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Old September 16th, 2008, 07:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Bassman + Marshall "all in one"

Hi!

I wonder if there is any tube amp that can provide Bassman clean sounds and Marshall distorted sounds. Unfortunately I have neighbors and I need that the amp can develop good sound at low volumes, good distortion and sutain.

Does an amp like this one exist?

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Old September 16th, 2008, 08:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzua View Post
Hi!

I wonder if there is any tube amp that can provide Bassman clean sounds and Marshall distorted sounds. Unfortunately I have neighbors and I need that the amp can develop good sound at low volumes, good distortion and sutain.

Does an amp like this one exist?
I've had a '66 BF Bassman for a while. It's not stock. I wasn't original when I bought it and had iron changed out. Anyway, it's been Allen/Master Volume modded. It also has an external bias mod, and just recently I got it modded to take El-34's and 6V6's. Most of the recordings I've made using this amp have been with 6L6's,but now that I've got it loaded with EL-34's,it really sings. I can get some really sweet Tweed/Plexi singing sustain at almost bedroom levels. The key is the master volume mod. I mainly run mine through a Mesa 1x12 openback cab loaded with a reconed 4 ohm Celestion V-30 speaker.On the clean Normal Channel is the AA-864 circuitry which can dialed in for a nice fat jazz clean tone or an nice crystal clean tone with a lot of sparkle.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Fargen Mini Plex MKII
http://stores.homestead.com/fargenam...tail.bok?no=13
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Old September 16th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Arguably, you could make a Bassman clone with one channel normal. the other with a marshall tone stack and have a switchable rectifier amongst other things.
Others here can elaborate in more detail.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 11:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the answers, Texsunburst59, bassame and winny pooh

The vintage Bassman option is always there, yes. The "do it your self" is not an option for me because I have no idea of electronics, further from guitar circuits.

I take note about that Fargen, but I'm not sure that I can give it a try here in the south of Europe.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 11:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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To have "Marshall distorted sounds" you need Celestion speakers (or at least speakers with that type of voice). The closest stock amp I'm aware of that fits your description is a Marshall JTM45. The current Marshall offerings aren't as good as the clones you can get from Metro or other "good" cloners. You'll want a master volume or Power Scaling or VVR system added.

In the alternative, a Marshall 1987 (50-watt lead) amp from the 70's or 80's would do what you describe, again with a master volume, Power Scaling or VVR added. The current Marshall 1987x is not as good as the old ones. Again, you can get a clone at Metro or a few other places.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 01:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Seems like one would need two separate power amps to do each tone justice. A Bassman alongside an 18-watter would probably be about right, but then you'd lose the "all-in-one" aspect.

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Old September 16th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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My guess is that David Allen could build something precisely to your specifications, and it would be top-notch in every respect.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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JTM45 & a Blackstone pedal!!

Are you near Alicante? If so I have a Ceriatone JTM45 coming in a few weeks, and I should have my Blackstone pedal working by then (a switch needs replacing). Maybe you can try mine.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I know of NO amp that can do both 100%, but a MODDED Peavey Classic 50 (especially the 410 version) cops both tones pretty well... especially Bassman.

But the drive chanel must be modded, I did this to mine, and it worked great. (and I just sold it today...)

Let me know if you're interested in the mods.

WHOOPS!! I missed the part about "apartment volumes"... you definitely need a modeling amp for that. I recommend the Vox AD series.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 05:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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At apartment volumes

you might be a candidate for sometype of modelling amp. Not everyone's cup of tea but it might work since many sound incredibly good at low volumes. If you use it to play out you will need to create the same patches designed to handle greater volume. In other words two bassman based patches one for the living room, one for the stage/jam. Two marshall patches one for the living room, one for the stage.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 07:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks to everybody for the answers

Quote:
you might be a candidate for sometype of modelling amp.
I already have an infamous modelling amp among others but whenever you play a real Bassman or a Marshall it is not the same at all. I asked for an "all in one" tube amp solution because that one would be my holly grail amp; Bassman + Marshall distortion + low volume, I don't need anything else .

I find all the suggestions quite interesting and I didn't thought of a custom build. I took down all the builders though it seems an expensive path.


Quote:
Are you near Alicante? If so I have a Ceriatone JTM45 coming in a few weeks, and I should have my Blackstone pedal working by then (a switch needs replacing). Maybe you can try mine.
Unfortunately not, but thanks for the offer However, I never liked distortion from stomp boxes.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If you could just remove the "low volume" requirement (which few amps do well anyway), you would definitely have some options.

Whatever you might find, I'll bet it's going to need a built-in attenuator/power scaling, or you will have to buy an attenuator, to try to get it down to low volumes.

Even if you DO find a "Bassman+Marshall" amp, it's probably not going to be a low-volume amp... I think this is a case where you will have to settle for 2 out of 3:

1) Bassman
2) Marshall
3) Low Volume

The only other solution is to buy TWO low-powered amps: one that sounds like a Bassman & one that sounds like a Marshall.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hey Ruger

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
If you could just remove the "low volume" requirement (which few amps do well anyway), you would definitely have some options.
if I remove the low volume requirement I have to remove the neighbors aswell

Quote:
The only other solution is to buy TWO low-powered amps: one that sounds like a Bassman & one that sounds like a Marshall.
You're probably right and I really appreciate your help. BTW what low powered amps are good?
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Old September 16th, 2008, 10:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The Koch Twintone fits the bill pretty closely. I finally got my hands on a used one a while ago after trying out a new one a couple years back (pretty pricey). The clean channel tone is kind of a Bassman/Twin Reverb cross, and I can definitely dial the OD channel into Marshall territory, but with a little more "hi-fi" quality to it. Built in power soak (-25 watts) and master volume can keep the volume low enough to keep most folks happy. EL34 power tubes help capture the Marshall sound, and the Custom Koch Jensen speaker helps out with the clean (Fender) tones I think. Individual tone controls on each channel helps too. Kind of a good mixture, check it out. The other amp I'd recommend is an old Reverend Hellhound. You can still find them around, and they're a little cheaper. The "schizo" switch changes the character of the amp from US to UK, kind of the same idea. It's basically an eq curve adjustment, but it's apparently pre-gain because when you switch it to UK, you definitely get the upper midrange kick of a Marshall, and more crunch to go along with it. Hope this helps.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 10:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I have zero interest in discouraging anyone on their quest, but it just seems to me that Bassman and Marshall tones just aren't really Bassman and Marshall tones unless they're pushing some air. What makes those tones desirable just plain doesn't really happen at bedroom volumes.

Now, that being said, if you've got some dough to spend, a Carr Mercury would make you a happy camper. I think that little beast has much of the mojo that you're looking for in a small box - with a pretty decent built-in attenuator.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 11:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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At low volume??...no way. You'll need a pedal for that.

Meanwhile, if you're looking for a good mod for a BF/SF Bassman or Bandmaster which will get you a good gig volume split, try this link:

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/...d/bfhotrod.pdf

I leave out the 750pF bypass cap (too muddy). Great mod otherwise. I've put it in at least 7 or 8 amps and have never been asked to reverse it. It gives you a nice Marshall/Vox tone.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 11:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Harmless View Post
I have zero interest in discouraging anyone on their quest, but it just seems to me that Bassman and Marshall tones just aren't really Bassman and Marshall tones unless they're pushing some air. What makes those tones desirable just plain doesn't really happen at bedroom volumes.
Ben speaks true!

A big part of the "tone" so many people search for is that it's loud!

Ya gotta move some air to get that grin, folks. Sorry.

It's just not going to happen in a neighbor-friendly situation.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 11:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I have zero interest in discouraging anyone on their quest, but it just seems to me that Bassman and Marshall tones just aren't really Bassman and Marshall tones unless they're pushing some air. What makes those tones desirable just plain doesn't really happen at bedroom volumes.
+1

I have a 7 watt (non master volume) amp here, a I can hardly get to 2 on the volume control before it gets loud. But, NOTHING sounds good, unless you get the air really moving IMHO. I just try and do it when the neighbours are out, and I am seriously looking for a new house/workshop in the countryside so I can have the freedom to turn my amps up.

A good pedal helps at low volume though, I know that you said you didn't like the sound of pedals, have you tried the BOR, or Blackstone? It seems to me that they are very realistic sounding and feeling, and both work well with a clean amp.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks to everybody for the answers

Quote:
I have zero interest in discouraging anyone on their quest, but it just seems to me that Bassman and Marshall tones just aren't really Bassman and Marshall tones unless they're pushing some air. What makes those tones desirable just plain doesn't really happen at bedroom volumes.
Well, I'm aware that you have to move some air and probably sooner or later I will get me a Marshall and Bassman clone or the real thing, but that won't solve the neighbors problem

Anyway, more clear now what's available.
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