Silverface Deluxe Reverb...one better than another?

markophonic · February 13th, 2004, 10:41 AM

Is there a major difference between silverface deluxe reverbs from the 70's?

Is there a major difference between a '70 and a '75?

Is there a year that is more preferable than another?

stantheman · February 13th, 2004, 11:35 AM

don't sweat it, if you really have to "Blackface Mod"
it's elementary BUT I personally see no need whatsoever
to me it's just being anal. You're working with one of the greatest if not THE GREATEST TUBE of the all, the fabulous 6V6. And when that thang is on "4" she's gonna sing you a tune you won't forget. A hand wired
Deluxe is one of the "Grail Amps".

Dr. Bill · February 13th, 2004, 11:57 AM

The '70 will have a wood cab with a screwed in baffle board, while the '75 will have a particle-board cab with the baffle dadoed in. I much prefer the earlier cabs--they're lighter and the baffles can be replaced easily if necessary. Hope this helps.

stantheman · February 13th, 2004, 12:23 PM

It's a Deluxe Reverb what's it gonna be 5-7# lighter?
His savings on a later year is gonna be 3-4 hundred.
And it's still gonna sound great, a WORLD better than
the current offering for sure.
JMO (no flame intended, respect)

Tim Swartz · February 13th, 2004, 01:40 PM

At some point in the mid-late '70s they got a pull-boost function that sounds pretty crappy. Not a show stopper if the price is right.

Dr. Bill · February 13th, 2004, 03:29 PM

I rather doubt that the difference between a '70 and a '75 SFDR is going to be $300-400. My guess is that both amps will go for roughly similar figures.

Silverface · February 13th, 2004, 04:56 PM

The price difference will not be that much, but the fact is there's really no sonic difference between BF and & *any* SF DR's, even the pull-boost models. "Blackfacing" a SFDR is a waste of money - invest in a cap job, good tubes and maybe a speaker change and they all sound pretty much the same (not the RI's however). BF's are for collectors, and the best buys are the pull-boost models. Sure, the bafles are different - but they make no identifiable difference in the sound. Proper amp setup is far, far mor critical with DR's than the minor design differences.

On pull-boost models, just don't pull the knob and you're in great shape!

bgwatts · February 13th, 2004, 05:17 PM

Just scored a sweet sf DeLuxe.Did a side by side comparison to a real live 65 BF.Mine is the SF with the pull/boost.The boost is a waste.But my Silverface actually sounded BETTER.Fatter ,Fuller.And the BF is EXTREMELY well maintained by a veteran pro.

maxvintage · February 13th, 2004, 06:36 PM

Well I'll gently disagree. I have a 69 drip edge silverface DR I really love--I agree they are all good amps. But I A/B'ed it with a blackface 65 dr and the blackface sounded noticeably better--just not enough better to justify the extra dough to my cheap self.

As i understand it the silverfaces were changed to A; stay clean longer, and B: compensate for sloppy wiring. I've read that the transformers on the blackfaces were different. From what i have heard, blackface amps do tend to sound better, but as i said, for me it was not enough better to justify the way higher cost

A good cap job and good speaker, good tubes will make a bigger difference than "blackfacing" the circuit, IMHO

CC · February 13th, 2004, 08:13 PM

Gently putting my own .02 in as well...

Blackface DR's from the 60's and silverface DR's built in the 70's sound different to my ears. The circuit changed over the years and so did their sound. Hard to say how big of a sound difference, because everyone hears differently. But if you take a '64 DR and compare it to a late 70's, that would be the biggest difference if any.

Which year is more preferable really depends on a person's tastes. I prefer blackfaces...best one's I heard belong to 2 friends of mine ('64 and '66).

FWIW...I also feel different cabinet construction (pine, plywood, particle board) will effect sound.

Edit: In regards to silverfaces, I prefer the earlier versions w/out the pull "boost" function.

bgwatts · February 13th, 2004, 09:21 PM

"Better" sound is definitly in the ear of the beholder.
You mentioned that the SF changes were to help the clean sound hang on longer.I didn't know that,but it makes sense because thats the sound I use the most,so naturaly I thought my amp sounded better.But I'm guessing the difference in marginal and probably changes with speakers,tubes ,caps,guitars.Think its possible to get a combination of the compents to make the BF the clean one and theSF the "dirty" one,or is that difference just in the design of the two amps more"genetic".?

jjmantele · February 14th, 2004, 12:14 AM

They had some circuit changes during the early 70's but not many. The phase inverter input cap and the phase inverter plate and grid-to-tail resistors are about it from 70-75. My '71 had the .01 PI input cap which is not the BF=.001. However it had the "BF" resistor values. I changed the PI input cap to the .001 which would have reduced some bass (perhaps subsonic anyway) but I also switched from the crappy stock Oxford speaker to a Weber P12n. Woo hoo!

http://www.geocities.com/jjsant/SFDR.html

Many people lie/fudge/are confused on the production year of the SFDR they are selling. Here are some cosmetic differences from 1970-75:

1970
Says "Amp" on front of face plate under word "reverb"
stock 2 prong power cord
stock bare shield RCA reverb cables
"tail logo"

1975
No "Amp"
stock 3 prong
Common plastic coated RCA reverb cable
no tail under logo

Pull boost came out in June 1977 on SFDR's and it is a thick line to cross in "vintage" status and thus value. Can't comment on whether leaving it turned off is the same as a 1976.

BobB · February 14th, 2004, 05:51 PM

Lot's of good stuff here.

I did a lot of research before getting my 1976 SFDR. I also A/B'd it against a well maintained 66 BFDR.

SFDR do not have particle board cabinets... its plywood. the baffle is particle board.

I had mine blackfaced. I heard a difference and the $55-60 it cost me was nothing and I had the amp open for a cap job anyhow. IMO, the BF tone circuit is not as trebly as the SF. The amp distortion is also smoother IMO.

The key to any old amp is how well it is maintained..... new vs. old caps, type and condition of tubes. and how you have it biased. Speaker also makes a big choice.

I love the SFDR. It's a great value and you can tweak with speakers and tubes to get the tone and vibe you want. Don't worry about the pull boost on a post 1977. This can be easily disconnected.

Buy a good condition amp. Try it out. If you like it leave it alone.... you can always up grade things as you move forward.... nice thing about PTP.

Bob

February 13th, 2004, 10:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
markophonic Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Age: 47 Posts: 986 1 Photos	Silverface Deluxe Reverb...one better than another? Is there a major difference between silverface deluxe reverbs from the 70's? Is there a major difference between a '70 and a '75? Is there a year that is more preferable than another? __________________ http://www.brianvanderark.com/

February 13th, 2004, 11:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
stantheman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: White Mountains Posts: 5,071	Mark, as long as it's PTP hand wired don't sweat it, if you really have to "Blackface Mod" it's elementary BUT I personally see no need whatsoever to me it's just being anal. You're working with one of the greatest if not THE GREATEST TUBE of the all, the fabulous 6V6. And when that thang is on "4" she's gonna sing you a tune you won't forget. A hand wired Deluxe is one of the "Grail Amps". __________________ Somebody Loan Me A Dime

February 13th, 2004, 11:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dr. Bill TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 25	'70 v. '75 Deluxe Reverb The '70 will have a wood cab with a screwed in baffle board, while the '75 will have a particle-board cab with the baffle dadoed in. I much prefer the earlier cabs--they're lighter and the baffles can be replaced easily if necessary. Hope this helps.

February 13th, 2004, 12:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
stantheman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: White Mountains Posts: 5,071	Yeah but Doc It's a Deluxe Reverb what's it gonna be 5-7# lighter? His savings on a later year is gonna be 3-4 hundred. And it's still gonna sound great, a WORLD better than the current offering for sure. JMO (no flame intended, respect) __________________ Somebody Loan Me A Dime

February 13th, 2004, 03:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dr. Bill TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 25	Price Diff . . . I rather doubt that the difference between a '70 and a '75 SFDR is going to be $300-400. My guess is that both amps will go for roughly similar figures.

February 13th, 2004, 01:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,904	At some point in the mid-late '70s they got a pull-boost function that sounds pretty crappy. Not a show stopper if the price is right.

February 13th, 2004, 04:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
Silverface Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hermosa Beach CA Age: 56 Posts: 1,934	The price difference will not be that much, but the fact is there's really no sonic difference between BF and & any SF DR's, even the pull-boost models. "Blackfacing" a SFDR is a waste of money - invest in a cap job, good tubes and maybe a speaker change and they all sound pretty much the same (not the RI's however). BF's are for collectors, and the best buys are the pull-boost models. Sure, the bafles are different - but they make no identifiable difference in the sound. Proper amp setup is far, far mor critical with DR's than the minor design differences. On pull-boost models, just don't pull the knob and you're in great shape! __________________ “No Chops – Great Tone” ©

February 13th, 2004, 05:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
bgwatts Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 226	must agree Just scored a sweet sf DeLuxe.Did a side by side comparison to a real live 65 BF.Mine is the SF with the pull/boost.The boost is a waste.But my Silverface actually sounded BETTER.Fatter ,Fuller.And the BF is EXTREMELY well maintained by a veteran pro.

February 13th, 2004, 06:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
maxvintage Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 49 Posts: 427	Well I'll gently disagree. I have a 69 drip edge silverface DR I really love--I agree they are all good amps. But I A/B'ed it with a blackface 65 dr and the blackface sounded noticeably better--just not enough better to justify the extra dough to my cheap self. As i understand it the silverfaces were changed to A; stay clean longer, and B: compensate for sloppy wiring. I've read that the transformers on the blackfaces were different. From what i have heard, blackface amps do tend to sound better, but as i said, for me it was not enough better to justify the way higher cost A good cap job and good speaker, good tubes will make a bigger difference than "blackfacing" the circuit, IMHO

February 13th, 2004, 08:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
CC Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Surfland USA, Hawaii Posts: 160	Gently putting my own .02 in as well... Blackface DR's from the 60's and silverface DR's built in the 70's sound different to my ears. The circuit changed over the years and so did their sound. Hard to say how big of a sound difference, because everyone hears differently. But if you take a '64 DR and compare it to a late 70's, that would be the biggest difference if any. Which year is more preferable really depends on a person's tastes. I prefer blackfaces...best one's I heard belong to 2 friends of mine ('64 and '66). FWIW...I also feel different cabinet construction (pine, plywood, particle board) will effect sound. Edit: In regards to silverfaces, I prefer the earlier versions w/out the pull "boost" function.

February 13th, 2004, 09:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
bgwatts Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 226	must agree with the man who disagree's with me. "Better" sound is definitly in the ear of the beholder. You mentioned that the SF changes were to help the clean sound hang on longer.I didn't know that,but it makes sense because thats the sound I use the most,so naturaly I thought my amp sounded better.But I'm guessing the difference in marginal and probably changes with speakers,tubes ,caps,guitars.Think its possible to get a combination of the compents to make the BF the clean one and theSF the "dirty" one,or is that difference just in the design of the two amps more"genetic".?

February 14th, 2004, 12:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
jjmantele Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 851	70's SFDR's They had some circuit changes during the early 70's but not many. The phase inverter input cap and the phase inverter plate and grid-to-tail resistors are about it from 70-75. My '71 had the .01 PI input cap which is not the BF=.001. However it had the "BF" resistor values. I changed the PI input cap to the .001 which would have reduced some bass (perhaps subsonic anyway) but I also switched from the crappy stock Oxford speaker to a Weber P12n. Woo hoo! http://www.geocities.com/jjsant/SFDR.html Many people lie/fudge/are confused on the production year of the SFDR they are selling. Here are some cosmetic differences from 1970-75: 1970 Says "Amp" on front of face plate under word "reverb" stock 2 prong power cord stock bare shield RCA reverb cables "tail logo" 1975 No "Amp" stock 3 prong Common plastic coated RCA reverb cable no tail under logo Pull boost came out in June 1977 on SFDR's and it is a thick line to cross in "vintage" status and thus value. Can't comment on whether leaving it turned off is the same as a 1976. __________________ JJman If it says "Vintage" on it -it isn't.

February 14th, 2004, 05:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
BobB TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 72	More info..... Lot's of good stuff here. I did a lot of research before getting my 1976 SFDR. I also A/B'd it against a well maintained 66 BFDR. SFDR do not have particle board cabinets... its plywood. the baffle is particle board. I had mine blackfaced. I heard a difference and the $55-60 it cost me was nothing and I had the amp open for a cap job anyhow. IMO, the BF tone circuit is not as trebly as the SF. The amp distortion is also smoother IMO. The key to any old amp is how well it is maintained..... new vs. old caps, type and condition of tubes. and how you have it biased. Speaker also makes a big choice. I love the SFDR. It's a great value and you can tweak with speakers and tubes to get the tone and vibe you want. Don't worry about the pull boost on a post 1977. This can be easily disconnected. Buy a good condition amp. Try it out. If you like it leave it alone.... you can always up grade things as you move forward.... nice thing about PTP. Bob