$8000 for a Gerald Weber Signature Amp?!?

[ch1naski]

THAT is a LOT of cash for an amp. Anybody own one? Or played outta one? Is there really an amplifier worth that kind of money?
http://kendrick-amplifiers.com/Merch...Category_Code=

[Stuco]

Originally Posted by ch1naski

Is there really an amplifier worth that kind of money?
]

Not to me.

[ch1naski]

And here I was , complaining about $3000 "boutique" amps......

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Stuco

Not to me.

Ditto. But lke the Onceler said, "You never can tell what some people will buy".

[Scott S]

It's out of my price range, but there are some interesting ideas in there.

- Scott

[Sidney Vicious]

$8000? $800 is more than I can justify given my limited talent - but I sure would like to hear that reverb - sounds interesting.

But this:

"if you are a speed demon, the amp is very fast - so fast that it seems as if the amp knows which note you are going to play before you play it. There will be times that you will be sure that the amp beat you to the punch."

I think that *might* be hype . . .

Are some amps faster than others? Maybe that's been my problem all this years - slow amps holding me back!

[stantheman]

uh....right....8 thousand dollars.....an amplifier used for amplifying guitars....8 grand....
Anybody seen my Sam Kinison imitation?
Remember when the dude called his ex-girlfriend and Sam got on the phone?
uh....right....something like that.

[strat a various]

In the late 60s, a really good amp was at least $600-700, like a Marshall stack or a Showman. Maybe more. You could rent a house in So. Cal. for 150/ mo. Now, in the same area, a house is at least $2000/ mo. Seems like great amps can cost 4 times a month's rent in a house, then and now.
I'll leave it up to you-all to decide if Gerald Weber makes a great amp or not. I have other favorites, some less costly, some more. $8000 doesn't seem unreasonable.

[pgambon]

He has a full range of amps, some very reasonably priced. If you want the secret mojo sauce added it will cost a premium. I'd pass.

[crawdad]

I'm just gonna wait for all the Kendrick endorsees to chime in. In the last 20 years, I have yet to see one Kendrick amp on stage. So, I've never seen one and never heard one. Therefore, I know not whether they are the be-all and end-all of tube amps. Maybe so.

I don't have 2 grand to plunk down, let alone 8. Gimme a used Fender and lets boogie.

[Rob DiStefano]

whatever the traffic will bear - and he will sell at least a few, but never ever to me. yeesh, that's just a stupid price, but a sucker is born every day ......

[JDC]

(tongue planted firmly in cheek)

I thought $8,000 was a little steep until I read this :

"Includes A.T.A. flight case". LOL

[Mike Eskimo]

The only people that still have dough enough to buy those are the same guys that caused a lot of folks to have to put their Silverface Champs on CL...

[Muddybuchfan]

Hmmmm..... $8000 for a.... What was his name again, and $6000 for a played real 1959 Fender Bassman? I think I would go with a real Leo and save a few grand maybe buy another used custom shop guitar, sorry Gerald.

[blues for pablo]

"All non-polarized capacitors are installed in proper polarity to prevent hum"

ummmm....what?

[lz_69]

Originally Posted by blues for pablo

"All non-polarized capacitors are installed in proper polarity to prevent hum"

ummmm....what?

BS... but a standard non polarized cap has two insulated layers of a foil or film rolled up; basically a inner and outer layer so you can reduce the interference by connecting the outer layer to the grounded side of the cct so it acts as a shield.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Sidney Vicious

"if you are a speed demon, the amp is very fast - so fast that it seems as if the amp knows which note you are going to play before you play it. There will be times that you will be sure that the amp beat you to the punch."

I think that *might* be hype . . .

Are some amps faster than others? Maybe that's been my problem all this years - slow amps holding me back!

It's not hype. It's about how the note is reproduced at the attack. It's one of those things you might have to hear to believe. You're $8k away from that...

Layout is critical. Bad layout hurts tone and almost every classic amp design has glaring mistakes in the layout - too much wire, too long of grid circuits, bad choices in placement of components. There is almost no wire in this amp! The layout was carefully designed and redesigned so that all grid circuits are extremely short (this makes the amp sound even better).

Short = fast. Electricity travels at close to the speed of light under ideal conditions so one might not think it makes a difference. It does. Even microchip designers pay attention to this, more compact circuits = faster chips. Faster is better.

Call Two Rock, ask them about their "wireless". Then ask them the price.

Originally Posted by blues for pablo

"All non-polarized capacitors are installed in proper polarity to prevent hum"

ummmm....what?

It doesn't translate well to ad copy. What he means is that all the signal caps have been tested, spec'ed and graded. Foil sides have been identified then properly oriented in circuit. It's a subtle trick but once you know it it's the way to get the amp 100% there...

Originally Posted by lz_69

BS... but a standard non polarized cap has two insulated layers of a foil or film rolled up; basically a inner and outer layer so you can reduce the interference by connecting the outer layer to the grounded side of the cct so it acts as a shield.

...and shields reduce hum. So it's not "BS".

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

whatever the traffic will bear - and he will sell at least a few, but never ever to me. yeesh, that's just a stupid price, but a sucker is born every day ......

C'mon, Rob... that's pretty harsh. If one showed up on your doorstep with a big bow on top you'd be singin' a different tune...

Here's what's happening in the amp market: There are guys like Gerald Weber, he's an originator. For every Gerald Weber there are a couple hundred copycats who can't understand anything but price. Amp building for me is about hundreds of minor epiphanies spread over decades. Gerald has had a lot of epiphanies over the years, large and small. The man did his apprenticeship a long time ago and has paid his dues many times over. The man has paid his dues, he's entitled to a journeyman's wage...

As opposed to the bottomfeeders who copy mindlessly. They can build to a bottomfeeder price by stripping out the care and the detail. They don't know it's not there because they can't see it to begin with.

Premium product commands premium price. Crap is crap.

[Sidney Vicious]

I have never "heard" of a fast amp - and until I do hear it I will remain a sceptic.

I don't fault the guy for charging as much as he wants and/or can get - I know I do!

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Sidney Vicious

I have never "heard" of a fast amp - and until I do hear it I will remain a sceptic.

I don't fault the guy for charging as much as he wants and/or can get - I know I do!

I'm sure you've heard a slow amp. Plug into an old tweed Champ. Cathode bias, underfiltered saggy power supply even when the undersized caps were brand new. There are a few other things that slow it down. Click it on and wind it all the way up to "12". Now play leads as fast as you can.

[Sidney Vicious]

I understand what you are saying - I think - but I disagree with the terminology - only semanitics I guess - I do think some amps allow for a crisper style of lead - and an old tweed Champ would not be that amp.

I guess in my mind clean is what he is calling fast.

[backalleyblues]

Hmm, canarywood? As used in Steinway pianos?... hmmmmm... especially since spruce is what's used for the soundboard in a piano, and that the shell of the piano is plywood (whether it contains any canarywood is something I don't know).

As far as keeping the leads short, and routing things to use less wire, this has been known nearly forever (eddy currents in wire, etc.) amongst electrical engineers. Leo Fender was trained as an accountant, and while he did a great job with amp design, he had no formal education. The first person to really think this through for guitar amps was Howard Dumble (Ken Fischer was also into this aspect, amongst others). Gerald is building on those people's efforts, and I'm sure there's a fair amount of difference in the sound because of it.

Muchxs has it right-more available amperage (because of increased filtering) results in more attack on the notes, and feels more articulate (some would say faster, I just say it it can keep up with you! ) You can apply this to any number of amps (just ask Billm about Blues Juniors!) to get it to "jump" better.

As far as the tubes go, to each their own-again, the Blues Jr, the Peavey Classic 30, et al sound nothing like Voxes, even though they use the same power tubes, and most of the preamp tubes! I guess for Gerald's circuit, those Slovak tubes work best for him... wonder if those tubes are from the old Ei company?!?! They did make some pretty nice tubes back in the 80's-early 90's, before the war in Yugoslavia broke out...

Franc Robert

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Sidney Vicious

I understand what you are saying - I think - but I disagree with the terminology - only semanitics I guess - I do think some amps allow for a crisper style of lead - and an old tweed Champ would not be that amp.

I guess in my mind clean is what he is calling fast.

There's also dirty and fast.

It's all about maintaining the integrity of the guitar's tone and translating what you're playing immediately and literally. There area whole bunch of things inter-acting and they all have to be right or pretty close to right. It's not like there's a prize for second place, your tone ends at the weakest link whatever that may be.

I don't think the price is unreasonable in relative terms. '60s Marshalls are up in that price range, the more desirable '50s Fender amps are right there. I see some dreamer who has a 5F6A in his eBay store for $15k, who's crazy here?

I'm also looking at stuff that's more expensive like Dumbles and Trainwrecks. It's a happy day when you can buy either of those for less than $25k, starting at $30k is more the norm. It is what it is, it costs what it costs. How would you price something that sounds killer and is built to a high standard? Who would be the chump if that amp had a $1500 price tag?

It's easily worth $8k to the guy who puts it in his working studio with the rest of his expensive gear. The amp will probably earn its keep in that context, clients will plug into it because it looks killer. It will stay in the mix because it sounds killer.

[Tonemonkey]

Lots of interesting stuff in his advert...... doesn't mention if it has a Master Volume though.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by backalleyblues

The first person to really think this through for guitar amps was Howard Dumble (Ken Fischer was also into this aspect, amongst others). Gerald is building on those people's efforts, and I'm sure there's a fair amount of difference in the sound because of it.

I'm amazed with what Dumble came up with and when. IMO Gerald Weber paid little attention to Dumble. Dumble had been building exotic amps for a couple decades before Weber as near as I can tell but there are two other things at play, one, Dumble was always very secretive about his designs and two, there was no Internet. No internet means minimal sharing of information. Dumble might as well have been in Siberia as far as Weber was concerned. They share common ground, both based their work on modded and tweaked Fenders. Early Dumbles are mega hot rodded Fender circuits (roughly), early Kendricks are tweaked '50s Fender circuits (literally!).

There was some Trainwreck / Kendrick cross pollination resulting in the Kendrick Climax. It's more a Kendrick and less a Wreck, Weber tried to make it like a '60s Fender with a killer lead channel. It's somewhat of a compromise, a Wreck isn't a compromise. It's a singular expression of one man's vision of what guitar tone should be.

[Mik]

If I owned it'd be worth at least $20,000.

And to paraphrase KBR: playing guitar ain't a track meet.

And, remember the old joke about the old bull and the young bull?

[getbent]

I've always liked Gerald Weber. He is a Texas sized character and he's done some good in this world. I don't have 8K for an amp (right now) so I don't know if I'd want it or not... but give me the Gerald Webers and Mark Bartel and Sampsons and Dumbles and Val Kings of the world... they make it interesting. It will only be pricey for a few, but they'll pay the freight for us to enjoy all the knock off amps...

I wish I could play super fast and choose not to... but, I'm not in that position... but if I could I'd want an amp that could respond.

[Mik]

Gerald Weber's next pitch: a GW signature saggy power supply amp that delivers the sensitive tone shaping feel that worshipped geetar gawds' dreams are made of. For only $16,000.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Mik

Gerald Weber's next pitch: a GW signature saggy power supply amp that delivers the sensitive tone shaping feel that worshipped geetar gawds' dreams are made of. For only $16,000.

C'mon. Let's make this about information rather than misinformation.

[telebluesrocker]

its way too much for an amp. I love my Bassman but i would have to think long and hard before shelling out for its new uk price tag of £1079, let alone 8000 dollars.

[Robbie W]

Originally Posted by ch1naski

THAT is a LOT of cash for an amp. Anybody own one? Or played outta one? Is there really an amplifier worth that kind of money?
http://kendrick-amplifiers.com/Merch...Category_Code=

Insane, ridiculous, and stupid are the first three things that come to my mind.

After that I can't think of much except I could buy 9 or 10 amps for that price that sounded equally as good.

Just my take.

take care,
Robbie

[Robbie W]

Originally Posted by blues for pablo

"All non-polarized capacitors are installed in proper polarity to prevent hum"

ummmm....what?

lz_69 explained the inner/outer foil way to properly connect non polarized caps, but the thing is.....all boutique amplifier makers use this same procedure. It is common pratice among amp techs and builders so it isn't like it is some secret mojo technique that makes this amp any different from the norm.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Robbie W

Insane, ridiculous, and stupid are the first three things that come to my mind.

O.k., let's see you build one.

[lewis]

Fortunately we live in a free country where anyone can build any amp they want AND ask any price they want (and offer any opinion).
My Tele will never be plugged into that amp but based on the very limited contact I've had with Mr. Weber he's always treated me with kindness and courtesy.

[Robbie W]

Originally Posted by muchxs

O.k., let's see you build one.

Uh, that is exactly what I would do if I wanted a hand built boutique amp. For a lot less than the $8000.

Give me a BF Bandmaster or Bassman head any day of the week for $400-$600 and I can make it do anything I want from a tone perspective.

But then again I build almost all of my own effects pedals and maintain my tube amps, too.

So I guess I am lucky I don't "have" to spend $8000 on good tone.

take care,
Robbie

[marshman]

I'm tryin' to imagine wether people think he's gonna actually build more than 2 of these. They look to me like 'concept cars'...a single unit engineered to display every little bit of trickery and high-stakes hot-rodding you've managaed to muster in your 40+ years of amp designing, tweaking and building.

[getbent]

This stuff is very much like the hot rod bidness. Chip Foose and the other guys, Jesse James, Orange County choppers... can a lot of guys do this kind of work for much less...

we know the answer to that. I am thinking of the show about Boyd Coddington's show... of course there are lots of guys who could do that stuff... but, if you watch to the end of the show... sometimes they show the customer...

There are a lot of guys like those guys... more than we might think... they like the buying experience... you know the Jerry Jones type... they'll pay happily and never look back. If 8K is a lot of money to you (it is to me) this aint your thing and Gerald would tell you.... don't waste yours or my time....

I'd bet he'll sell a hundred of them over 3-4 years. By charging so much and keeping the volume low he keeps the customer sat problem to a minimum, he keeps the vibe to the maximum and everyone is happy except for a few guys who post on the internet who actually HELP him... most of the builders have probably had the experience where even bad press gets them sales... the first DeTemple thread made me want one and it was just like this one....

I didn't get in line for one... but, if the stock market ever came back.... maybe.... ha ha!

800K would be nothing to sneeze and beats the daylights out of 150K... think small, live small.

[Dan German]

Originally Posted by marshman

I'm tryin' to imagine wether people think he's gonna actually build more than 2 of these. They look to me like 'concept cars'...a single unit engineered to display every little bit of trickery and high-stakes hot-rodding you've managaed to muster in your 40+ years of amp designing, tweaking and building.

That sounds about right to me. And actually I would compare it to a "halo" car rather than a concept car. Halo cars create an image and are not built with any consideration for affordability. Concept cars are usually non-functional, and say what you want about the GWSA, I'd bet it's pretty darned functional. All it really takes for an amp to be "worth" $8000 is a customer who pays the price and is happy with it. Would I pay it? Not on your life. Would it sound better to me than a nice blackface? Maybe yes, but probably not. I'll leave that to the people (or person) who is willing to part with the money to decide. Hey, it's not like he's overcharging for food or something. It's a totally discretionary item.

However, the ad copy is a bit much:

"Although it is generally agreed that the blackface tone of the mid sixties is the definitive clean tone, that thought prevailed only because I had not designed the GWSA before now."

Sounds just a wee bit messianic to me.

[Robbie W]

Originally Posted by Dan German

However, the ad copy is a bit much:

"Although it is generally agreed that the blackface tone of the mid sixties is the definitive clean tone, that thought prevailed only because I had not designed the GWSA before now."

Sounds just a wee bit messianic to me.

That is my whole take on the situation: a little bit too much "smoke and mirrors"...."secret mojo" stuff for me. But then again Weber is also a guy who spent years telling people PCB's were the death of any tube amp and couldn't compare to good hand wired turret/perfboard construction. Then proceeds to put out an amp with you guessed it.....PCB construction (which turns out after all is "okay" if done right ).

I don't doubt it is a good sounding amp. Probably a very good sounding amp.

But there are a lot of very good sounding amps out there for a lot less money.

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by Robbie W

Weber is also a guy who spent years telling people PCB's were the death of any tube amp and couldn't compare to good hand wired turret/perfboard construction. Then proceeds to put out an amp with you guessed it.....PCB construction (which turns out after all is "okay" if done right ).

It's not PCB, it's a turretboard with flying leads. Who say you can't teach an old dog new tricks? I expect Weber picked up a trick or two by looking at Hoffman layouts. That's where the similarity ends, though. It's Weber's own circuit built on a heavy duty circuit board with killer parts. It's the embodiment of everything Weber has learned in three decades of amp building and it's a masterpiece. I can't believe you guys don't get that. While I don't entirely agree with Weber on many things I can appreciate that this thing encapsulates his entire philosophy of amp building. It's a work of art. It shows zero class to disrespect art.

Originally Posted by Robbie W

But there are a lot of very good sounding amps out there for a lot less money.

Sure. But I'll tell you what... buy one of these now if you can afford it. Then hang on to it for ten years. $8k will seem cheap...

Originally Posted by Robbie W

Uh, that is exactly what I would do if I wanted a hand built boutique amp. For a lot less than the $8000.

Give me a BF Bandmaster or Bassman head any day of the week for $400-$600 and I can make it do anything I want from a tone perspective.

But then again I build almost all of my own effects pedals and maintain my tube amps, too.

Can't get there from here. C'mon... have you tried to buy a pair of Fanes lately? How 'bout that cabinet? Sure, I build my own stuff too. That's why I respect this thing. I can build good stuff on the cheap but I have a clear understanding of just how much work, thought and out and out sweat went into that amp. If you understand what it is you understand why it is. We can all maintain a death grip on our wallets, lotta that goin' around. That makes a long list of amps "too expensive", Two-Rock, Bruno, Komet, Alessandro, Cornford, Roccaforte, Bludo, Brown Note... and on and on. If it's over $500 we'll just diss it on the basis of price. Fine 'n' dandy, vote with your wallet and buy some POS assembled in Viet Nam. Then... when you get a craving for something really special it won't be available. It won't be available because the herd trundled over to Today's Hot Bargain. See... if everyone buys the same $500 amp and no one buys a $3k amp or a $5k amp or an $8k amp then the guys who build such things won't build them anymore. You can hope that Weber will take a hint and lower his prices but don't hold your breath, the man can simply host Amp Camps and live happily ever after. Even in "this economy".

Plug straight into a great amp and find out why you don't need effects pedals.

[Mik]

Originally Posted by muchxs

O.k., let's see you build one.

OK let's see you buy one.

Mik