I know this is EXTREMELY weird,but what do you think...

usastrat · February 10th, 2004, 08:08 PM

Hey guys,
I know this is quite a... well, stupid opinion, but I kinda' don't fully understand paying A LOT more money for a nice vintage tube amp (66' Bassman) when my old Kramer ss amp w/ pcb chasis can make (believe it or not) almost identical tone and sounds. My 1966 Fender Bassman is a lot louder w/ more bottom end, but other than that very similiar (tone wise). It's really starting to worry me,I've been overdriving it w/ a tube screamer, and playing it clean, but simply am not satisfied.

-STUPID QUESTION, but are BF Fender Bassman, good amps?? What are your opinions of them?
-Do you think it's the lack of a cap and transistor job, or the crappy Kramer Focus guitar pickups, the old and beat-up Groove Tubes, or simply b/c it might be one of those dull and bad sounding amps out of the vintage bunch, or b/c I just don't have a good ear for tone?? :(
-Are there any sound clips on the web, so I can compare???

thanks guys, once again!

Lance · February 10th, 2004, 08:16 PM

I've got a '66 bassman...and a matching 2x12 cab. Truely an amazing amp. It's not too loud and gets a great Marshally grind when cranked. For a strat, it's my favorite amp.

Can't speak to the Kramer.

5965 · February 10th, 2004, 10:32 PM

There's really no way to diagnose this over the internet, and, yes, it could be the guitar. Specific info about what you don't like might help someone to comment further.

Some guitars don't sound good with some amps. Even with a normally good guitar, having the strings too low can kill the tone. If you can run another guitar through it, that'd be a place to start. If not, perhaps you can run your guitar through another old Fender. Basically, all BF Fenders share pretty much the same tone- and that's by design.

Ampwise, the question would be did it ever do what you want. If not, picking up a new 12AX7 to try in the preamp might be a place to start. If the amp isn't making rude noises or double-noting, speakers and old preamp tubes would be the likely suspects.

The BF Bassman is a great amp when it's working right. Make sure you try both channels (some prefer each one) and both sets of inputs, and try killing the Bright switch if it sounds thin.

e-merlin · February 11th, 2004, 12:25 AM

Sure, the Bassman is a great amp. But...is it what you want to hear? It might not be a great amp for you if it doesn't give you the sound you want at the levels you need. Not everyone's idea of great tone is the same. Some people need a good clean sound at loud levels. Some need really heavy distortion at low levels. Some need something in between. Perhaps everyone else's expectations have you worried that you shouldn't like your Kramer amp as much as you do. I should mention that I AM a tube amp fan, but there are some great SS amps out there, especially if heavy distortion is your thang!

Before trying to diagnose problems that may not exist, what kind of tone do you want?

Don't put too much stock in that MOJO mumbo jumbo. You don't need PTP wiring or special caps and trannies to get great tone. PCBs are just as good. Any benefits would be marginal rather than magical. As you develop your tone, then some of those tweaks might help, but start with an amp that gets you in the ballpark. Do some shopping and play LOTS of amps with YOUR guitar. Of course, if you don't like your guitar, you need to start by finding one you like.

Sure, hang on to the Bassman. It won't go down in value, and like I said, it's a great amp. And it's nice to have a little variety. I do wish I'd have been able to keep mine.

Randy · February 11th, 2004, 09:41 AM

blackface bassman amps are great amps, should be all you need, ever. I don't know what your speakers are but that's a pretty big factor. Here's a little secret though, the greatest tone enhancer of all. practice, practice and then practice some more. You'll be amazed how the quality of your tone inproves with the eability to play more better.

Wally · February 11th, 2004, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usastrat

Hey guys,
I know this is quite a... well, stupid opinion, but I kinda' don't fully understand paying A LOT more money for a nice vintage tube amp (66' Bassman) when my old Kramer ss amp w/ pcb chasis can make (believe it or not) almost identical tone and sounds. My 1966 Fender Bassman is a lot louder w/ more bottom end, but other than that very similiar (tone wise). It's really starting to worry me,I've been overdriving it w/ a tube screamer, and playing it clean, but simply am not satisfied.

-STUPID QUESTION, but are BF Fender Bassman, good amps?? What are your opinions of them?
-Do you think it's the lack of a cap and transistor job, or the crappy Kramer Focus guitar pickups, the old and beat-up Groove Tubes, or simply b/c it might be one of those dull and bad sounding amps out of the vintage bunch, or b/c I just don't have a good ear for tone?? :(
-Are there any sound clips on the web, so I can compare???

thanks guys, once again!

1-BF Bassman amps are great amps. I particularly favor the AB165 circuit. It does a compression and overdrive that no other BF Fender except maybe the Musicmaster BAss amp does.
2-If it has never been recapped, then it needs it if you want to hear what should be coming out of it. Good, fresh tubes always make a difference. The SS amp may have affected your hearing... :)... The quality of the guitar and the guitar's set-up always affects sound.
3- If you want to really hear that
BAssman correctly, have the required work done on it, make sure your guitar is as good as it can be, and give it a try. If you don't like what you are hearing after the work, try a higher quality guitar and see if that does it for you. IMHO, listening to clips that are the result of quite a few stages of digitization amplified in a ss, digital domain will not tell you what the amp sounds like anyway.

Tim Swartz · February 11th, 2004, 12:28 PM

Stock BF/SF Bassmans are OK, but less than stellar guitar amps IMO. If you are going to get your sound from a bunch of efx, they are fine, as is any basic tube amp. They do not honk like a tweed, Marshall or any of the bzillion clones out there. If they were a great amp, someone would be selling clones of them like they do w/ the truely great amps. Also, if they were truely great amps they would sell for a lot more dough (as there would be a lot more demand and less supply). They do however, make great mod platforms and can be turned into Marshalls or tweeds, as Leo provided very nice iron, pots, etc... I of course prefer the Swarty http://www.harmony-central.com/Guita...ad_Mod-01.html :D

John E · February 11th, 2004, 12:35 PM

How you're EQ'ing it, speakers, Tubes, caps, pickups, or hey maybe it's a tone that you just don't like... and that's OK everybody's different. I LOVE the tone of a Bassman personally, any Bassman... especially thru a 2x12 cab with Celestion V-30's... it's a great foundational tone that you can add many flavors to with pedals. Geez I think I just talked myself into another case of G.A.S. dammit! LOL! Hey if you want to get rid of that bassman send me an email or private message!

WrapAround · February 11th, 2004, 12:57 PM

as I recall, the sound I got out of them (BF and SF Bassmans) fell in the category of "Plain" more than anything. It didn't sound bad but it didn't make me go "WOW!!! I've gotta have it!" OTOH, because of the plain nature of these amps, overdrive pedals (as well as other types of effects) always sounded good.

John E · February 11th, 2004, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Swartz

Stock BF/SF Bassmans are OK, but less than stellar guitar amps IMO. If you are going to get your sound from a bunch of efx, they are fine, as is any basic tube amp. They do not honk like a tweed, Marshall or any of the bzillion clones out there. If they were a great amp, someone would be selling clones of them like they do w/ the truely great amps. Also, if they were truely great amps they would sell for a lot more dough (as there would be a lot more demand and less supply). They do however, make great mod platforms and can be turned into Marshalls or tweeds, as Leo provided very nice iron, pots, etc... I of course prefer the Swarty http://www.harmony-central.com/Guita...ad_Mod-01.html :D

Oh yeah... forgot to mention... one of the reasons I've been keeping my eye out for a beater Bassman is so I can send it to Tim to mod...

February 10th, 2004, 08:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
usastrat TDPRI Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 32	I know this is EXTREMELY weird,but what do you think... Hey guys, I know this is quite a... well, stupid opinion, but I kinda' don't fully understand paying A LOT more money for a nice vintage tube amp (66' Bassman) when my old Kramer ss amp w/ pcb chasis can make (believe it or not) almost identical tone and sounds. My 1966 Fender Bassman is a lot louder w/ more bottom end, but other than that very similiar (tone wise). It's really starting to worry me,I've been overdriving it w/ a tube screamer, and playing it clean, but simply am not satisfied. -STUPID QUESTION, but are BF Fender Bassman, good amps?? What are your opinions of them? -Do you think it's the lack of a cap and transistor job, or the crappy Kramer Focus guitar pickups, the old and beat-up Groove Tubes, or simply b/c it might be one of those dull and bad sounding amps out of the vintage bunch, or b/c I just don't have a good ear for tone?? :( -Are there any sound clips on the web, so I can compare??? thanks guys, once again!

February 10th, 2004, 08:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lance Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,197	Bassmans ROCK I've got a '66 bassman...and a matching 2x12 cab. Truely an amazing amp. It's not too loud and gets a great Marshally grind when cranked. For a strat, it's my favorite amp. Can't speak to the Kramer. __________________ Lance "not very good...but I make up for it by playing loud"

February 11th, 2004, 09:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
Randy Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 120	bassman blackface bassman amps are great amps, should be all you need, ever. I don't know what your speakers are but that's a pretty big factor. Here's a little secret though, the greatest tone enhancer of all. practice, practice and then practice some more. You'll be amazed how the quality of your tone inproves with the eability to play more better.

February 11th, 2004, 12:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,904	I gotta buck the trend... Stock BF/SF Bassmans are OK, but less than stellar guitar amps IMO. If you are going to get your sound from a bunch of efx, they are fine, as is any basic tube amp. They do not honk like a tweed, Marshall or any of the bzillion clones out there. If they were a great amp, someone would be selling clones of them like they do w/ the truely great amps. Also, if they were truely great amps they would sell for a lot more dough (as there would be a lot more demand and less supply). They do however, make great mod platforms and can be turned into Marshalls or tweeds, as Leo provided very nice iron, pots, etc... I of course prefer the Swarty http://www.harmony-central.com/Guita...ad_Mod-01.html :D

February 11th, 2004, 12:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
John E Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,396	Could be a million reasons... How you're EQ'ing it, speakers, Tubes, caps, pickups, or hey maybe it's a tone that you just don't like... and that's OK everybody's different. I LOVE the tone of a Bassman personally, any Bassman... especially thru a 2x12 cab with Celestion V-30's... it's a great foundational tone that you can add many flavors to with pedals. Geez I think I just talked myself into another case of G.A.S. dammit! LOL! Hey if you want to get rid of that bassman send me an email or private message!

February 10th, 2004, 10:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
5965 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 738	There's really no way to diagnose this over the internet, and, yes, it could be the guitar. Specific info about what you don't like might help someone to comment further. Some guitars don't sound good with some amps. Even with a normally good guitar, having the strings too low can kill the tone. If you can run another guitar through it, that'd be a place to start. If not, perhaps you can run your guitar through another old Fender. Basically, all BF Fenders share pretty much the same tone- and that's by design. Ampwise, the question would be did it ever do what you want. If not, picking up a new 12AX7 to try in the preamp might be a place to start. If the amp isn't making rude noises or double-noting, speakers and old preamp tubes would be the likely suspects. The BF Bassman is a great amp when it's working right. Make sure you try both channels (some prefer each one) and both sets of inputs, and try killing the Bright switch if it sounds thin.

February 11th, 2004, 12:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
WrapAround Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 804 14 Photos	It's been a while since I played through one but ... as I recall, the sound I got out of them (BF and SF Bassmans) fell in the category of "Plain" more than anything. It didn't sound bad but it didn't make me go "WOW!!! I've gotta have it!" OTOH, because of the plain nature of these amps, overdrive pedals (as well as other types of effects) always sounded good.