Champ into an outboard cab???

[trag-o-caster]

OK, as some of you know, from my post below, that I've just gotten a SF Champ, and I'd like to use it onstage, miked up. What I have to use for a cab is an old Peavey Classic 410E cab at 16 ohms. If I disconnected two of the speakers in that cab, would that give me a 4 ohm load??? Or even 8???

Also, if I leave the Champs speaker engaged, and just tap off of the speakers extra speaker terminals to the cabinet, would the Champ then want to see an 8 ohm load?

I've heard many things about running Champs into cabs, but I've never heard much mention of the impedance issues.

[jonny_frethead]

Originally Posted by trag-o-caster

OK, as some of you know, from my post below, that I've just gotten a SF Champ, and I'd like to use it onstage, miked up. What I have to use for a cab is an old Peavey Classic 410E cab at 16 ohms. If I disconnected two of the speakers in that cab, would that give me a 4 ohm load??? Or even 8???

--if you disconnect two speakers in a cab they will rattle like hell. You need to rewire them to be 4 ohms. Assuming that they are 16 ohm speakers you would parallel the speakers in pairs (2 sets of 2 which now measure 8ohm) and then parallel them together for 4ohms.


Also, if I leave the Champs speaker engaged, and just tap off of the speakers extra speaker terminals to the cabinet, would the Champ then want to see an 8 ohm load?

--existing speaker is 8 so adding another eight in parallel makes 4 ....good


I've heard many things about running Champs into cabs, but I've never heard much mention of the impedance issues.

[David Rolling]

...of my youth. Two of my buddies were so heavy into Cream that they'd recreate those 20 minute jams note for note off the records. Up here no one had ever even seen a distortion pedal, let alone used one, so the guitar player copped Clapton's live tone by running the guts of a Champ straight into a Twin Reverb. He blew up so many Champs that way, but his tone was glorious.

Thanks for making me remember, Trag.

[trag-o-caster]

Running Champs into Twins? I've done silly stuff like that (and tempted to try it again!).

When I was 12 or 13 I had a big ol' nasty SS Gibson 2x12 combo that sounded best when tumbling down the basement stairs. I also had my old, early 60's Epiphone Galaxie tube amp that I had gotten when I was 10. The SS Gibson was supposed to be an upgrade - Anyhoo, one day I clipped the plug off of a guitar cord, took the two bare wires and attached them to the extra speaker terminals on the Galaxie's 12" speaker. The other end of the cord (with the plug still on it) was plugged into the input of the SS Gibson. WOW! It didn't sound particularly musical, but it did sound much like a monster truck rolling through the living room! My mom ran out the door, jumped in the car and headed for the mall!

Another time that I tried this, I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember three things:

My dad was home -

I created a HUGE shower of purple sparks that flew out the back of one amp all over the living room carpet!

My dad was not amused!

Fast forward to just several years ago, I read an article by Gerald Weber regarding making a clip on line out device that clips onto a small tube amps speaker terminals (there's resistors involved there, otherwise somethings going to blow). From there, you can send the signal into a larger guitar amp. I used to do this with a Peavey Classic 20 into a Peavey Classic 50. Sounded great!

[Tim Armstrong]

I gigged with my "Champ Stack", a nice SF Champ running into a 4 ohm 2x12 cab. It kicked serious rumpus! It was really a heck of a lot louder than using the 8" speaker.

What are the individual Peavey speakers at, ohmwise? If they're 4 ohms apiece in series to make 16 ohms, you could rewire them to be 2 sets of 2 speakers in series, which would give you each set at 8 ohms, then run the sets in parallel, which would bring it back down to 4 ohms.

Here's a chart, courtesy of WeberVST:



The chart is easier to read at: http://www.webervst.com/sptalk.html

I'd bypass the 8 incher entirely!

Cheers, Tim

[Rob DiStefano]

My best amp *ever* is my li'l '66 Champ w/Weber P8Q ... the tone is just amazing when I plug in a Strat or Tele. There is *NO* way in heck I'd ever wanna retro to an outboard cab - that'd most likely kill the sonic beauty rather than enhance. There's a reason God gave us PA systems and SM57 mic's .... YMMV.

[Tim Armstrong]

Absolutely, the Champ in its small glory is, well, glorious.

But the Champ, through a great cab, is a whole other thing, and that's a glorious thing too.

Cheers, Tim

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Absolutely, the Champ in its small glory is, well, glorious.

But the Champ, through a great cab, is a whole other thing, and that's a glorious thing too.

Cheers, Tim

Been there, done that - various vintage Champs through 2x12's and 4x12's - it's a big sound but there's always something missing, and mic'ing the Champ's 8" brings it all back home. At least to my old ears. :) YMMV.

[stevedenver]

you know ive been doing cbaniet mixing lots lately with my tweeed deluxe and an extraorinary PTP marshal 18 w clone rebuild of my pro jr by tom seward (tweeddeluxe) -

im not spamming here -just sharing some stuff-
after disconneting the combo speaker used my fender 4 ohm 2x12 clsoed back with utahs big sound-lots o bass

then went to avatarspeakers.com and got the 2x12 special cab one celestion vintage 30 one celestion g12 30 H (you can get either, or both or either type-i mis matched for the bottom and the top and mid qualities of each) 8 ohms-$278 plus 34 shipping-worth twice the price IMHO

wow-

so to answer your question -the avatar cab will match your amp and wont ruin it-and will give you incredible sound-moves lots of air and the celestions sound great

[trag-o-caster]

How do y'all feel about using a 10" speaker in the Champ cab? Mine has already been customized for that, but I've read pro's and con's about doing this to a Champ. Should I entertain the idea of going back to an 8" speaker? I REALLY want to use this thing on the bandstand.

Also, it may not be safe for me to just assume that the amp is still 4 ohms. This amp has definately been gone through. I don't know to what extent though. Since I don't have a volt-ohm meter, I probably won't know about the impedance without taking it in to a tech. I can't really tell by looking at it if the transformer has been changed.

So, running it with an impedance mismatch is a big no-no huh? I've always heard that old tube amps - Fenders in particular - were solid enough to run with a mismatch. Yet, I keep reading all over the internet NOT to do that with a Champ.

So, maybe I should just let it sit until I can get someone more knowledgable to look at it? What a drag! I just fired her up here in the kitchen, and it sounds GREAT! Maybe a little farty on the low end, and I'm hearing some rattles.

So, what to do? Find a 10" 4 ohm speaker for it? Go back to an 8" speaker? Keep it as is, play it and hope for the best?

Any good sites that deal with Champs that y'all know about?

I appreciate everyone's input!

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by trag-o-caster

How do y'all feel about using a 10" speaker in the Champ cab? ...snip!...

Did it twice - all I can say is it was obvious I didn't learn my lesson the first time. Didn't do a thing for me. I still say the best Class A amp available is a healthy old Champ with good tubes and a Weber 4 ohm P8Q. YMMV.

My last Champ 10" conversion w/Weber 10" Signature ...

[AC4RD]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

My best amp *ever* is my li'l '66 Champ w/Weber P8Q ... the tone is just amazing when I plug in a Strat or Tele.

I just mentioned this on another forum yesterday but it is probably worth repeating: I bought a very ugly old Champ a couple of years ago; its original 8" 4-ohm speaker was badly blown. I decided to put in a 10" replacement for a bit of extra bass, and had trouble finding a 4-ohm 10" speaker, until a friend told me to check Weber's website. Mr. Weber (may peace be upon his forehead and blessings attend him!) was extremely helpful in reply to my emailed dumb questions, and the 10" went in the Champ with only a bit of chisel-based modification to the cabinet. And the Weber VST speaker sounds GREAT. Next time I need a speaker, Weber is definitely my first choice! --Ken in NC

[AC4RD]

Originally Posted by trag-o-caster

How do y'all feel about using a 10" speaker in the Champ cab?

Whoops--I didn't see this post when I sent my earlier msg on this thread. I put a Weber VST 10" 4-ohm in the little Champ I bought a couple of years ago; also replaced all the tubes just for luck. I've never heard my own Champ with an 8" speaker--it was blown when I bought the amp. I flat-out absolutely 100% LOVE the sound of the Champ with the 10" Weber VST, as I said--but I'm definitely no expert and I've never even heard it with the 8" so YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY OFFER VOID WHERE PROHIBITED NOT ALL PARTICIPANTS WILL HAVE THIS WEIGHT LOSS :-)
--Ken in NC

[Tim Armstrong]

...(if you mean 8 ohms instead of 4) it's more like it won't put out much volume and it may not sound as good. Champs work best with a 4 ohm speaker load.

Wire up that 4x10 as suggested above, and give it a whirl!

Cheers, Tim

[Tom P.]

If I have a Pro Jr or Princeton that requires an 8 ohm load, I can use 2 -16 ohm speakers in parallel, or 2- 4 ohm speaker in series? Any configuration that lets me use 2 - 8 ohm speakers without amp damage or loss of performance?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Tom P.

If I have a Pro Jr or Princeton that requires an 8 ohm load, I can use 2 -16 ohm speakers in parallel, or 2- 4 ohm speaker in series? Any configuration that lets me use 2 - 8 ohm speakers without amp damage or loss of performance?

A pair of 8 ohm speakers will only yield either 4 ohms parallel, or 16 ohms series. I'd think you could run the series link for 16 ohms and the volume would suffer a tad. Going to less than the amps rated output ohms is usually tantamount to damaging the amp.

[trag-o-caster]

.... sorry guys, I couldn't hold out any longer. After reading somewhere that you can just pop in a 6L6, and it'll will become an 8 ohm amp (whether they're right or wrong - I didn't care), and also noticing that the mystery 10" speaker is indeed an 8 ohm Eminence, I did just that. The 6L6 just barely fit in there next to the speaker magnet. I probably have just enough clearance to stick a business card between 'em. The results??? WOW! Maybe I'm missing the 6V6/8" speaker vibe, but WOW anyway!

It's louder. It's a little less raspy - smoother sustain without becoming more distorted. It may be slightly LESS distorted. My four year old son was not as impressed as he ran for the other room, holding his ears!

I'm a-gonna take this thing out to the gig Tuesday night and give 'er a whirl! I'll probably still have to mic it, but I shouldn't have to put too much of it into the PA.