians I play with don't care. They only care that I sound good and that I play my parts correctly. It's only us, the guitar players, who care if we are using a tube amp or not. By the way, it cost me $140 shipped on eBay last year. It payed for itself on the first gig, and I've played dozens on gigs on it since.

Hell, even the guys in my blues band don't give a s**t about what amp I use. They only care that I play well and that I get a good sound, which I do.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by Tele-phone man

I just got back in from another wedding gig using my Peavey Bandit 75. It never breaks and it sounds great, with loads of headroom and a beautiful clean sound. I get my dirt from pedals. Absolutely nobody gives me grief that I use a cheap SS amp. The audience doesn't care, and the other musicians I play with don't care. They only care that I sound good and that I play my parts correctly. It's only us, the guitar players, who care if we are using a tube amp or not. By the way, it cost me $140 shipped on eBay last year. It payed for itself on the first gig, and I've played dozens on gigs on it since.

Hell, even the guys in my blues band don't give a s**t about what amp I use. They only care that I play well and that I get a good sound, which I do.

Exactly!

[muchxs]

I love that "they don't care" cop-out.

I took in a band the other day that I'd describe as "incidental music". I happened to be at a venue and there happened to be a band playing. They did a lounge lizard ZZ Top medley while I was there. It might as well have been karaoke or accompanied by a cheap keyboard and a drum machine. The tone was wrong, the timing was wrong and overall the feel was totally wrong. But hey, the "audience didn't care".

It's our job to play it like we mean it whether "they" care or not.

[Tim Armstrong]

I don't think the "they don't care" comment was in reference to tone or commitment, but rather that audiences don't care what gear you use as long as DOES sound good!

Tim

[Hackguitarist]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I don't think the "they don't care" comment was in reference to tone or commitment, but rather that audiences don't care what gear you use as long as DOES sound good!

Tim

I thought that as well, but if I thought what 'muchxs' seemed to have, I might feel as he did too. ;O

[chubbsdarcy]

Lets consider the tools of the trade....for another trade...for just a moment...without intending to name drop or bad mouth any particular brand...Okay, give a high quality Dewalt or Makita hand tool to a young inexperienced carpenters apprentice who just so happens to have a hangover that day perhaps and he or she gives less than a crap about the house he or she is building, and at the same time give an inexpensive Trademaster or King Canada tool to an experienced journeyman carpenter who takes a lot of pride in his or her work, who do you think will get the best results? It isnt necessarily the reputation of the brand name of a tool or how much you pay for it, its what you do with that tool that matters! And I refer to guitars and amplifiers, etc. as tools as well because they certainly are tools of the trade for a musician...and the same discussion of the *they dont know* or *they dont care* attitude can apply to carpentry as well...a family probably wont know or care if a door was planed by hand or with an electric one either, just as long as the door opens and shuts as it ought to...as long as it gets the job done, and it gets the job done well....

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I don't think the "they don't care" comment was in reference to tone or commitment, but rather that audiences don't care what gear you use as long as DOES sound good!

Tim

Yes Tim that is what I was getting at.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by chubbsdarcy

the same discussion of the *they dont know* or *they dont care* attitude can apply to carpentry as well...a family probably wont know or care if a door was planed by hand or with an electric one either, just as long as the door opens and shuts as it ought to...as long as it gets the job done, and it gets the job done well....

Funny you bring up the carpentry analogy.

Look at stuff that was built 100-150 years ago and compare it to what's built today. Sure, there's the whole cost discussion. It would cost a bundle to build an authentic Victorian with authentic materials. I've seen a lot of authentic Victorian detail obliterated and destroyed, artisan finishes over original plaster torn out and sheetrocked, vinyl over intricate original linoleum in the kitchen, carpet over parquet in the living room. Etc..

"Good enough" rather than "as good as it gets". Believe me, I get it. Tubes v. solid state and it's "good enough".

[BB]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

I find when most people talk about SS amps not having "tone", they are not really talking about tone. Almost everybody I talk to who says SS amps have no tone, wants an SS amp to break up like a Tweed Deluxe or an 18 watt Marshall when they crank it. SS amps don't do that, they are completely different animals. Once I started playing them like SS amps, instead of trying to play them like tube amps, I found them extremely dynamic, responsive, and toneful. If you are looking for something with loads of headroom without breakup, plus fat, thumpy tight low end, sparkling glassy highs, and smooth mids, a good quality SS amp may be just your ticket. If you want the aforementioned low watt tube amp "tone", then you are better off with one of those amps.

You hit the nail on the head Jake.

[68reissue]

I'm right there with Jake and BB...in fact, "loads of headroom without breakup, plus fat, thumpy tight low end, sparkling glassy highs, and smooth mids" is a perfect description of the tone I've always wanted. Right now, I play through a Roland JC-55, a 3rd generation Peavey Envoy, and an old Peavey Backstage Plus with a Ragin' Cajun installed. Between those three amps, none of which will cost you much, I get amazing clean tones. Heck, I got the Backstage for $40!

I've owned plenty of tube amps, and I'm really happier with my tone now. Before I ever picked up an electric guitar, it was George Benson and Wes Montgomery who really turned my head, and they both played through the mighty transistor. And--much closer to my style--Roger McGuinn played Roland JCs for years.

BUT...if you are looking for that sweet, grainy, saggy compressed thing, you really should play tubes. Horses for courses.

[Reverend_Cheese]

Back to the original question:

-Pearce
-Tech 21
-Trace Elliot
-Gibson\Lab L-5 (Holdsworth used to use them for his clean sound, Ty Tabor for Dirty. But these amps weigh a ton)
-Roland Blues Cube (a GREAT sounding amp)

[BB]

Originally Posted by Reverend_Cheese

Back to the original question:

-Pearce
-Tech 21
-Trace Elliot
-Gibson\Lab L-5 (Holdsworth used to use them for his clean sound, Ty Tabor for Dirty. But these amps weigh a ton)
-Roland Blues Cube (a GREAT sounding amp)

For light weight, the Tech 21 TM60 gets my vote. A great sounding, versitile amp. I love and use a Blues Cube 60, but at 45 lbs, it's pretty heavy for my old, tired back! Only used Trace Elliot tube amps......but if their SS amps sound anything like their tubers, they would be a winner. Love the Lab Series, but again....as heavy as any tube amp out there.

[markesquire]

The "good enough" vs. "as good as it gets" distinction is what I'm looking for.

I know that there are SS amps that sound "good enough," but will the best boutique SS amps achieve the tone inherent in the best boutique tube amps?

In other words, what happens when the SS gang and the tube gang both bring their biggest/best to the fight?

[openbar]

Originally Posted by markesquire

In other words, what happens when the SS gang and the tube gang both bring their biggest/best to the fight?

There'll be some "tube guys" chomping at the bit to tell you HOW WRONG you are. They've swallowed the tube manifesto hook, line, and sinker, and favorable solid state talk just makes them apoplectic.

[Ricky D.]

I've heard some great sounds coming from a Line 6 Flextone.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by markesquire

The "good enough" vs. "as good as it gets" distinction is what I'm looking for.

I know that there are SS amps that sound "good enough," but will the best boutique SS amps achieve the tone inherent in the best boutique tube amps?

In other words, what happens when the SS gang and the tube gang both bring their biggest/best to the fight?

They pretty much explained that already a SS amp is not going to sound like a good tube amp but it does have its own characteristics that make it desirable. Like I said the average person listening to a band cannot tell nor do they care as long as the music sounds good heck many musicians cannot tell either. I heard a guy playing a Fender SS amp once and it was the size of a Deluxe Reverb so I guessed it was a tube amp it sounded good but it was a Fender Stage 100 watt amp. I would suspect that you put an amp behind a curtain most folks would not be able to identify it no matter what the brand. They may get lucky and guess but I suspect they could not tell for sure.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by markesquire

The "good enough" vs. "as good as it gets" distinction is what I'm looking for.

I know that there are SS amps that sound "good enough," but will the best boutique SS amps achieve the tone inherent in the best boutique tube amps?

In other words, what happens when the SS gang and the tube gang both bring their biggest/best to the fight?

If that happens, you are gonna have half the players in the room pick the tube amp, and half pick the SS. I really think you need to stick with tube amps Mark. Based on what you're saying, and your assertion that tube amps always sound "superior" to you, I think you'll just frustrate yourself trying out SS amps. Nothing wrong with preferring tubes, but as has been said, an SS amp, no matter how expensive, is still not gonna be a tube amp, or get those exact kinds of tones. Personally, I am thankful for that, as I really don't want those tones. They don't work nearly as well for me. Conversely, a good tube amp, no matter how much you spend on it, is never going to get the sounds my SS amps get. They simply are not capable of achieving those tones. At least not to my knowledge. If I could find a tube amp with the same clean tones I get out of my SS amps, I'd probably buy it. But so far, in twenty years of playing all kinds of tube amps, no cigar. They are lacking IMO. SS amps have a punchy, poppy, attack that can't be beat. Because there is no sag, and no breakup. You can get ridiculous low end out of them with no fart or flop, and you can play them as loud as you'd ever need to (provided you have enough wattage) with no breakup. They are also extremely dynamic and responsive to pick attack and playing dynamics, but only from a volume perspective, which I love. I hate getting a good clean sound, then digging in and hitting the guitar hard, only to hear overdrive. Not good. My SS amps can give me huge control over my volume, from whisper quiet to breaking windows, with no change in the overall tone, just by using playing dynamics. That is a huge asset to me, that a tube amp can't do. They always start breaking up and compressing. I don't like that.

Different strokes for different folks. But if you are on a quest to find an SS amp that sounds exactly like, or superior to, a tube amp, you're on the wrong path my friend. Celebrate the differences, and play what you like. Nobody ever achieved anything by trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

[woody961]

For all....I have currently a Yamaha g100-II combo amp---very much the size and power of a twin....AMAZING, AMAZING tone! Better than my 70's silver face twin with JBL's......believe me. They made them for about 4-5 years I think and came in 1x12, 2x10, 2x12, and 1x15 speaker combinations.......also, came in a G50 amp section---just a bit less power...

I have a G100-II that has the better tone stack that encompasses a Parametric EQ section.......it is absolutely amazing and they are out there all day for $200!!

[davidge1]

I've owned two solid state amps, both of which were as good as any other amp I've ever owned. One was a '60s Sho-Bud amp, made for pedal steel (sounded just as good with guitar). The other was a Barcus-Berry amp (probably made to amplify acoustic guitars, but also sounded great with electric guitar plugged into it). Both had 15" speakers. Pedal steel players have almost always used nothing but solid state amps (they require a completely clean tone), and obviously they sound great.

A solid state amp will NOT give you a scooped Fender sound. When people say SS amps have no tone, this is one of the reasons. They're used to that sound. Also, as someone already mentioned, they obviously don't break up (at very loud volumes, the speaker will start to break up a little). The solid state amps I've had will give you a very nice punchy, full sound with very tight bass.

[Ringo]

I've had a couple of the 1-12 50 watt Yamaha G series amps, the ones with the parametric eq are killer, great warm clean tones, not a sterile Jazz Chorus solid state tone.
Also have owned and played the Peavey Bandit and Special amps, which also have a good clean tone.
Currently my main amp is a clone of the Dr Z28 but I do have a Carvin SX which has some great clean tones.
There are a lot of options, as several have mentioned, I think it is more about "feel" than tone a lot of the time. Tube amps just seem to respond differently , but there are plenty of good sounding solid state amps.

[markesquire]

Originally Posted by davidge1

A solid state amp will NOT give you a scooped Fender sound. When people say SS amps have no tone, this is one of the reasons. They're used to that sound.

The solid state amps I've had will give you a very nice punchy, full sound with very tight bass.

Is there any way to impose that scooped Fender EQ onto a SS amp.

Basically, I would love for the headroom, silent operation, and I've ALWAYS sought a bigger tighter bass response. It sounds like a good SS amp could be the ticket if it was the right "flavor." Unfortunately though, the only thing that came close are some cheap SS amps that "model" a fender sound . . . and missed horribly.

[Tele-phone man]

Originally Posted by woody961

For all....I have currently a Yamaha g100-II combo amp---very much the size and power of a twin....AMAZING, AMAZING tone! Better than my 70's silver face twin with JBL's......believe me. They made them for about 4-5 years I think and came in 1x12, 2x10, 2x12, and 1x15 speaker combinations.......also, came in a G50 amp section---just a bit less power...

I have a G100-II that has the better tone stack that encompasses a Parametric EQ section.......it is absolutely amazing and they are out there all day for $200!!

The G100II amps were some of the best sounding, most reliable amps I've ever had the pleasure of using. I wish I still had my G100 212II. The only thing I would be concerned with today of an amp of that vintage would be the condition of the filter capacitors. They all eventually dry out, and this amp uses a very large cap to couple the output transistors to the speaker (in addition to the others in the power supply). It could cost nearly as much to re-cap this amp as it would be to buy it in the first place, if you have it done by a pro. However, I still think it would be worth it. Just amazing amps.

[Tele-phone man]

By the way, thanks to Tim Armstrong, Hackguitarist, and chubbsdarcy for correctly interpreting my meaning. I certainly am NOT advocating mediocrity for either tone or musicianship. I'm only saying that once excellent tone has been achieved, only we guitar players have any interest in exactly what gear was used to create it. This interest usually results from a desire to reproduce the best tones that we hear from other guitarists. Keyboardists don't care how you got that great lead tone, because they have no ambition to copy it. They only care that you sound good and make the band sound better.

By the way, Pritchard Amps have to be heard to be believed. I played one at a guitar show, with Mr. Pritchard explaining the features, and I could not have been more impressed. Just superb amps, and very light-weight for their size. You will pay a bunch for one, but they are the only really boutique SS amp I know of that cater to rock and variety players. The Evans amps are really for jazz players, but could probably be used for variety situations with the right effects. The Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight has received rave reviews, as well.

[jh45gun]

My SS amps can give me huge control over my volume, from whisper quiet to breaking windows, with no change in the overall tone, just by using playing dynamics. That is a huge asset to me, that a tube amp can't do. They always start breaking up and compressing. I don't like that.

then your not using a big enough amp. I gigged with a Super Reverb for years and used the volume knob something folks have seem to forget these days. My tone was always clear as a bell and never broke up. I can get the same thing out of my PA 100 as I am sure folks can with Twins so do not say that ALL tube amps do that they do not which is why LEO went the direction he did from the tweeds to his black face amps he wanted cleans.

[1960 tele]

best 218. dollars ive ever spent.over 6 years of gigs country and classic rock.petty, ac dc, jimi, stones, stp, animals, hank, buck/ringo.i love this alarm clock size solid state 150 watt mono 75 watt a side stereo amp. any cab you plug into sounds great. good luck on your quest.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by 1960 tele

best 218. dollars ive ever spent.over 6 years of gigs country and classic rock.petty, ac dc, jimi, stones, stp, animals, hank, buck/ringo.i love this alarm clock size solid state 150 watt mono 75 watt a side stereo amp. any cab you plug into sounds great. good luck on your quest.

If they are so great why were they discontinued???? Most crate stuff I have seen is not that dependable. Oh sure they make some good things but I think they are like Behringer some good stuff some bad. Maybe some of their higher end stuff is good I don't know but I have seen a lot of their lower end stuff being not very dependable.