Little amp?!

Adam Waldron · April 26th, 2004, 10:50 PM

Hey folks,

I need a little amp it would seem!

I use a Bassman at gigs, a Classic 30 for rehearsals, jam nights and small rooms. I'm a 'straight-in' guy, no boxes on the floor. I get these amps turned up to 5-6 and beyond to get tone. Thats loud.

Certainly too loud for home jamming with friends or the stereo, a bit hard to use in home studios, acoustic accompaniment etc....

One would think a Classic 30 is great for this sort of thing, but its too powerful. The tone of the amp on 3 doesn't do much for me......

So, that gives an idea of the sound I like to hear....

What do you suggest for something small, hopefully cheap and cheerful that I can use in these low volume situations and give me a good tone, good enough for a little recording (demos etc).

Tube, solid state, I don't mind - I just wanna good low volume tone that responds to my fingers like my other amps do...

Thanks!!

Cheers,

Adam

guitar_paul1 · April 26th, 2004, 11:33 PM

Hi Adam.
Sometimes you can find a deal on a tube Fender Champ and the silver faces are only one resistor away from sounding like the black faces. That sounds like what you are describing. They are still fairly loud but don't have a lot of power.
I also use a Boss MG80 with my acoustic guitar at gigs where I want just a little more beef so my hands don't get so sore. The old Boss solid state and the little tiny Roland 10A Spirit and 20 are also good while cheap. The tiny rolands especially have a very crispy clean sound. The boss is a little more fuzzy and hissy. But they are all fairly cheap and cool.
Good luck.
Maybe you can get lucky and find a good deal on a small Jantzen, being in NZ?

-paul

Adam Waldron · April 27th, 2004, 01:23 AM

Hey Paul

Well, I would love a Champ - still might be a little loud. I have never seen one for sale here in NZ, infact I have never seen a Silverface Champ....

Cool old stuff is hard to find here....

Jansen you say? Well, recently I saw a '60s Jansen amp, a lot like a Silverface Champ in cosmetics, vol and tone, and a single EL84 through an 8" speaker. I needed recapping and a speaker, I passed. It would have been perfect!

I really only want to spend about NZ$250 you see, thats US$165 or therabouts...

Thinking about a Kustom Tube12, though have only played one through a big cab and it sounded great with a Strat.

Have read good stuff on the Tech 21 TM10, might be a little more than I wanna spend.....

All the second hand small amps I see seem to be Peavey Rages or Blazers, little Marshalls etc.....arghhhh

Cheers,

Adam

biker joe · April 27th, 2004, 01:41 AM

I have gone through the very same dilema as you. I have done the scale down from a twin reverb to a princeton reverb, to a vibro champ, and finally to an emory sound micro baby. I still have all but the twin reverb. I am of a mind set that I think every guitar play should own a champ. I think it is a right of passage. Just plugging straight in at home does wonders. It sounds great and more importantly allows for no excusses so you end up focusing on the music and practicing more on your technique rather than getting too caught up in tone issues. However, I recently obtained a weber mini mass that I can use with all my amps. It hooks between the speaker and amp and is a sort of attenuator. As much as I am a big champ supporter, I have to admit that my princeton reverb hooked up to the mass with the volume reduced by the mass sounds much better than the champ. I would think that you could hook something like this up to your existing amps like the classic. With the weber you just unplug the speaker from the amp and put it inbetween. Just unplug and plug... no soldering or electrical experience required. Weber is a US based company but the guy is extremely responsive and I would think he would ship something your way. There are other alternatives out there too. THD makes the hot plate attenuator and I'm sure there are a few others. I bet one of these things will save you a new amp purchase. It really increases the flexability of an amp. But I still think you should get a champ anyway.....

e-merlin · April 27th, 2004, 12:06 PM

You are going to have to go really, really small. A 15 watt amp is only 3dB quieter than a 30 watt amp, all other things being equal. That's a just barely perceptable difference. A less efficient speaker would probably be a better solution. That or a Pod and some headphones.

Mickey · April 27th, 2004, 12:21 PM

I second Biker Joe on the attenuator. I use a 15W Pro jr that I can mic (or not mic) out of the house, but that's still too loud for the house. A Weber minimass on that has been the ticket. All the tone, less volume.

If your master volume and pregain are putting you where you want to be in terms of tone, but not volume, an attenuator may be an affordable option. the Weber minimass (for a 15w amp) cost around $40. Whatever Biker Joe uses for amps large and small must have cost him more, but still affordable I'd think.

Doc · April 27th, 2004, 04:39 PM

If a Champ is still too loud it seems to me you may be in the moddeling amp country. The attenuator thing may also work. However in neither case will the feel of the speaker be there if the volume drops too far.

Tremo · April 27th, 2004, 05:28 PM

The only disadvantage of the little amps is they are pretty shy on the low end. 5 Watt Champs sound great but they have no thump at all.

If a champ is too loud, sounds like you need a headphone amp.

Adam Waldron · April 28th, 2004, 07:12 PM

Yes! I think an attenuator will be just the ticket. Not super cheap by the time one takes the exchange rate into account, freight, customs entry, any tax at this end etc....I could end up back at small second-hand tube amp prices....

As we know, most amps don't sing on '3'. What I want is that sort of volume level, say my Classic 30 on '3', with the level of break-up I like at say '7'. Thats still pretty clean in my book. I am not looking for dimed amp sort of filth.....

I don't want to be whisper quiet, I just can't play in an inspired fashion when power tubes aren't working a bit. Feel, response, tone etc.

The modelling amp idea has got me thinking too.....

More research.....

Thanks folks,

Adam

WrapAround · April 29th, 2004, 11:38 AM

Try Zvex Nanohead. It gets a little buzzy when you dime it but it sounds very very good up to 2/3~1/4 of full volume.

Mickey · April 29th, 2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

If a Champ is still too loud it seems to me you may be in the moddeling amp country. The attenuator thing may also work. However in neither case will the feel of the speaker be there if the volume drops too far.

that's right. The attenuator turned down obviously doesn't give the punch of volume. But I don't know what will.

April 26th, 2004, 10:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
Adam Waldron Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 607	Little amp?! Hey folks, I need a little amp it would seem! I use a Bassman at gigs, a Classic 30 for rehearsals, jam nights and small rooms. I'm a 'straight-in' guy, no boxes on the floor. I get these amps turned up to 5-6 and beyond to get tone. Thats loud. Certainly too loud for home jamming with friends or the stereo, a bit hard to use in home studios, acoustic accompaniment etc.... One would think a Classic 30 is great for this sort of thing, but its too powerful. The tone of the amp on 3 doesn't do much for me...... So, that gives an idea of the sound I like to hear.... What do you suggest for something small, hopefully cheap and cheerful that I can use in these low volume situations and give me a good tone, good enough for a little recording (demos etc). Tube, solid state, I don't mind - I just wanna good low volume tone that responds to my fingers like my other amps do... Thanks!! Cheers, Adam

April 26th, 2004, 11:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
guitar_paul1 TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: washington state Posts: 60	small amp Hi Adam. Sometimes you can find a deal on a tube Fender Champ and the silver faces are only one resistor away from sounding like the black faces. That sounds like what you are describing. They are still fairly loud but don't have a lot of power. I also use a Boss MG80 with my acoustic guitar at gigs where I want just a little more beef so my hands don't get so sore. The old Boss solid state and the little tiny Roland 10A Spirit and 20 are also good while cheap. The tiny rolands especially have a very crispy clean sound. The boss is a little more fuzzy and hissy. But they are all fairly cheap and cool. Good luck. Maybe you can get lucky and find a good deal on a small Jantzen, being in NZ? -paul

April 27th, 2004, 04:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Doc Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Dakota Posts: 981	If a Champ is still too loud it seems to me you may be in the moddeling amp country. The attenuator thing may also work. However in neither case will the feel of the speaker be there if the volume drops too far. __________________ Guitars: Teles, LP, others. Amps: El Diablo, Richter 5E3, 5E3 Head, Traynor Bass Master II, Epi Jr Head, Gretsch/Supro, 60's Univox and others. Current Board-Guitar>Tuner>Java Boost> Huckleberry>Fuzz Head>Top Fuel>SFX-03> Keeley Comp>Clone Chorus>FL3> Amp

April 27th, 2004, 01:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
Adam Waldron Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 607	Hey Paul Well, I would love a Champ - still might be a little loud. I have never seen one for sale here in NZ, infact I have never seen a Silverface Champ.... Cool old stuff is hard to find here.... Jansen you say? Well, recently I saw a '60s Jansen amp, a lot like a Silverface Champ in cosmetics, vol and tone, and a single EL84 through an 8" speaker. I needed recapping and a speaker, I passed. It would have been perfect! I really only want to spend about NZ$250 you see, thats US$165 or therabouts... Thinking about a Kustom Tube12, though have only played one through a big cab and it sounded great with a Strat. Have read good stuff on the Tech 21 TM10, might be a little more than I wanna spend..... All the second hand small amps I see seem to be Peavey Rages or Blazers, little Marshalls etc.....arghhhh Cheers, Adam

April 27th, 2004, 01:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
biker joe Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 298	I have gone through the very same dilema as you. I have done the scale down from a twin reverb to a princeton reverb, to a vibro champ, and finally to an emory sound micro baby. I still have all but the twin reverb. I am of a mind set that I think every guitar play should own a champ. I think it is a right of passage. Just plugging straight in at home does wonders. It sounds great and more importantly allows for no excusses so you end up focusing on the music and practicing more on your technique rather than getting too caught up in tone issues. However, I recently obtained a weber mini mass that I can use with all my amps. It hooks between the speaker and amp and is a sort of attenuator. As much as I am a big champ supporter, I have to admit that my princeton reverb hooked up to the mass with the volume reduced by the mass sounds much better than the champ. I would think that you could hook something like this up to your existing amps like the classic. With the weber you just unplug the speaker from the amp and put it inbetween. Just unplug and plug... no soldering or electrical experience required. Weber is a US based company but the guy is extremely responsive and I would think he would ship something your way. There are other alternatives out there too. THD makes the hot plate attenuator and I'm sure there are a few others. I bet one of these things will save you a new amp purchase. It really increases the flexability of an amp. But I still think you should get a champ anyway.....

April 27th, 2004, 12:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mickey Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: L.A., CA Posts: 936	I second Biker Joe on the attenuator. I use a 15W Pro jr that I can mic (or not mic) out of the house, but that's still too loud for the house. A Weber minimass on that has been the ticket. All the tone, less volume. If your master volume and pregain are putting you where you want to be in terms of tone, but not volume, an attenuator may be an affordable option. the Weber minimass (for a 15w amp) cost around $40. Whatever Biker Joe uses for amps large and small must have cost him more, but still affordable I'd think.

April 27th, 2004, 05:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	The only disadvantage of the little amps is they are pretty shy on the low end. 5 Watt Champs sound great but they have no thump at all. If a champ is too loud, sounds like you need a headphone amp.

April 28th, 2004, 07:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Adam Waldron Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 607	Yes! I think an attenuator will be just the ticket. Not super cheap by the time one takes the exchange rate into account, freight, customs entry, any tax at this end etc....I could end up back at small second-hand tube amp prices.... As we know, most amps don't sing on '3'. What I want is that sort of volume level, say my Classic 30 on '3', with the level of break-up I like at say '7'. Thats still pretty clean in my book. I am not looking for dimed amp sort of filth..... I don't want to be whisper quiet, I just can't play in an inspired fashion when power tubes aren't working a bit. Feel, response, tone etc. The modelling amp idea has got me thinking too..... More research..... Thanks folks, Adam

April 29th, 2004, 11:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
WrapAround Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 804 14 Photos	Try Zvex Nanohead. It gets a little buzzy when you dime it but it sounds very very good up to 2/3~1/4 of full volume.