Heads Up! American made 6L6s From Groove Tube

jonkay1 · July 2nd, 2009, 06:29 PM

Just wanted to get the word out about these new Groove Tubes, 6L6GE. They bought the machinery on which these tubes were made from the last existing General Electric tube manufacturer in Kentucky. They are reproductions made based on original General Electric specifications. "Made in California" is proudly printed on the base of these tubes. Imagine! Something actually made here in the U.S. It's about time. Every review I've read online has been very positive. I bought a matched pair for my Fender Deville to replace the Russian made Sovteks, and the sound of the amp improved immensely. More punch, more clarity. Not only do you get a great tube, but you also support American manufacturing.

Wally · July 2nd, 2009, 07:35 PM

jonkay1, these have been in production for some time now. Please read the GT description carefuly....
http://www.groovetubes.com/GT-6L6GE_Duet_P1713.cfm
These tubes do have 'high U.S. content'.....but are finished in China. GT doesn't clue you into the China build aspect...but that 'high U.S. content' is the key to understanding that the tubes are not total U.S. manufacture. There is no manufacturing facility in the U.S. that can do the hazardous metals due to the expense of EPA demands.

e-merlin · July 2nd, 2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

There is no manufacturing facility in the U.S. that can do the hazardous metals due to the expense of EPA demands.

There's going to be a lot of that going around pretty soon.

Anyway...

Doesn't Fender own Groove Tubes.

jonkay1 · July 2nd, 2009, 08:15 PM

Sorry if I'm mistaken. Nothing I've read, including various reviews, mentioned anything about being made in China.As a matter of fact, several reviewers touted the made in the USA angle. If that is the case, how can GT print "Made In California"on these tubes? Isn't that some kind of flagrant violation of some law? It should be. Still a fine tube, though.

jonkay1 · July 2nd, 2009, 08:29 PM

Wally, I carefully read every bit of that link you provided. No where is the word China ever mentioned. As a matter of fact, their press release says that they plan to eventually be totally American made. Probably the be small tube parts come from China for now, but that should change. Always been a dreamer, you know?

Wally · July 2nd, 2009, 08:51 PM

jonkay1, I pointed out that they don't mention 'China' in the literature. I remember some years ago when they first got the equipment and were making their plans known. AT that time, they were slear that final assembly would be in China.
IF they start building tubes in the U.S> again, then a) they will be VERY expensive due to the EPA regulations and the labor costs, or b) the labor costs will have adjusted and U.S> citizens will be making 50 cents an hour, right?
I applaud GT for doing anything to make some jobs here in the U.S., but as far as I know these tubes are finalized in China. NOte the literature....'high U.S. content'..... How do they get to put 'Made in California'? Maybe Gov. Schwarzenneger sold Cali to the Chinese? lol The Chinesse own enough of our debt to be a full-fledged partner in our economy anyway. Imagine that....the largest 'capitalist' economy being supported and so enmeshed with the largest Communist economy! Wonders never cease. Peace through business!
IF I am incorrect on this, I apologize, but this was the GT plan of action when these tubes were first being built.
And...if they are good tubes, then Hurrah! I have been urging all of my young friends to learn Chinese. You can't argue with 2 billion+ people.....and you probably can't fight them, either! LOL Peace on EArth, good will toward men.

jjmantele · July 2nd, 2009, 09:01 PM

I'm thinking the base of the tube is made in California. I bought a portable closet thing one time that had an American flag proudly on the box with "Made in the USA" under it. The fine print mentioned that only the metal frame was made in the USA. So the entire outer shell/plastic/cloth/zipper thing ( the entire visible part) was made “in foreign countries.”

ramseybella · July 2nd, 2009, 10:16 PM

Are portable Holes still made in the U.S.?
I think I have one in my pocket these days..

fezz parka · July 2nd, 2009, 10:20 PM

More Apsen Pittman horse doo-doo. Wally's right on about the strict EPA standards. You'll never see another tube completely made in the USA. Wait until the lead laws go into effect in 2010. Then it's going to be harder to get Levi's.

tiktok · July 2nd, 2009, 10:32 PM

"GT reissue which have a majority of USA components made on the original General Electric machines, the original tools, dies, materials and processing formulas as acquired from the liquidation for the last American tube factory in Owensboro Kentucky.... The most expensive (because of the the high US content)"

Carefully worded, but doesn't sound like "horse do-do" to me.

marshman · July 2nd, 2009, 11:36 PM

"High US content" pretty much says "Not really emtirely made here in the US", dunnit?

As I'd heard, the guts were being put together in the US with the machinery (and more importantly at least as GTs business angle was concerned) and coatings bought from the Ownesboro plant. I thought the assembled guts were then shopped to China for final assembly.

Wonder how these guys are makin' out...

http://www.westernelectric.com/press.html

fezz parka · July 2nd, 2009, 11:38 PM

Aspen Pittman has long been full of horse doo-doo. He and Mike Matthews are twin sons from different mothers.

rangercaster · July 3rd, 2009, 12:31 AM

if you buy a new car, they have to disclose on the sticker where the components came from and where it was assembled ... if you buy a tube, you have to do your homework ... i would hate to see them charging 50 bucks for a Chinese tube based on the Made in USA claim ... i think somebody (not me ) should e-mail them and get the real scoop !!!

tiktok · July 3rd, 2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshman

Wonder how these guys are makin' out...

http://www.westernelectric.com/press.html

"The current price for a matched pair is USD $1,200.00 and is in stock and shipping."

Oof!

petebradt · July 3rd, 2009, 12:38 AM

DOn't trust Aspen Pittman and the tubes are too spendy.

Winged C for me.

jonkay1 · July 3rd, 2009, 03:00 AM

I bought a matched pair from Guitar Center for $48.00 plus tax. I don't care if they were manufactured by crazed wolverines in the jungles of Bora Bora. They are mighty fine tubes, worth every penny.

marshman · July 3rd, 2009, 07:57 AM

THAT'S useful information.

dogggone · July 3rd, 2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezz parka

More Apsen Pittman horse doo-doo. Wally's right on about the strict EPA standards. You'll never see another tube completely made in the USA. Wait until the lead laws go into effect in 2010. Then it's going to be harder to get Levi's.

is that a Cali state law...levis harder to get, why?

sorry for the hijack

Wally · July 3rd, 2009, 12:20 PM

As I stated earlier, when that equipment was purchased by Pittman and the plans were being made to construct this tubemore than 5 years ago IIRC, ASpen Pittman was very upfront about how the process was going to work. He hid nothing....the final assembly is in China. THe ad doesn't claim total U.S. production.
IF the tube was made totally in the U.S. for $48 a pair, then the NOS prices for REAL U.S. production tubes from yesteryear would not be steadily clmibing upward and upward and upward, right?
PErsonal thought...if the tube is as good as jonkay1 says, then it is the first Chinese production tube that I would find usable for my purposes. YMMV

BritishBluesBoy · July 3rd, 2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezz parka

More Apsen Pittman horse doo-doo. Wally's right on about the strict EPA standards. You'll never see another tube completely made in the USA. Wait until the lead laws go into effect in 2010. Then it's going to be harder to get Levi's.

Good luck finding a US made pair of Levi's... Check the label of the pair you are wearing.

fezz parka · July 3rd, 2009, 12:36 PM

I have a pair of US made ones. I look at the tags when I buy 'em. Of the ones sewn up in other countries, the ones made in Mexico fit the best. All of the fabric is made in China though. Once the lead laws ( which are for all of the US) go into effect, they're gonna be more expensive...

The best 6L6's in current production are the Winged C's.

muchxs · July 3rd, 2009, 01:46 PM

Final assembly in China = Made in China.

The way to get away with it is the other way around. Fabricate the guts in China to dodge the EPA. All the hazardous processes should be down somewhere else. Ship the guts over here unassembled, evacuate and seal the envelope here, flash the getter... you have U.S. made tubes.

The funny part is China has regulations more strict than RoHS... for imports into China. But then RoHS apparently doesn't apply for exports. It doesn't really matter. You can manufacture and ship some pretty toxic stuff with the proper certification.

Tele-Dave · July 3rd, 2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Wait until the lead laws go into effect in 2010.

There is no more lead left in China. They shipped it all over here in kids toys, paint, and cheap electronics.

fezz parka · July 3rd, 2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogggone

is that a Cali state law...levis harder to get, why?

sorry for the hijack

The vats that they're dyed in have lead in them. The buttons have lead in them. The rivets have lead in them. It's gonna whack the fashion industry hard.

Jeffscreamedcorn · July 3rd, 2009, 06:41 PM

I've got them in my Twin - they sound great!

Colo Springs E · July 3rd, 2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezz parka

The vats that they're dyed in have lead in them. The buttons have lead in them. The rivets have lead in them. It's gonna whack the fashion industry hard.

Couldn't they just make the rivets out of something else? Don't know about the other parts of the process...

6x47 · July 4th, 2009, 12:38 AM

"The buttons have lead in them. The rivets have lead in them."

Brass!

iansmitchell · July 4th, 2009, 01:55 AM

Lead isn't dangerous. Anyone who's done soldering can tell you even molten lead isn't gonna kill you being close to it. All the BS about getting rid of a substance that is naturally occurrent and abundant is a blight, a mark on why government should not receive such power.

TDPRI · July 4th, 2009, 10:42 AM

The politics of which country made the tubes, the jeans or the rivets doesn't belong in a discussion about amplifiers.

In your amp a tube is a tube and your amp doesn't know where it was made. If it matters to you where it was made then that's your own personal politics being discussed not anything to do with the tube, your amp or your tone.

THIS is a website to discuss the tube, the amp and the tone NOT YOUR POLITICS. We don't care one whit about your politics. Keep it to yourself.

PS. The rules of this website clearly state:
...it's not for discussion of foreign policy, global warming, job outsourcing, domestic economic policy, global trade issues, gun rights, criminal justice policy or issues, any specific branches of government or generally any government policy on the local, state, national or international level.

July 2nd, 2009, 06:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
jonkay1 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 121	Heads Up! American made 6L6s From Groove Tube Just wanted to get the word out about these new Groove Tubes, 6L6GE. They bought the machinery on which these tubes were made from the last existing General Electric tube manufacturer in Kentucky. They are reproductions made based on original General Electric specifications. "Made in California" is proudly printed on the base of these tubes. Imagine! Something actually made here in the U.S. It's about time. Every review I've read online has been very positive. I bought a matched pair for my Fender Deville to replace the Russian made Sovteks, and the sound of the amp improved immensely. More punch, more clarity. Not only do you get a great tube, but you also support American manufacturing.

July 2nd, 2009, 09:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
jjmantele Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 897	I'm thinking the base of the tube is made in California. I bought a portable closet thing one time that had an American flag proudly on the box with "Made in the USA" under it. The fine print mentioned that only the metal frame was made in the USA. So the entire outer shell/plastic/cloth/zipper thing ( the entire visible part) was made “in foreign countries.” __________________ JJman If it says "Vintage" on it -it isn't.

July 2nd, 2009, 10:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
tiktok Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,041	"GT reissue which have a majority of USA components made on the original General Electric machines, the original tools, dies, materials and processing formulas as acquired from the liquidation for the last American tube factory in Owensboro Kentucky.... The most expensive (because of the the high US content)" Carefully worded, but doesn't sound like "horse do-do" to me. __________________ "I like a tune. I like a tune and a singer and a solo, and now more of the tune."--Ian McLagan http://www.myspace.com/travishartnett Pearce Amps Info Page

July 2nd, 2009, 11:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
marshman Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SE PA Age: 41 Posts: 1,975	"High US content" pretty much says "Not really emtirely made here in the US", dunnit? As I'd heard, the guts were being put together in the US with the machinery (and more importantly at least as GTs business angle was concerned) and coatings bought from the Ownesboro plant. I thought the assembled guts were then shopped to China for final assembly. Wonder how these guys are makin' out... http://www.westernelectric.com/press.html __________________ 42

July 3rd, 2009, 12:31 AM	#13 (permalink)
rangercaster Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2008 Location: portland, or Age: 52 Posts: 1,528	if you buy a new car, they have to disclose on the sticker where the components came from and where it was assembled ... if you buy a tube, you have to do your homework ... i would hate to see them charging 50 bucks for a Chinese tube based on the Made in USA claim ... i think somebody (not me ) should e-mail them and get the real scoop !!! __________________ "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." Oscar Wilde

July 2nd, 2009, 07:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wally Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 5,956	jonkay1, these have been in production for some time now. Please read the GT description carefuly.... http://www.groovetubes.com/GT-6L6GE_Duet_P1713.cfm These tubes do have 'high U.S. content'.....but are finished in China. GT doesn't clue you into the China build aspect...but that 'high U.S. content' is the key to understanding that the tubes are not total U.S. manufacture. There is no manufacturing facility in the U.S. that can do the hazardous metals due to the expense of EPA demands.

July 2nd, 2009, 08:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
jonkay1 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 121	Sorry if I'm mistaken. Nothing I've read, including various reviews, mentioned anything about being made in China.As a matter of fact, several reviewers touted the made in the USA angle. If that is the case, how can GT print "Made In California"on these tubes? Isn't that some kind of flagrant violation of some law? It should be. Still a fine tube, though.

July 2nd, 2009, 08:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
jonkay1 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 121	Wally, I carefully read every bit of that link you provided. No where is the word China ever mentioned. As a matter of fact, their press release says that they plan to eventually be totally American made. Probably the be small tube parts come from China for now, but that should change. Always been a dreamer, you know?

July 2nd, 2009, 08:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
Wally Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 5,956	jonkay1, I pointed out that they don't mention 'China' in the literature. I remember some years ago when they first got the equipment and were making their plans known. AT that time, they were slear that final assembly would be in China. IF they start building tubes in the U.S> again, then a) they will be VERY expensive due to the EPA regulations and the labor costs, or b) the labor costs will have adjusted and U.S> citizens will be making 50 cents an hour, right? I applaud GT for doing anything to make some jobs here in the U.S., but as far as I know these tubes are finalized in China. NOte the literature....'high U.S. content'..... How do they get to put 'Made in California'? Maybe Gov. Schwarzenneger sold Cali to the Chinese? lol The Chinesse own enough of our debt to be a full-fledged partner in our economy anyway. Imagine that....the largest 'capitalist' economy being supported and so enmeshed with the largest Communist economy! Wonders never cease. Peace through business! IF I am incorrect on this, I apologize, but this was the GT plan of action when these tubes were first being built. And...if they are good tubes, then Hurrah! I have been urging all of my young friends to learn Chinese. You can't argue with 2 billion+ people.....and you probably can't fight them, either! LOL Peace on EArth, good will toward men.

July 2nd, 2009, 10:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
ramseybella Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Santa Fe New Mexico Posts: 1,426 39 Photos	Are portable Holes still made in the U.S.? I think I have one in my pocket these days..

July 2nd, 2009, 10:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
fezz parka Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 1,633 47 Photos	More Apsen Pittman horse doo-doo. Wally's right on about the strict EPA standards. You'll never see another tube completely made in the USA. Wait until the lead laws go into effect in 2010. Then it's going to be harder to get Levi's.

July 2nd, 2009, 11:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
fezz parka Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 1,633 47 Photos	Aspen Pittman has long been full of horse doo-doo. He and Mike Matthews are twin sons from different mothers.

July 3rd, 2009, 12:38 AM	#15 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 4,255 12 Photos	DOn't trust Aspen Pittman and the tubes are too spendy. Winged C for me.

July 3rd, 2009, 03:00 AM	#16 (permalink)
jonkay1 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 121	I bought a matched pair from Guitar Center for $48.00 plus tax. I don't care if they were manufactured by crazed wolverines in the jungles of Bora Bora. They are mighty fine tubes, worth every penny.

July 3rd, 2009, 07:57 AM	#17 (permalink)
marshman Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SE PA Age: 41 Posts: 1,975	THAT'S useful information. __________________ 42

July 3rd, 2009, 12:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
Wally Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 5,956	As I stated earlier, when that equipment was purchased by Pittman and the plans were being made to construct this tubemore than 5 years ago IIRC, ASpen Pittman was very upfront about how the process was going to work. He hid nothing....the final assembly is in China. THe ad doesn't claim total U.S. production. IF the tube was made totally in the U.S. for $48 a pair, then the NOS prices for REAL U.S. production tubes from yesteryear would not be steadily clmibing upward and upward and upward, right? PErsonal thought...if the tube is as good as jonkay1 says, then it is the first Chinese production tube that I would find usable for my purposes. YMMV

July 3rd, 2009, 12:36 PM	#21 (permalink)
fezz parka Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 1,633 47 Photos	I have a pair of US made ones. I look at the tags when I buy 'em. Of the ones sewn up in other countries, the ones made in Mexico fit the best. All of the fabric is made in China though. Once the lead laws ( which are for all of the US) go into effect, they're gonna be more expensive... The best 6L6's in current production are the Winged C's.

July 3rd, 2009, 01:46 PM	#22 (permalink)
muchxs Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New England Posts: 1,181	Final assembly in China = Made in China. The way to get away with it is the other way around. Fabricate the guts in China to dodge the EPA. All the hazardous processes should be down somewhere else. Ship the guts over here unassembled, evacuate and seal the envelope here, flash the getter... you have U.S. made tubes. The funny part is China has regulations more strict than RoHS... for imports into China. But then RoHS apparently doesn't apply for exports. It doesn't really matter. You can manufacture and ship some pretty toxic stuff with the proper certification.

July 3rd, 2009, 06:41 PM	#25 (permalink)
Jeffscreamedcorn Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: beantown Age: 52 Posts: 823	I've got them in my Twin - they sound great!

July 4th, 2009, 12:38 AM	#27 (permalink)
6x47 Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern ON - Northern MN Age: 65 Posts: 568	"The buttons have lead in them. The rivets have lead in them." Brass!

July 4th, 2009, 01:55 AM	#28 (permalink)
iansmitchell Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Gainesville, Florida Posts: 1,007	Lead isn't dangerous. Anyone who's done soldering can tell you even molten lead isn't gonna kill you being close to it. All the BS about getting rid of a substance that is naturally occurrent and abundant is a blight, a mark on why government should not receive such power. __________________ ... Please do not insinuate anything sexual from that.

July 4th, 2009, 10:42 AM	#29 (permalink)
TDPRI Administrator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: TDPRILAND Posts: 7,032 46 Photos	The politics of which country made the tubes, the jeans or the rivets doesn't belong in a discussion about amplifiers. In your amp a tube is a tube and your amp doesn't know where it was made. If it matters to you where it was made then that's your own personal politics being discussed not anything to do with the tube, your amp or your tone. THIS is a website to discuss the tube, the amp and the tone NOT YOUR POLITICS. We don't care one whit about your politics. Keep it to yourself. PS. The rules of this website clearly state: ...it's not for discussion of foreign policy, global warming, job outsourcing, domestic economic policy, global trade issues, gun rights, criminal justice policy or issues, any specific branches of government or generally any government policy on the local, state, national or international level.

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