To Build or Buy?

[ejb222]

So I haven't spent much time in the Amp section yet...so now is a good a time as any.

I'm really craving a good 30 watt tube amp with reverb. Been playing around enough to have an idea of what to buy...but I've been getting alot of suggestion to buy a kit and build my own.

Now I would consider myself mechanically inclined, but I don't have the slightest clue how to begin to build one of these let alone have the correct tools. The prospect of playing through a hot amp that I built myself sounds great and I always love the opportunity to learn something new...but is this biting off more than I can chew? not to mention buying the first amp that really impresses me in the store provides immediate benefits and a little less patience ;)

So can someone tell me where I can start if I were to really consider building a tube amp from scratch? And maybe one day I'll have pictures of my first amp build on the TDPRI :)

[CancerLeoCam]

Buy a Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue and save yourself the hassle. It's the best Reissue Fender has built.

[ThermionicScott]

I build for the fun of it, but a 30-watt amp with reverb is biting off a lot for your first time. I'd buy a DRRI and if you still want to build something, try a Champ.

- Scott

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by ejb222

Can someone tell me where I can start if I were to really consider building a tube amp from scratch? And maybe one day I'll have pictures of my first amp build on the TDPRI :)

Learn to crawl before you try to walk.

IMHO there are two skills you need, you need to be able to make a clean solder joint without burning parts and you need to be able to go through a layout drawing and make it a reality.

Either way the key ingredient is patience. I've been at this for decades, there are still times when I'd just as soon bounce the amp off a wall.

Start with something simple. A tweed Champ is simple but the chassis is very small and cramped. Maybe I should circle the wagons with the people I work with. I've had an idea for a simple circuit inside a roomy chassis. Whatever... I can see a beginner committing $300 to a first project. Get through that, then you'll know. If it turns out great and you're excited about another then you're ready and then you'll know.

Originally Posted by ejb222

I'm really craving a good 30 watt tube amp with reverb.

That's your second project.

For everyone hyping the DRRI... stick a DRRI chassis next to a genuine '60s Deluxe Reverb chassis if you get a chance. The DRRI is a cosmetic copy of the original. You can still get an early '70s Deluxe Reverb for the same $950 the reissue goes for. A Headstrong goes for a little over $2k and vintage Deluxe Reverbs go as high as $3k on a good day. Or you can build something on par with a $1k silverface down there at that $1k mark. IMHO any of the point to point alternatives leave the DRRI in the dust. If you're talking a point to point amp built with premium parts, premium speakers, boutique iron and NOS tubes that's about as good as it gets. $1k buys some nice parts.

[studio1087]

I truly respect your ambition but I would buy an amp.

I've built a couple "ok" cabinets and every time that I build a cabinet, it winds up costing 2.5 times what I had planned and the result is just "ok".

The guys who have built 15 or 25 units have the tools and they've learned from many mistakes. The guys who have built 50+ can probably clip though the process with agility and accuracy. The first few are a b*tch. (Pardon me).

I've also built a Tele from a kit. The result was just "ok" and the education was humbling. It was a great father/son project with my boys.

The next time that I get the home build bug, I'm going to buy a simple pedal kit and have at it at the kitchen table during the evenings.

John

[muchxs]

Originally Posted by studio1087

I've built a couple "ok" cabinets and every time that I build a cabinet, it winds up costing 2.5 times what I had planned and the result is just "ok".

If I go way back my first couple cabinets were awful. They were so bad I didn't attempt another for 10 years.

The first couple when I re-started were pretty good. They cost me nothing besides some scrap wood and a couple hours of my time.

I couldn't tell you how many I've built since then because I just don't know. A lot. They cost me more now because I buy premium material. How can I put this without sounding arrogant? "Just o.k." disappeared in the rear view mirror a long time ago.

Like anything else... pick a starting point, work from there and keep at it. When I first started playing guitar chords were "impossible". Barre chords were a struggle but they couldn't be "impossible", after all Johnny Ramone played nothing but barre chords.

Get it?

[ejb222]

Thanks for all the advice. There's alot to digest. I think I'm gonna check out the Champ builds...hoping that I'm not going to kick myself in the butt for wasting $300 and 30 hours building a crappy amp. But like with anything else in life....sometimes you have to take a risk.

But I really appreciate the advice....so what is the difference between Point to Point and whatever else that is out there?

[PhatTele]

My advice (for both guitars and amps) is don't build something thinking you're going to save money by doing so. Invariably, with a kit or scratch build, you'll end up paying just about as much as you would for a new guitar or amp. Yes...I know there are ways to cut corners to save money by doing some things yourself. However, if you're a novice to the whole process, the end cost for the first few projects is not going to be cheap.

So, if you're going to build an amp, pick something that is relatively scarce in the market. For instance, I wouldn't build a Champ only because a used silverface version is essentially the same thing and can be had for under $300 easy...especially in this market. I wouldn't build a Princeton Reverb or a Deluxe Reverb for the same reason. They're either not that scarce or the reissue versions are actually decent amps at decent money (especially used). Tweed Deluxe kits are nice and easy to source. The larger tweed Fenders (Bandmaster, Super, Pro) also make great club amps and are not hard to find as kits either. The 18Watt Marshall (1x12 or 2x10 combo) is a fantastic amp and kits (along with support) can be found easily.

A lot of folks give the "crawl before you walk" advice. I concur, but I also think it's worth it to start with something a little larger than a Champ or Tweed Princeton. So, my two cents...I'd recommend the Tweed Deluxe or 18Watt Marshall...simple to build but, in the end, they will grow with you where a Champ you might out grow fairly quickly.

[ejb222]

Yeah, I've really started to search this out and it can be rather pricey. I don't think the difference of $100 or so is enough to disuade me from one option or another. But more of the prospect of spending money on something and screwing it up...which is a definite possiblity :)

But I have this problem, every amp that I really like is either spoken for(someone elses) or too expensive. Or I find a the same amp for sale but it's a lemon. Maybe I need a bit more patience and hopefully I will stumble accross the perfect mate for my Tele.

But thanks for the advice...it helps me keep a level head :)

[4 Strings]

I agree and disagree with most of the previous posts. And as you propably already know, muchxs, scotts and the other guys are all very knowledgeable so it is a good advice to listen to them.

I definitiely wouldn't recommend anybody to build a 30 w amp with reverb as a first project.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to keep someone who's interested and eager to learn from getting into DIY amp building. It isn't all that easy for sure, but if you're reasonably handy it certainly isn't all that hard either! And when you get bogged down there's always the TDPRI where you have all the help you'll need to get from that heap of components to a good sounding made by yourself toob amp.

Before going any further, I'd recommend that you read up very carefully on the safety aspects of working with tube amps. If you do not have the basic electronics skills, this is where you should start. There should be loads of info on the Internet, google "Aiken tech info" for example and you'll have a little teaser to start with.

Once again, you've got to know how to handle the risks involved! The good way to learn this is to listen to someone who's already done the mistakes. The not so good way to learn is to make the mistakes yourself. In the best case it only costs you an awful lot of money when you fry your expensive parts. In the worst case you'll never have to worry about money again and your relatives are left with a bunch of components which they do not know what to do with...

That said, where was I? Well, DIY:ing very rarely works as a way to save money, at least it never did for me. If cutting costs is your primary goal then search the ads for used amps. But if you're ready to pay about as much or a bit more than buying the stuff off the used market, then DIY:ing is a great way to acquire new skills (and which is funnier, learning golf, getting into the mesmerizing world of collecting stamps or getting into DIY amp building? Sorry, never mind that...) and to tailor your amps to your liking.

Most of all, economics and all else aside, it is a very rewarding hobby.

I guess I got lost again... My very own, personal opinion is that you should start with a Tweed Champ kit. They're easy to build, they do not cost a fortune (which is good in the unlikely event of a total breakdown), they sound great, moreover every step along the way to a finished (Ch)amp will be useful in future amp building projects, and most of all, everyone should have a bl00dy Champ in his arsenal!!! I swear that when you finish that 30-w-with-reverb amp in a few years, you'll still be using the Champ every bit as much as before. It is a classic not only because it is easy to build but most of all beacuse it is a great sounding little amp.

So, don't rush but take one step at a time and be sure to learn along the way. But if you're ready to do that, then you definitely should try to build your own. It may all sound very complicated when explained like this, but once you know how to handle the safety aspects then the rest will be manageable!

Good luck!

EDIT: Have a look here too, you might find it useful: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-centr...amp-plans.html

[ThermionicScott]

Whoa, you sure about lumping me in with the "knowledgable" folks?

Great post though -- FWIW, my 5-watt 5F2A gets a lot of play around the house, and I don't regret building it at all. Even with that and a 5E7 clone under my belt, I'm still a little daunted by the prospect of a DR clone build. Lookit that layout!



Someday I'll build one, though. I've got a 5F8A clone to do first.

- Scott

[11 Gauge]

Well, just to add maybe a glimmer of hope...

After a long hiatus of playing with amp guts, I replaced the PCB in a DRRI with a Hoffman turretboard, around '01 or so. It wasn't a simple swap, as the bias pot location was different, as were the vibrato and reverb jacks (and the RI had a PCB pair of them that had to be replaced). Also, Fender changed the filter cap setup, so that required some reworking. The last PITA thing that I still remember is that I had to ream the chassis for the full size pots...

I took my time with the rebuild, and it came out a success - reverb, vibrato, all functional. I had to swap a resistor or two to get the tubes to bias correctly, but no biggie.

So there is the possibility of success even with an intermediate project - you just have to do more planning, and potentially more troubleshooting, and always a good measure of reverse engineering.

The three most important things to have are patience, creativity (for workarounds), and common sense.

There is no such thing as a complete tool set for amp building - I end up augmenting mine all the time. Harbor Freight has become my best friend in the process.

Most folks mention the value of money - don't ever forget the value of TIME. Even simple builds take a bit of time, and you have to be able to concentrate. So that means that other family members have to respect your need for time alone, unless you're a major multitasker. If time is precious, buy a complete amp and stick with a less time intensive hobby.

Whatever you do, have fun doing it, and play it safe!

[ejb222]

Thanks 4 Strings,

I think you hit the nail right on the head for me.

So a Fender Champ build sounds actually perfect. Actually probably make a good father son build. (w/ my father...don't have kids yet, unless you count my 32yo roomie)

Thanks to all.

[Tele_MEL]

Build a Champ!

I've got a Blues Jr. and built a 5F2A circuit as a little head from cobbled parts ( chassis, tubes. transformers.. - point to point ).

I love the little champ. .. and now regularly sit the Champ Head on the Blues Jr. just to utilize it's 12" speaker.

I'm currently listing out and procuring the parts to build a AA764 circuit - BF Vibro Champ.. this time with a turret board.

Great fun. and you end up with really good sounding amps to boot!

Then.. on to a 5E3 !

[4 Strings]

Originally Posted by ejb222

Thanks 4 Strings,

I think you hit the nail right on the head for me.

So a Fender Champ build sounds actually perfect. Actually probably make a good father son build. (w/ my father...don't have kids yet, unless you count my 32yo roomie)

Thanks to all.

Great!

If I was to build another Champ and wasn't aiming for a true to the original clone I would build mine with a Tweed Princeton size output transformer and a 10" speaker for a little more umph. Using the larger 10" speaker means that you have to use a slightly larger (deeper) cab, but any good supplier of cabs should be able to offer that, perhaps with a little extra $$$. Other than that I would build it true to the 5F1 circuit though.

Scott S, there's no way out now. In my eyes, you're definitely in the knowledgeable folks' camp! (I'm gearing up to finish my 5E7M so I need to keep everybody happy for when I get stuck and need some help...)