Open Back vs. Closed Back Speaker Cabinet?

[castpolymer]

I am getting ready to purchase a speaker cabinet. What is the audio / practical difference between open back and closed back?

[Red Paul]

I use to dislike open-back combos, but now I've got one I find it really useful for storing mains lead, pedals, drinks bottle etc in the back!
As for sound/tone, you'll have to make up your own mind!

[Hucklebilly]

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/arc...p/t-78737.html

[Wayne Alexander]

Assuming two identical speakers in two identical cabinets, one open back and one closed back, the open back cabinet will have a chimier, more open and complex sound, will spread the sound around the room a lot more, will have looser bass response (but lots of speakers are designed for this, so that doesn't mean you won't have any bass if you have the right speakers). The closed back cabinet will be tighter, punchier, "simpler" and less complex sounding, less "airy" sounding, and much more directional (less sound at the back and sides). If you want to sound like Angus Young, or the Ramones, for instance, that's a closed back cabinet sound. If you want to sound like Tom Petty, that's an open back cabinet sound for the most part.

To complicate this more, some speakers don't sound right in open back cabs, like the Celestion G12M Greenback, which has too small a magnet structure, the bass gets flubby and the breakup gets trashy (not in a good way) in open back cabs, but in a closed back 2x12 or 4x12 these speakers sound great. Conversely, some speakers don't sound great in closed back cabs. The Celestion Alnico Blue sounds much better in an open back cab - it has plenty of bass response either way, but it has more complexity and opennes and chime in the open back cab, it sounds "simpler" and "constricted" in a closed back cab.

If you want some help with this from the forum, let us know what guitars and amp(s) you have, what kind of music you play and what kind of sound you want. References to specific recordings would be helpful - like "I want to sound like Angus Young on Back in Black" or " I want to sound like Tom Petty on Running Down a Dream" - that sort of thing lets people give you specific recommendations.

[Tonemonkey]

Originally Posted by castpolymer

I am getting ready to purchase a speaker cabinet. What is the audio / practical difference between open back and closed back?

What Amp(s) is the cab for and what drivers will you install?

[castpolymer]

The cabinet will be for a Blackheart Handsome Devil 15W head. I want to buy only the cabinet so I can install my own speaker ( trying to save some $$ ). I plan on using a 12" speaker.

[Jakedog]

Where do you gig? I prefer open back in most situations. Here's why-

On small stages, closed back cabs can give me volume problems. They are quite a bit more directional in most cases, and if you can't get far enough away in front of it on the stage, it can be hard to hear, making you crank too loud. You'll think your fine on stage, when in reality, your killing the audience.

I used to run into this with my Marshall 1936 cab all the time. Sounded amazing, and I loved the tight bottom end, but when I was comfortable with hearing myself in small places, I got lots of volume complaints from the audience, and lots of complaints from bandmates that they couldn't hear me.

I went to an open back cab, and was much happier. It filled up the stage a lot more, and spread a lot better. I could hear myself better, the drummer could hear me fine on cramped tiny stages, and because of that, I was able to play quieter, and not get volume complaints.

You might look into a convertible cab. Several companies make cabs with removeable backs. That way, if you're on a big stage, in a large venue, and want to keep your sound tight and get more projection, you can just close it up. And then open it when you're in a small room and need to fill more space with less volume, and lose the straight as an arrow directionality.

[castpolymer]

I only play at my home or at a friend's homes. I am nowhere good enough to play for folks who have paid money.

[Tonemonkey]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Where do you gig? I prefer open back in most situations. Here's why-

You might look into a convertible cab. Several companies make cabs with removeable backs. That way, if you're on a big stage, in a large venue, and want to keep your sound tight and get more projection, you can just close it up. And then open it when you're in a small room and need to fill more space with less volume, and lose the straight as an arrow directionality.

Mine are all partially open backed except my YGM-3, which I removed the back from to put in a C.Rex....I haven't put it back on yet (20 Screws!!).

Remember, if you buy a closed back and check that you can easily remove the back...(some cab makers make front loaders!!) then you can make different back panels experimenting with the opening at the bottom or top and different sizes; these all affect the sound distribution (more/less bottom end etc). All subject to whether you can be a*sed to do it, of course.

[JohnnyCrash]

Wayne pretty much said everything I was going to say :)

I prefer open for some speakers (and or amps) and closed for others. Depends on the amp, speaker, and intended use.

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by Wayne Alexander

Assuming two identical speakers in two identical cabinets, one open back and one closed back, the open back cabinet will have a chimier, more open and complex sound, will spread the sound around the room a lot more, will have looser bass response (but lots of speakers are designed for this, so that doesn't mean you won't have any bass if you have the right speakers). The closed back cabinet will be tighter, punchier, "simpler" and less complex sounding, less "airy" sounding, and much more directional (less sound at the back and sides). If you want to sound like Angus Young, or the Ramones, for instance, that's a closed back cabinet sound. If you want to sound like Tom Petty, that's an open back cabinet sound for the most part.

Post of the year!
Great references and very helpful.

[6942]

FYI.............

Lopoline make a pretty nice convertible 1x12 cabinet for under $200.
Good luck!

Steve

[castpolymer]

Originally Posted by 6942

FYI.............

Lopoline make a pretty nice convertible 1x12 cabinet for under $200.
Good luck!

Steve

That is exactly the manufacturer I am looking at! Great minds do think alike.

[celeste]

For what it is worth, I prefer closed back in small rooms, they seem to have poor interactions with the room modes less often.

I am talking rooms in a house, because even a small bar is usually larger then any room in a home.

[bosstone]

Originally Posted by Hucklebilly

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/arc...p/t-78737.html

Detuned is great. I have built three of them but there are significant drawbacks as well. Almost nobody builds them. If they do, they are very expensive. They are also huge. My single 12" detuned cab has the internal volume of most 4 X 12" cabs, which makes them, expensive to build, heavy to move and they obviously take up a lot of space. (30" tall X 24" wide X 16" deep). The nice thing is that you only have to buy one speaker and it sounds more like a 4 X 12" cab that a even 2 X 12" cab.

I have a single 10" detuned cab that measures 24" tall X 16" wide X 24" deep. I have a Celestion G10S-50 (10"s 50 watts) and it absolutely blows away a Celestion 12" 80 watt speaker in a Bogner Cube (closed Back single 12" cab) with the same amp.

[bosstone]

Originally Posted by Wayne Alexander

Assuming two identical speakers in two identical cabinets, one open back and one closed back, the open back cabinet will have a chimier, more open and complex sound, will spread the sound around the room a lot more, will have looser bass response (but lots of speakers are designed for this, so that doesn't mean you won't have any bass if you have the right speakers). The closed back cabinet will be tighter, punchier, "simpler" and less complex sounding, less "airy" sounding, and much more directional (less sound at the back and sides). If you want to sound like Angus Young, or the Ramones, for instance, that's a closed back cabinet sound. If you want to sound like Tom Petty, that's an open back cabinet sound for the most part.

To complicate this more, some speakers don't sound right in open back cabs, like the Celestion G12M Greenback, which has too small a magnet structure, the bass gets flubby and the breakup gets trashy (not in a good way) in open back cabs, but in a closed back 2x12 or 4x12 these speakers sound great. Conversely, some speakers don't sound great in closed back cabs. The Celestion Alnico Blue sounds much better in an open back cab - it has plenty of bass response either way, but it has more complexity and opennes and chime in the open back cab, it sounds "simpler" and "constricted" in a closed back cab.

If you want some help with this from the forum, let us know what guitars and amp(s) you have, what kind of music you play and what kind of sound you want. References to specific recordings would be helpful - like "I want to sound like Angus Young on Back in Black" or " I want to sound like Tom Petty on Running Down a Dream" - that sort of thing lets people give you specific recommendations.

I would just add that closed cabs can have significantly more bass almost regardless of speaker if the cab is big enough.

Open back cabs are noticeably louder (more efficient), and the green backs can sound great in old Bluesbreaker 2 X 12" combos.

[WoodyTone]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Where do you gig? I prefer open back in most situations. Here's why-

On small stages, closed back cabs can give me volume problems. They are quite a bit more directional in most cases, and if you can't get far enough away in front of it on the stage, it can be hard to hear, making you crank too loud. You'll think your fine on stage, when in reality, your killing the audience.

I used to run into this with my Marshall 1936 cab all the time. Sounded amazing, and I loved the tight bottom end, but when I was comfortable with hearing myself in small places, I got lots of volume complaints from the audience, and lots of complaints from bandmates that they couldn't hear me.

I went to an open back cab, and was much happier. It filled up the stage a lot more, and spread a lot better. I could hear myself better, the drummer could hear me fine on cramped tiny stages, and because of that, I was able to play quieter, and not get volume complaints.

You might look into a convertible cab. Several companies make cabs with removeable backs. That way, if you're on a big stage, in a large venue, and want to keep your sound tight and get more projection, you can just close it up. And then open it when you're in a small room and need to fill more space with less volume, and lose the straight as an arrow directionality.

Awesome advice, thanks

[jmaul]

one final point - the greater the interior volume of the cab per speaker, the less difference between open and closed back. I have two identical oversized 112's and was playing pretty much identical speakers with one open and one closed. There was very little difference beyond one: the closed back didnt have the audio coming out the back to hit against the wall and rattle things. The closed back was a bit more directional too, but had no problems filling a large room even off axis.

These were Avatar Contemporary cabs and with the BH HD head.

[booncrusher2000]

Originally Posted by castpolymer

I am getting ready to purchase a speaker cabinet. What is the audio / practical difference between open back and closed back?

we have had conversations in the past on this forum about the handsome devil 15 -so i can tell you what i like for it speaker wise ! i like a closed back cab with vintage 30's while some folks don't like the ''midrange honk'' these produce .i do like that nasaly snarl that comes pumping out of them but that's a matter of taste!!! if you get a closed back cabinet then warehouse spkrs. makes a cheap vetran 30 or even a cheap version of a celestion blue called a black&blue (i think anyway) they sound really good, if you plan on loading your own cabinet, but blues sound better in an open back cabinet(my opinion) if you like classic rock go with a closed back cab for tight bass and good mids ( and vintage 30 type speakers) (think humble pie or ac/dc) that all depends on the tone you are after. you could always go with blending spkrs .......check out hd15 on you tube, the guy ''shniffem "" is playing a hd15 through avatar 2x12 1 eminence governor / eminence screaming eagle the blend sounds ""killer "" to me anyway...............good luck

[Stewart Ward]

Originally Posted by castpolymer

I am getting ready to purchase a speaker cabinet. What is the audio / practical difference between open back and closed back?

Simple technical reply!

All speakers have what is known as 'free air resonance' (Rs). In an open back cabinet, there will be a lot of bass output at the the resonant frequency quoted by the maker... usually 75-85Hz for a typical 12" guitar speaker. Big open back Fender combos, and other makes, display silly amounts of bass at this frequency... open E (6th)... because the speaker naturally vibrates heavily at this frequency, even with only small amounts of power driving it.

The same speaker(s) in a closed back cabinet will perform differently. The back on the cabinet seals the air inside the cabinet. So the speaker has to work harder to compress and stretch that trapped air. This places stress on the speaker cone and causes the resonant frequency of the speaker to change. The sound also only comes from the front of the cabinet, making it appear directional, as there's no 'spill' from the back of the cab.

Regardless of the size or shape of the closed back cabinet, the resonance of the speaker will rise by about 2½ notes. This means that most closed back cabinets (even a Marshall 4x12) have a resonance of approximately 120Hz... or open A (5th). Great for rock!!

If you're a blues, country or jazz player, then the closed back cab may exude too much chuggy open A bottom end. You can't turn it off.

If you find that an open back cab is still too bassy for you, then you must replace the speaker with one where the resonance is down at 55Hz... lthat's much ower than open E. The Celestion G12H 30 Heritage does just this job. So does the JBL D120F or the Electrovoice EVM12L. They all have very supple cone suspensions which facilitate this low resonance effect.

Larry Carlton's ES335 tone with the Crusaders is a good example of the EVM12L 55Hz sound. However, for some rock players it may sound a little flat and lifeless.

!0" speaker have a higher Rs around 100-120Hz, but the same effects will apply... just raise the Rs by 2½ notes for a closed cabinet.

Hope this helps.

[Hiker]

My Lady had 4 cats when my first practice amp hit the door-with CLOSED back. Now, I'm with a Lady that likes big dogs like me...

Not knowing much at the time combined with the Punch or Closed sound + Long Haired Cats drove my decision.

[booncrusher2000]

Originally Posted by Hiker

My Lady had 4 cats when my first practice amp hit the door-with CLOSED back. Now, I'm with a Lady that likes big dogs like me...

Not knowing much at the time combined with the Punch or Closed sound + Long Haired Cats drove my decision.

please share some of that stuff man!!!!!! like far out """ groovy"" solid"""" way out man .............like toasty ...........moondoggy -daddy-o

[Dark13579]

I am also getting a bH HD head and getting an avatar cab loaded with either a greenback or a hellatone 60(broken in V30) can't decide yet. I am going for the Hendrix sound so open or closed???

[Joe-Bob]

castpolymer,

If you only play at home, then it's not going to matter much.

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

castpolymer,

If you only play at home, then it's not going to matter much.

Really. That one sentence accurately answers more than fifty percent of OPs on the forum. It should be a sticky: READ THIS FIRST! ...If you're just messing around in the den, does it really matter?

[dreamyguy]

Originally Posted by strat a various

Really. That one sentence accurately answers more than fifty percent of OPs on the forum. It should be a sticky: READ THIS FIRST! ...If you're just messing around in the den, does it really matter?

I can relate to that... but still need some guidance here...

I'm on a budget (of sorts) and about to get my first amp. Long story made short: I've played guitar for 18 years but only made the shift to electric earlier this year. So.

Right now almost any amp would be overkill to my skills, but I do have a pair of ears and can appreciate well played/sounding music. Moreover, I do believe I have a "tone" I'd like to reproduce. Style-wise I'm very flexible, but progressive rock is the thing that make my hair stand.

King Crimson, Gryphon, Camel, P.M.F, Gentle Giant, Focus, early Genesis, Anthony Phillips and East are but a few of the many big names I worship. Änglagård, Solaris and Wobbler are among the most recent progrock bands that have earned my listening time as well.

I do like rock/blues like Blind Faith, Jimi Hendrix, The Bluesbreakers, Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Rush, Deep Purple, etc.

Needless to say, I do enjoy the work of contemporary guitarrists like Vai, and love the work of the Travis Larson Band (you should hear it, start with "Sticks and Stones"!).

But the technical thing...............

Right now I'm not going to grab a powerful head nor combo because I'll be playing mostly at home (...right now). I also want the amp to be valve-driven, so in a few words, I can't afford a decent valve amp. I'm therefore forced to settle on a low-wattage amp that is versatile and has a great tone. Where I come from it can only mean the Blackstar HT-5, a 5W valve amp with loads of features AND tone.

I thought of getting the combo for now and eventually take whatever next step I'd need to. The combo has a 10'' speaker (celestion G10N 40), quite a good speaker in it's class, designed for small combos. But I would like a Celestion Vintage 30, and they are 12''. That forces me to go for the head and combine it with a cab. If I'm going to do that, then I'd go for a good quality cab that already has the Celestion V30. But thinking long-term-wise, a 2x12 is always going to be better than a 1x12, perhaps even better than a 4x12 since I don't have a van nor any ambitions of playing in a stadium.

That brings me to something I haven't mentioned. I CAN squeeze a good 2x12 cab into the budget, but that would be a squeeze for the sake of long term investment, not because I can afford to throw away money. It would most definitely empty my rainy-day piggy! When I'm ready to "grow out" of my sleeping room, it would be great to only need another head and combine it with the existing cab.

Jess... you get the idea of how messy this is getting.

So what would a 5W tube amp which needs more headroom & low-end (characteristics that aren't easy to change with such a low wattage) need: a closed back or an open back 2x12 cab - in the light of the sound I like and mentioned above?

Hope you guys can give me some advice, cos I can't afford to make mistakes on my budget. My wife is already very skeptical about the whole story...

Cheers,
Wallace

[strat a various]

Originally Posted by dreamyguy

I can relate to that... but still need some guidance here...

I'm on a budget (of sorts) and about to get my first amp. Long story made short: I've played guitar for 18 years but only made the shift to electric earlier this year. So.

Right now almost any amp would be overkill to my skills, but I do have a pair of ears and can appreciate well played/sounding music. Moreover, I do believe I have a "tone" I'd like to reproduce. Style-wise I'm very flexible, but progressive rock is the thing that make my hair stand.

King Crimson, Gryphon, Camel, P.M.F, Gentle Giant, Focus, early Genesis, Anthony Phillips and East are but a few of the many big names I worship. Änglagård, Solaris and Wobbler are among the most recent progrock bands that have earned my listening time as well.

I do like rock/blues like Blind Faith, Jimi Hendrix, The Bluesbreakers, Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Rush, Deep Purple, etc.

Needless to say, I do enjoy the work of contemporary guitarrists like Vai, and love the work of the Travis Larson Band (you should hear it, start with "Sticks and Stones"!).

But the technical thing...............

Right now I'm not going to grab a powerful head nor combo because I'll be playing mostly at home (...right now). I also want the amp to be valve-driven, so in a few words, I can't afford a decent valve amp. I'm therefore forced to settle on a low-wattage amp that is versatile and has a great tone. Where I come from it can only mean the Blackstar HT-5, a 5W valve amp with loads of features AND tone.

I thought of getting the combo for now and eventually take whatever next step I'd need to. The combo has a 10'' speaker (celestion G10N 40), quite a good speaker in it's class, designed for small combos. But I would like a Celestion Vintage 30, and they are 12''. That forces me to go for the head and combine it with a cab. If I'm going to do that, then I'd go for a good quality cab that already has the Celestion V30. But thinking long-term-wise, a 2x12 is always going to be better than a 1x12, perhaps even better than a 4x12 since I don't have a van nor any ambitions of playing in a stadium.

That brings me to something I haven't mentioned. I CAN squeeze a good 2x12 cab into the budget, but that would be a squeeze for the sake of long term investment, not because I can afford to throw away money. It would most definitely empty my rainy-day piggy! When I'm ready to "grow out" of my sleeping room, it would be great to only need another head and combine it with the existing cab.

Jess... you get the idea of how messy this is getting.

So what would a 5W tube amp which needs more headroom & low-end (characteristics that aren't easy to change with such a low wattage) need: a closed back or an open back 2x12 cab - in the light of the sound I like and mentioned above?

Hope you guys can give me some advice, cos I can't afford to make mistakes on my budget. My wife is already very skeptical about the whole story...

Cheers,
Wallace

I thought castpolymer was the guy buying the cab.
At any rate, my advice to home hobbyists is to get a convertible cab(or build one), one that has a removable panel so that you can use it as a closed cab or an open back. Problem solved.

[Hiker]

SS Closed amps makes sense for improved bass (tube amps need air flowing).

[imsilly]

I have two random cabinets lying around that I used to use with my amp heads and I have to say that I liked the closed back one more. Both cabinets were filled with modern ceramic speakers and that could be the reason why.

I mostly use combos now, which tend to be open backed and I like how they sound. I agree that greenbacks can suck in open backed cabinets like in combos. I had an AC30 with them and it wasn't a great partnership. Alnico Blues on the other hand I have loved in openback cabinets and the Alnico CTS in my Super Reverb sound lush too.

I'm not knowledgable enough to come up with technical reasons why this is so I usually go with the rule of thumb that when I'm looking for a more complex, vintage sound I go Alnico in Openbacks and when I want a harder, modern sound I go Ceramics in Closedbacks. I won't claim that is always right, but it's better then nothing.

So what the above posters have already hit upon it is the whole rig that will determine your choice between open and closed back. The amp, the speakers, then cabinet size, etc all will interact differently with cabinet itself.

Which amps will you be using, which guitar, which style of music?

[dreamyguy]

Originally Posted by imsilly

I'm not knowledgable enough to come up with technical reasons why this is so I usually go with the rule of thumb that when I'm looking for a more complex, vintage sound I go Alnico in Openbacks and when I want a harder, modern sound I go Ceramics in Closedbacks. I won't claim that is always right, but it's better then nothing.

I guess you got a point there, for I've read in a few other posts stating that celestion blues and golds (alnico-based) don't do well in closed backs. Their character is of a different sort... a hardcore vintage, one could say.

But ceramics do well either way, depending of what one is after.

Originally Posted by imsilly

So what the above posters have already hit upon it is the whole rig that will determine your choice between open and closed back. The amp, the speakers, then cabinet size, etc all will interact differently with cabinet itself.

Which amps will you be using, which guitar, which style of music?

I settled on a Blackstar HT-5 amp. Its features, price and most importantly - the tone - really didn't make it too hard a choice. My only dilemma was if it was going to be a combo or a head. I wanted more "boom" (low end) and headroom, so a cabinet with at least one Celestion Vintage 30 was the only choice in case I went for the head - because I really love the V30 sound.

A guy at a guitar store which had the same setup at home and shared the same music taste helped me make up my mind, so I settled on a 1x12 cabinet, namely a Orange PCC112, which has a closed back and the V30.

My music is a bit of all, excluding metal. Progressive rock is the core, so it can get hard, but that's surely not the focus... Guitar is a Custom Epiphone LP Silverburst Limited Edition, pretty much stock if not for the lowered action. I'm seriously thinking of changing my humbuckers to Gibson Classic '57s, to make justice to the amp/speakers. Upgrading the pots might be a good idea as well, to get more fine-tuning from the pickups. I've read that pots alone can either muddy or improve the tone a big deal.

I didn't get the gear yet, it has just been ordered. Thanks for all who bothered giving their 2 cents

Cheers,
Wallace

[3 Chord]

Push your amp up against the wall and see if you can hear a difference. It's not the same as a closed back but it is somewhat close.

Keep the curtains away from the tubes!

[patrickhowell]

Originally Posted by dreamyguy

A guy at a guitar store which had the same setup at home and shared the same music taste helped me make up my mind, so I settled on a 1x12 cabinet, namely a Orange PCC112, which has a closed back and the V30.

Closed back, Vintage 30, and rear-loader cabinet all add up to make a VERY directional cab... You might want to check out something like the Weber Beam Blocker