help me pick a fender combo

[earlgrae]

ive been pretty attatched to my '68 blackface bandmaster head for a while, but im sick of carrying it and a cab everywhere, andim dying without reverb. i was thinking it was about time i bought a combo, but i really dont know what to look at. i want reverb(it would be nice if its foot controllable, but by no means necessary) and tremelo. I would like a 15 or 12 inch speaker in there, and it needs to be loud enough to play with no mic in a small-medium sized room. i was checking out possibly the vibro series (king, lux, champ, etc.), but am not finding everything i want for good price. give me a hand, id appreciate it

Vince

[JDO]

first thought when i read this is - if you like the bandmaster, and you want a combo with reverb then you need to be looking at the vibrolux reverb. it's two tens but it's basically the bandmaster, with a tube rectifier and reverb.

but i have another/different option for you. why not just get someone to make you (or you kake it yourself) a combo cab that will hold the bandmaster chassis and the 12 or 15 that you're wanting? and as far as reverb you could get a holy grail reverb pedal which i've heard is really good. i think this would be the cheapest option for you. just my thoughts.

[Tele295]

How about a Deluxe Reverb? 1x12, reverb & trem, combo

[JDO]

earlgrae

it needs to be loud enough to play with no mic in a small-medium sized room

Tele295

How about a Deluxe Reverb? 1x12, reverb & trem, combo

will a deluxe cover a medium sized room? i ask in seriousness. i have no experience using one in this setting.

btw, earlgrae - are you wanting it to be clean?

[earlgrae]

it needs to be very clean. I run a very extensive pedal board for everything i need, but am looking to simplify. i would like reverb with the amp because i am a firm believer that there is no good substitute for a vintage fender reverb, and because i am trying to minimalize my setup and do not have room for a pedal. i want the tremelo on the amp because i already have a tremelo in my effects loop before some other things, and want the tremelo from the amp to be the last thing in the loop. thanks a lot, i appreciate all the help

[JDO]

ya know, david allen modded a bandmaster one time to have reverb in it. it was for one of the tdprier's. the guy who had it done loves it (or did when he posted it). david took the first channel and made it the reverb so the guy had a three knob reverb. i asked david allen about it one time and he said he was really happy with it. it said that it was very quiet and it made him think about where the reverb controls should be placed. maybe since david has already done it, it wouldn't take long to do it for you.

you probably won't go this route but it's an option.

i'm still thinking the vibrolux.

[Paul G.]

which is also loud enough for your purposes is the Pro Reverb.

I'm not a fan of the Vibrolux reverb. The small cab and 10" speakers make it sound weak and ratty to me. The Pro Reverb is more full, and thus smoother.

A Silver Face Pro Reverb is still an absolute bargain at today's prices. Easily modded to blackface specs.

A Black Face Pro Reverb, although more expensive is a steal.

Get one of them before the world catches on the their greatness.

P.

[5965]

If clean is important, a 2-6L6 amp would probably be the ticket, although some DR's can run 6L6's or tighter rectifier tubes for increased headroom. Not SS, though.

If you want 12's or 15's, then the obvious choices would be the PR (BF or SF) and the BF Vibroverb.

An often overlooked option might be a 1979-82 Fender 75, which came in 12" and 15" combos plus a head. The 15's a great amp, not unlike the BFV, but heavy. Volume and clean would not be a problem. They also have a 15W/75W power selector switch.

They've got an undeservedly bad rep, chiefly because 1)the controls are so sensitive you can make rude noises and 2) by now some of the preamp tubes need to be replaced. Set properly, they're basically indistinguishable from a BF, and very inexpensive.

Most people think the VR works better with humbuckers and the PR works better with single-coils, but there is no rule.

[earlgrae]

i checked out some of the suggestions, and it sounds like a reverb deluxe might be the way to go. 1 12, not too heavy, smooth reverb and tremelo. id most likely want to go reissue for my wallets sake. anybody selling one, or looking to trade for a blackfaced bandmaster+cash ?

[5965]

Saw a DRRI in pretty good shape for $499 yesterday. Basically, the tolex on the bottom front was chewed up; otherwise it was pretty clean.

Originals are going to vary considerably in price, of course.

FWIW.

[Jay Jordan]

i'd definitely get an older SF Pro Reverb or Vibrolux Reverb

both great amps in early 70's vintage

[Dacious]

I would buy any year Vibrolux Reverb. It like the Princeton and Deluxe Reverb got modded the least out of the SFs. My '80 (going by speakers codes) has a pull-boost which comprises off-board components and can be foot controlled - doesn't actually sound too bad in a modern sorta way. This amp unlike almost all other SF amps still has a bias level, not balance pot (good) and no mid controls (not so good but livable) and appears to still have a birchplay cab. I keep bass down to 4 on mine, but there's not shortage of response.

With all due respect, a Pro Reverb (I owned one) is a lot of amp - same cab as a Twin and not much short of the same weight for small rooms and it's frustrating to play on 3 all the time, unless you're playing in company with Marshall stacks and very loud, heavy-rock drums.

The VR is almost as loud wound up, but is much more controllable at lower levels. It misses nothing compared to the Pro, and in fact is similar a Pro or Bandmaster Reverb with 2 x 10s instead of 2 x 12s. I personally think the 2 x 10s works good with a bass - keeps you off their turf.

[Mark]

I had an old blackface that I used for years in small to medium rooms. In medium rooms I always had to mike it though, because when I cranked it up to 5 or 6 it wasn't clean enough. After all it only puts out 22 watts. A Pro Reverb gets my vote. It's 40 watts with 2 12's and perfect for a clean but punchy sound in small to medium rooms. Check out a Vox AC30 also, but they're big bucks.

[alexbatonrouge]

or at least any other point- to point wired amp with more than 30 Watts. (SF is fine and even cheaper than reissues in some cases)

I would not go for a reissue as an option. I did not like any of them. All DRRI I heard were harsh and cold compared to my Silverface amps. Some of the newer amps are not bad, but no tremolo.

I would go for more than 30 Watts to have enough clean headroom. All vintage amps have different headrooms due to aging of the electrolytics, speakers... and can get crunchy at low 3-3,5 with certain guitars and pickups (All of my Teles in my case which are 69, 71, 72 stock). My SFPR crunches at 3,5, my SF to BFTR at 5 ,5 and the VR that I just bought at 2,5 (but this needs to be fixed I guess). I could never play my SFPR in the band I play in. It would simply be too quiet with our steel guitarist and one of the louder drummers.

[earlgrae]

does pro reverb have tremelo? on harmony central, some said it did and some didnt. what speaker arrangement options are available? I dont want 10s, im only really interested in a 12 or 15. are there any other fender amps that fit the specs? 12 or 15, reverb, tremelo, probably under 600 used? thanks

[Jay N.]

Originally Posted by Mark

I had an old blackface that I used for years in small to medium rooms. In medium rooms I always had to mike it though, because when I cranked it up to 5 or 6 it wasn't clean enough. After all it only puts out 22 watts.

I'm partial to SFDR's, particularly with a Tele. To get extra headroom and volume, mod it to accept 6L6 tubes and use a loud efficient speaker like a Weber California 12". That should stay clean to 5-6 and possibly higher.

[Mik]

Originally Posted by earlgrae

does pro reverb have tremelo? on harmony central, some said it did and some didnt. what speaker arrangement options are available? I dont want 10s, im only really interested in a 12 or 15. are there any other fender amps that fit the specs? 12 or 15, reverb, tremelo, probably under 600 used? thanks

The 60s and 70s Pro Reverb had tremelo and two 12" speakers. It won't be easy to find a 70s Pro Reverb for under $600 but a hard and patient search may dig one up. A Pro Reverb costing less than $600 will probably require a tune up and/or repair, more $s.

Have you visited this website? Has specs on all the 50s 60s 70s Fender amps, it's informative (I haven't seen any issues about its accuracy on the web) and will save you time:
http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/

Good luck,
Mik

[Mik]

If your budget for this amp is under 600 bucks, you need to shop outside the vintage amp group and check out recent production used tube combo amps Fender and others. Ebay is an excellent place to start, look at this Fender Blues Deville 212 (two 12" speakers, 40 or 50 watts), I found it and several others a few minutes ago and it's near the end of its auction, but likely it and others like it will sell for less than $600 leaving some bucks for a tremolo pedal and tune up. This amp 3+ hours before close is at $365:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=38074

Others you might consider are the 90s/current Fender Hot Rod Deville and the 80s Fender Concert (mixed opinions about this one). You can find out a lot about features by just doing a Fender Amp search on ebay.

Mik

[earlgrae]

so besides the fact that the reissue usses eminence speakers :x , how do they sound? how do they compare to a bfdr?

[5965]

The most common words I've heard used by detractors are harsh and tinny. That said, some people love them.

A lot of it is going to vary depending upon the specific amp, the tubes and their age, and how broken in the speaker is.

Some of it may depend upon whether you're using single coils or humbuckers.

Naturally, it'd be best to try a couple with your gear rather than take anybody else's word for it. YMMV.

Good luck.

[JDO]

going on what 5965 said - you might want to try and take all your gear into a store near you that is selling one and see what you think.

i played through one and it was ok. i wasn't in a gigging situation so it's hard to say. but here's what i've heard and read that people say about them. first off, they aren't the originals and aren't built like them so there are those that hate them off the bat. they say that the construction is poor and leads to the harsh sound.

others have said they are great for the money and what they are. i've read that the tubes in them aren't the best and they are biased way too cold so fender can be sure the tubes will last through the warrenty. if you rebias, or even change the tubes, bias, and do a speaker upgrade - i've read that they can be a excalent amp for the money.

personally, if i'm going through all of that to make a new amp sound good, i'm going to just go for a SF and get it sounding like i want.

another thing - since you're set on the 12 or 15, a lot of people take bandmaster reverb heads and get a cab for them and turn them into vibroverbs. you might want to look around for one of those.

i'm trying to help you out but buy your money limitation (which i understand - and i wish that would have been my limit when i was looking) and you specific requests make it kinda hard to get you what you want.

[JDO]

something else you can check out. i was on the fender forum a while ago and someone asked if it's possible to make a blues deluxe sound like a deluxe reverb. this is the thread. you might want to read it. it could be an option for you.

http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.htm...-04-0322:31:51

[earlgrae]

the money limitation is nothing set in stone. ill spend what i need to get what i want. i would just have to sell my bandmaster head and my cab before i was willing to go any further. id just have to find someone willing to give me a reasonable price for the bandmaster. question: would a deluxe reverb be able to do anything to power a 2 12 cab at 8 ohms each? its only 22 wats, will it make that much of a difference?

[Scotland]

I,,,

[eggman]

Earlgrae,

An "old" Fender Super 60/112/210 might be worth investigating for a medium powered clean applications.Of course, they've got reverb, but no Tremolo.
These amps (all combos, but head and rack versions are available) are great for clean and have an overdrive channel. Due to thier unpopularity ( they don't do that traditional Fender "in-between" overdrive well. ), they are a comparative bargain on the used market.
My 1990 Super 112 is loud and still running strong, again does the clean thing quite well. Good luck

Repectfully,
Eggman

[Mur]

Super Reverbs are good ..I used one exclusively for a couple decades (before defecting to the non-reverb side).