10's and 12's - other than size . . .

dean · April 18th, 2004, 01:09 AM

How are these sizes different in terms of general characteristics? I've been playing for a while, but I'd like to try some cab-building. I've always felt that the bigger the speaker, the better the tone and volume. Now, I know that I'm wrong about that to a large degree. But I really don't know what the characteristics of each are - why would a 2x10 be preferred over a 2x12 (or even a 1x10 over a 1x12)? Assume that you have speakers of equal construction (say a Jensen C10R and a C12R or comparable Webers) - what would the characteristic differences be?

I hope my question is clear?

Thanks,
Dean

Synchro · May 1st, 2004, 02:41 AM

I know that for myself I prefer 2x12, 1x12 and 2x10 in that order of preference but of course nothing is that easy in the real world. A simple rule of thumb would be that a large diameter speaker will have a greater bass response than a smaller speaker but it goes well beyond that. Cone shape, magnet type and size and any number of other variables come into play. Then we get into multiple speaker arrangements, cabinet design & materials, crossovers and open vs closed back cabinets.

4x10" speakers will move more air than one 15" speaker but should have a better treble response. 2x12s seem to be the best compromise to me and I like the sound for either Bass or Guitar. I've also heard some intriguing things about the combination of a 10" and a 12" in one cabinet.

There are a number of books on speaker cabinet design although many are geared towards HiFi speakers. You can probably find some good web help too. WWW.18watt.com has a discussion area devoted to speakers and cabinets. While they are Marshall oriented over there you should be able to meet-up with some people that know the ropes as far as speakers and cabinets are concerned and this will probably help you in any direction.

Being a Twin Cities guy you could just go down to Lavonne's (in Savage) and ask them.

Synchro · May 1st, 2004, 01:02 PM

This website has a freeware program you can use for speaker cabinet modeling. http://www.linearteam.dk/

dean · May 1st, 2004, 01:53 PM

Your response answers a lot of my questions (and creates a few more). It was Lavonne's that got me into this little speaker dilemma! I only live a few miles from Lavonne's, and i often stop by to check out what they've got (usually, I stop at Savage Audio first, then head on over to Lavonne's). Last summer, I picked up a Super Six Reverb there for a good price - except, the cabinet was totally shot. I've spent the months in between trying to decide what to do with the chassis and speakers. I finally found a Twin Reverb unfinished cab for the parts, so my speaker questions are partially answered.

After I finish the "Twin Reverb" project, I'll still have six 10' speakers left - four of them will go to eBay or the Garage Sale. I'd like to build a 2x10 cab for my Vibro Champ (right now, I have a 1x10 closed-back cube that I use). For my low volume jamming and practice, I think the 10s will produce greater articulation and definition.

Anyway, thanks for the info - it helps.

Dean

Synchro · May 1st, 2004, 02:17 PM

When I go to LaVonnes it's two-day drive but I still go there whenever I get to the Gopher State. I was a teacher for them in the '70s back when I played only Jazz. At that time I loved the sound of a 15" speaker. Later I gravitated to 2x10 setups but my current Holy Grail is a 12", alone or in pairs.

Like you said, the tens give you articulation and defintion and are great for lower volume settings. I switched from 10s to 12s when I started playing material that was more Blues oriented. I started working in a band where my 2x10, 60 Watt Behringer just didn't cut it anymore. I had plenty of volume but the sound lacked substance at the greater volumes I needed. At the moment I play a Hot Rod DeVille and am awaiting a Blues Jr. (both from LaVonnes).

dafack01 · May 2nd, 2004, 11:02 PM

I had the same question you did about a month ago. From my research and suggestions (and playing a Vibrolux for a little bit at a store, which is 2X10), I've found that 10's are brighter, shallower in the mids, and have a tighter, punchier bass (That's why you see so many 4X10, 6X10, and 8X10 Bass cabs out there). The bigger the speaker, the more bottom end it has. That's why 15" speakers aren't as bright as a 10" generally. There's MUCH more bottom end and mids than a 10". 12's aren't as punchy in the bass as a 10", but have more bass and mids (not as much as a 15" though), but still give you good treble response, which is why they're so popular for rock. They're creamier. 10's are a little twangier.

dean · May 2nd, 2004, 11:41 PM

Both my guitars are a bit on the "dark side" of the trebel knob. The '74 Tele Custom usually sits in the middle or neck position, and the hollowbody is a rhythm monster. I think the 10s will allow for a bit more use of the high end.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Dean

April 18th, 2004, 01:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
dean Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Age: 60 Posts: 2,042	10's and 12's - other than size . . . How are these sizes different in terms of general characteristics? I've been playing for a while, but I'd like to try some cab-building. I've always felt that the bigger the speaker, the better the tone and volume. Now, I know that I'm wrong about that to a large degree. But I really don't know what the characteristics of each are - why would a 2x10 be preferred over a 2x12 (or even a 1x10 over a 1x12)? Assume that you have speakers of equal construction (say a Jensen C10R and a C12R or comparable Webers) - what would the characteristic differences be? I hope my question is clear? Thanks, Dean __________________ "I used to be clueless, but I've turned that situation around 360 degrees."

May 1st, 2004, 02:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
Synchro Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ. Age: 54 Posts: 328	They all have different characteristics. I know that for myself I prefer 2x12, 1x12 and 2x10 in that order of preference but of course nothing is that easy in the real world. A simple rule of thumb would be that a large diameter speaker will have a greater bass response than a smaller speaker but it goes well beyond that. Cone shape, magnet type and size and any number of other variables come into play. Then we get into multiple speaker arrangements, cabinet design & materials, crossovers and open vs closed back cabinets. 4x10" speakers will move more air than one 15" speaker but should have a better treble response. 2x12s seem to be the best compromise to me and I like the sound for either Bass or Guitar. I've also heard some intriguing things about the combination of a 10" and a 12" in one cabinet. There are a number of books on speaker cabinet design although many are geared towards HiFi speakers. You can probably find some good web help too. WWW.18watt.com has a discussion area devoted to speakers and cabinets. While they are Marshall oriented over there you should be able to meet-up with some people that know the ropes as far as speakers and cabinets are concerned and this will probably help you in any direction. Being a Twin Cities guy you could just go down to Lavonne's (in Savage) and ask them. __________________ Synchro; My Guitar Website "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing; if you can fake that, you've got it made" -- Groucho Marx

May 1st, 2004, 01:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Synchro Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ. Age: 54 Posts: 328	Perhaps this will help. This website has a freeware program you can use for speaker cabinet modeling. http://www.linearteam.dk/ __________________ Synchro; My Guitar Website "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing; if you can fake that, you've got it made" -- Groucho Marx

May 1st, 2004, 01:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
dean Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Age: 60 Posts: 2,042	Thanks, Mark Your response answers a lot of my questions (and creates a few more). It was Lavonne's that got me into this little speaker dilemma! I only live a few miles from Lavonne's, and i often stop by to check out what they've got (usually, I stop at Savage Audio first, then head on over to Lavonne's). Last summer, I picked up a Super Six Reverb there for a good price - except, the cabinet was totally shot. I've spent the months in between trying to decide what to do with the chassis and speakers. I finally found a Twin Reverb unfinished cab for the parts, so my speaker questions are partially answered. After I finish the "Twin Reverb" project, I'll still have six 10' speakers left - four of them will go to eBay or the Garage Sale. I'd like to build a 2x10 cab for my Vibro Champ (right now, I have a 1x10 closed-back cube that I use). For my low volume jamming and practice, I think the 10s will produce greater articulation and definition. Anyway, thanks for the info - it helps. Dean __________________ "I used to be clueless, but I've turned that situation around 360 degrees."

May 1st, 2004, 02:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Synchro Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ. Age: 54 Posts: 328	Man, I envy you. When I go to LaVonnes it's two-day drive but I still go there whenever I get to the Gopher State. I was a teacher for them in the '70s back when I played only Jazz. At that time I loved the sound of a 15" speaker. Later I gravitated to 2x10 setups but my current Holy Grail is a 12", alone or in pairs. Like you said, the tens give you articulation and defintion and are great for lower volume settings. I switched from 10s to 12s when I started playing material that was more Blues oriented. I started working in a band where my 2x10, 60 Watt Behringer just didn't cut it anymore. I had plenty of volume but the sound lacked substance at the greater volumes I needed. At the moment I play a Hot Rod DeVille and am awaiting a Blues Jr. (both from LaVonnes). __________________ Synchro; My Guitar Website "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing; if you can fake that, you've got it made" -- Groucho Marx

May 2nd, 2004, 11:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
dafack01 Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 123	I had the same question you did about a month ago. From my research and suggestions (and playing a Vibrolux for a little bit at a store, which is 2X10), I've found that 10's are brighter, shallower in the mids, and have a tighter, punchier bass (That's why you see so many 4X10, 6X10, and 8X10 Bass cabs out there). The bigger the speaker, the more bottom end it has. That's why 15" speakers aren't as bright as a 10" generally. There's MUCH more bottom end and mids than a 10". 12's aren't as punchy in the bass as a 10", but have more bass and mids (not as much as a 15" though), but still give you good treble response, which is why they're so popular for rock. They're creamier. 10's are a little twangier.

May 2nd, 2004, 11:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
dean Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Age: 60 Posts: 2,042	Sounds like I want the 10s Both my guitars are a bit on the "dark side" of the trebel knob. The '74 Tele Custom usually sits in the middle or neck position, and the hollowbody is a rhythm monster. I think the 10s will allow for a bit more use of the high end. Thanks for the responses, guys. Dean __________________ "I used to be clueless, but I've turned that situation around 360 degrees."