Crate V33 vs V18 (is my V18 a dud?)

[Alexandre]

Hi all,

Sorry for starting another one of those, but I didn't want to add a question to the 5+ page thread that already exist

I purchased a V33-212 a few weeks ago and I really love it, for the price (about 200$ for a new one). So... I decided to buy the V18-212 as well.

Well, as much as I like the V33, I find the V18 much much darker with an insane amount of bass on it. It's supposed to have the same tubes (ok 2 less, but still the same tubes) as the V33, so why on earth am I not getting a similar sound on it (I have to leave the bass level at 0 to match the sound of my V33 when bass is at 7 or 8).

Could by V18 be a dud, is it is just the way this amp is? (cause I've seen other complain about the same issue...) I called their tech support and they had no idea, they ask that I return it to the store to compare it with another one (alas it was the last one...).

This brings me to... should I just return it, or attempt to mod it to get something decent?? If so, what are the "must" mods to make to turn this amp into a great amp?

Many thanks!

Alex

[Alexandre]

Ok, played with both amps a bit more. There is a "Boost" switch on the V33 which the V18 does not have. When the Boost is on, the amps sounds much much better... without it, I actually get the same muddy type of sound as the V18.

Is there a way to "boost" the V18, or make some minor modifications to it which would make it worth keeping?

[Bill Ashton]

Look in the owners manual that came with your amps, while there is not a schematic per-se, there is a "functional" diagram that describes the signal path. You may find a solution there.

Cheers!

[bdgregory]

there are simple mods that can be performed to the V18 and will lighten it up a bit. Tube changes are easy, but probably don't address the overwhelming bass. There is a simple capacitor and/or resistor swap that does. To do this you'll need some skill with a soldering iron or take it to a tech . . . the cost of which in my opinion turns a good deal into a not so good deal. Read through the V18 thread for discussion on the mods I'm referring to.

[Singin' Dave]

There are a ton of mods floating out there about the V18, many quite simple for a tech.

My buddy's V18 cleared up considerably with a preamp tube and speaker swap. The speaker we settled on was a Weber Sig 12s. We tried a bunch of preamp tube variations in V1 and V2 (even a 12at7 in V3) and what we settled on suprised us but really helped his amp. It was V1: Sylvania 12AU7 V2: RCA 12AY7 V3: 12ax7 of unknown origin.

[studio1087]

I'm a simpleton. I have one of these on my pedalboard....I bought it long ago to go with an Epi Valve Junior and now I use it with the V18.....



John

[popthree]

i think all the v18's are 'duds' without some tweaks. if you want turnkey, don't buy the amp. i owned one for about 2 weeks. i see the potential, but i just didn't want to jack with it. i'd return it.

[markw51]

All the V18's sound like that. It is a well made but poorly designed amp. If you don't like it the way it is, return it while you can, unless you are experienced with circuit board and vacuum tube electronics. Mine now sounds great after a few mods but I know how to do that stuff and to me it was fun and educational. For you, I'd guess probably not.

[nomadh]

Lots of mods but the problem then is you loose the 5 yr warranty. This is a HUGE feature for me specially on something as sensitive as a low end tube amp (from crate). MAybe call your local authorized repair place. See if they will "condone" the change and back you with crate if something else goes wrong. Or maybe for a few bucks someone there will do it and warranty it. The safe answer is the graphic eq.

[Maggot]

There are tons of mods you can do. However, I just replaced the 12AX7 in the V1 spot with a 12AU7/ECC82. I also replaced the other preamp tubes with Tung-Sols. Now the amp is much brighter, Also, the tone controls are interactive in such a way, that if you really crank the treble and mids, the bass is much less present.

I'd say that with the tube replacement, that cost all of $50, I can now control the bass, and I play a Les Paul copy.

[Alexandre]

In regards to preamp tubes 12ay7, is there a specific bran or spec that I should be looking for?

[guitback]

Wow, I have a V16 I've been using for about 9 or 10 mos. I did change the first pre-amp tube to a 12AU7 and that REALLY helped the insane amount of overdrive the amp can make. I haven't had any other noticeable issues though. What type of guitar do you play with it? I have been building amps and making guitars for years but I could not resist the $200 price for a really good-sounding (and lightweight) amp for the country band I play in. It does respond noticably to different tubes. Come to think of it though, mine is a made in USA model (Palomino). I don't even know if that makes a difference in the way they are voiced.

[Alexandre]

I hear that the V18 and the Palomino are completely different beasts (but I really do not know myself). I play this amp with a US Series Strat and a US deluxe ash Tele.

I'd like to swap the pre amp tube... should I only change the first, or all of them?

Also, any idea if I can change the El84 tube for 6L6s? What effect would this do? Has anyone tried?

Cheers

[DaBender]

I've said it before, once again - the V18 is an AWESOME harp amp!! I talked to my harp player yesterday, and he was raving about it again, and this guy can get good tone out of anything.

[bdgregory]

Originally Posted by Alexandre

I'd like to swap the pre amp tube... should I only change the first, or all of them?

Also, any idea if I can change the El84 tube for 6L6s? What effect would this do? Has anyone tried?

Cheers

as for preamp tubes, I would start with the first one. The next move if you still want to tame it more would be V3 which is a phase inverter - try a 12AT7 there.

As for power tubes, I wouldn't mess with those at this point, and 6L6's absolutely can't interchange - first, they don't fit the socket. The only tubes you can try as subs are different brands of EL84's, 7189s which are beefed up EL84's, and there is a Russian tube I don;t recall the designation which is also the same socket and spec. If I were you I would try a different speaker before swapping power tubes. After that, if you really want to go to the next step, find some premium NOS EL84s.

[patrickhowell]

Originally Posted by nomadh

Lots of mods but the problem then is you loose the 5 yr warranty. This is a HUGE feature for me specially on something as sensitive as a low end tube amp (from crate). MAybe call your local authorized repair place. See if they will "condone" the change and back you with crate if something else goes wrong. Or maybe for a few bucks someone there will do it and warranty it. The safe answer is the graphic eq.

I don't think that losing the warranty is a huge deal when an amp is under $200 new... It will sound much better modified, and I think that's worth it.

[mralmostpopular]

First off, new to the forum: Hello.

Second, you have to remember that the v18 not only because the set-up is a little different, but also because the speaker is different (assuming you got the 1x12). The v33 has higher wattage speakers to handle the higher output (i.e. they will have a different sound). Also, the v-series are designed for more for a harder rock sound, so they tend to be darker. That does NOT mean that you can't change that. In fact, Crate has one of the best customer service departments I've ever dealt with. If you give them a call, they will be able to make some suggestions. They may even pay for replacement tubes (they did that for me, twice).

What I would suggest is to look into some higher end tubes (cheaper fix), and ultimately look into something different for the speaker. The Crates are great for modding, and Crate basically holds the belief that as long as you don't do anything that would permanently change the circuitry of the amp, then there's no reason to void the warranty. They understand that you want to make it your own. That's why they include a basic schematic in the back of the manual.

Give them a call and let them know what you want to do. They'll be more than happy to help.

[Alexandre]

i actually have the 2x12 in my V18.

Tried calling Crate's Tech support a few days back and the guy said he had no idea and I should bring it back to the store to compare with another one... not so helpful in my case.

Anyway, I was able to get my hands on a 12AT7 (couldn't find an 12AY7), but i'll try it to see what changes this will make. Now I just have to figure out which one is V1 !

Cheers

[Alexandre]

Well, the 12AT7 in V1 made a HUGE difference. Bass is back to normal and the sound is super clean, to the point that it no longer breaks... at all!! But it's all good since I can use my V33 for the distortion when I need it. I mostly wanted this amp for quieter practice sessions.

Next step, changing the reverb tank!

[mralmostpopular]

Ah yes, I should've mentioned trying the AT7. I figured that if you got the right person in tech support they'd authorize a tube change for free. There are like 5 people there, and 4 of them know what they're talking about. I've talked with each at least twice. If you ever have to call back, ask if they'll let you speak with Rebecca. She has a lot of good suggestions. She helped reduce the hiss I had on the clean channel, and Crate paid for me to get different tubes put in when I wanted to change the tone a bit. Generally, they go out of their way to make their customers happy, which is really out of character for a big company. I think it's mostly because they had such a bad reputation for so long, that they've learned that if they can keep their customers happy, they'll recommend the amps. The V33s and the V18s have been selling like hot-cakes, and Crate actually can't seem to keep up with demand. They're definitely not the quality of the much more expensive amps, but they beat out anything else in the price range.

[motifr]

as a real AC30 Vox, part for part. Also did Marshall plexi mods. The sound is real nice at low volume. But I did not do the 12au7 replacement. Ill keep you posted guys!