blackface Deluxe Reverb Replacement Speaker

[DMace]

Many opinions: what replacement speaker gets closest to the original Jensen or Oxford? Not looking to expand on the vintage sound, just find a speaker to recreate the original tone as much as a new speaker can replace the tone of a 40-year old speaker.

[bradpdx]

If you really want that same type of speaker (instead of something more robust) try the low end of the Weber line, like the Signature 12s. At $35 you just can't go wrong.

[Singin' Dave]

+1 on Weber, but for an amp as nice as that, a little higher end speaker than the Sig series is in order. Try a 12F150.

If you want to go whole hog and get something that will really sing, try a Celestion Gold.

[DMace]

Originally Posted by Singin' Dave

+1 on Weber, but for an amp as nice as that, a little higher end speaker than the Sig series is in order. Try a 12F150.

If you want to go whole hog and get something that will really sing, try a Celestion Gold.

Both Weber and Celestion Gold were my first inclinations, but I was wondering whether the Celestion would be a little too Brit sounding to be authentic? I have no experience with the speaker, so this is probably an unfounded concern.

[mark norwine]

Originally Posted by DMace

Many opinions: what replacement speaker gets closest to the original Jensen.....

Eminence RedWhite&Blues

[Telepatio]

my advice is if you get the weber, go with the alnico, not the ceramic. much warmer.

[DMace]

Anybody know if the original blackface Deluxe Reverb speakers were Alnico or Ceramic, or either, depending on the year and whether it was a Jensen or an Oxford?

[J.Rodney]

I went with the Emi.Texas Heat in my '65 BFDR,I really like it.

[endzone]

Originally Posted by DMace

Anybody know if the original blackface Deluxe Reverb speakers were Alnico or Ceramic, or either, depending on the year and whether it was a Jensen or an Oxford?

My '66 has a ceramic Oxford. It's not a particularly good speaker that I would care to replicate. I put a Warehouse Speaker "Veteran 30" in my '69 DR and it's the best sound you can imagine coming from a DR. It is substantially better sounding than my '66, due to the speaker change. ( And the '66 sounds very good)

[meyekel]

I went with a Weber Alnico Blue Dog since I couldn't afford a Celestion Gold. I wouldn't say it sounds British, just sounds like a good alnico loudspeaker. Mine's in a '77 SFDR though if that matters all that much.

[DMace]

Originally Posted by endzone

My '66 has a ceramic Oxford. It's not a particularly good speaker that I would care to replicate. I put a Warehouse Speaker "Veteran 30" in my '69 DR and it's the best sound you can imagine coming from a DR. It is substantially better sounding than my '66, due to the speaker change. ( And the '66 sounds very good)

I have an Oxford, which I assume is ceramic, in my 1965 Princeton. I love the sound, but then I've never swapped in other speakers to experiment. I've never heard of Warehouse, actually. I'll look into them. Other than speakers, can you tell a difference between the '66 and '69? I've heard the Deluxes didn't change much, if at all, from blackface to silverface.

[dogletnoir]

When the original speaker (I think it was a Jensen, but can't remember for sure) in my '65 BFDR blew, I replaced it with a Celestion gold...
it sounded amazing !

[DMace]

Originally Posted by J.Rodney

I went with the Emi.Texas Heat in my '65 BFDR,I really like it.

I have a Texas Heat in my Allen Hot Fudge. Sounds great. The Eminence speakers are a terrific value, I think .

[DMace]

Thanks a lot to you guys for chiming in with ideas and opinions. I really appreciate the info. So many speaker options, so few amplifiers in my closet...

[endzone]

Originally Posted by DMace

I have an Oxford, which I assume is ceramic, in my 1965 Princeton. I love the sound, but then I've never swapped in other speakers to experiment. I've never heard of Warehouse, actually. I'll look into them. Other than speakers, can you tell a difference between the '66 and '69? I've heard the Deluxes didn't change much, if at all, from blackface to silverface.

I was surprised to find that there was not much difference at all between my 66 vs. '69. I acutally prefer the '69 with the speaker change. The Oxford speaker sounds good until you swap it for something better. Then, you'll really appreciate a Deluxe Reverb and understand why they're so admired. Warehouse Speakers http://warehousespeakers.com/product...e87631f9017c65 is fairly new and they make really good clones. The Veteran 30 is a clone of Celestion Vintage 30's and they're impressive. They were offering them at an introductory of $20 last year and I know a bunch of us here got some. They've raised the price to I think $65 now, but it's still a good price for a very good speaker.

[DMace]

I may be mistaken, but from what I've read here and other places, it seems that almost nobody still has the original speaker in their blackface Fenders. Either because the original blew, or because of the sonic limitations of the original speakers.

[bradpdx]

Originally Posted by DMace

I may be mistaken, but from what I've read here and other places, it seems that almost nobody still has the original speaker in their blackface Fenders. Either because the original blew, or because of the sonic limitations of the original speakers.

That is correct. The Deluxe was one of the "worst"; I've seen more of those in which the original Oxfords simply blew out because they were genuinely underrated for the power the amp delivers. It is rare to see an original speaker if the amp was used for gigs because it just didn't survive.

Any number of replacement speakers will sound better and provide more robust performance than the originals, for certain. I am currently using an Eminence "Fender red/gold label" reissue (50W) in my BFDR, it sounds really fine. Prior to that I used a JBL E-120 for years, incredibly powerful.

Both of those speakers smoke the original Oxford by leaps and bounds.

[DMace]

Originally Posted by bradpdx

That is correct. The Deluxe was one of the "worst"; I've seen more of those in which the original Oxfords simply blew out because they were genuinely underrated for the power the amp delivers. It is rare to see an original speaker if the amp was used for gigs because it just didn't survive.

Any number of replacement speakers will sound better and provide more robust performance than the originals, for certain. I am currently using an Eminence "Fender red/gold label" reissue (50W) in my BFDR, it sounds really fine. Prior to that I used a JBL E-120 for years, incredibly powerful.

Both of those speakers smoke the original Oxford by leaps and bounds.

That's really good info to know, because I've been digging around for a BFDR with the original speaker, thinking that that would be superior to a replacement. But if I pick up an amp with a replacment speaker, it will be cheaper and sound better.

[Tremo]

I can tell you from experience that a DrRreally responds to a speaker upgrade. Their stock speakers basically were not that great. Put in something with some beef and the DR sounds way bigger. I ended up putting an old reconed jensen P12N in mine. Sounds great. The Weber 12A150 would be my second choice.

[ramseybella]

I went with the Eminence Red Fang in my 65 Deluxe Reverb, Low watts sweet.

[DavidP]

Another vote for the Weber 12F150!!

[theraygun]

Weber. He's doing the vintage thing like no one else.

[gruveb]

Weber. Did anybody mention weber?

[JonesKY]

Eric Johnson's using JBLs in both of his DRs; however, he's dialed them for his clean tone. That said, for a cleaner-louder tone, go with the Weber Calif12 w/paper. For my fav, the Weber Blue Dog - Ceramic for more headroom; Alnico for more touch response. Beautiful!

[bradpdx]

Just a note: having used JBLs for years, I can say with confidence that they increase the perceived loudness of the amp by leaps and bounds. If you want to use a DR at lower club volumes and still want it to break up, the JBL will seem like overkill. On the other hand, if you want loads of clean, clear headroom then the JBL is untouchable.

I recently replaced the JBL E-120 in my '65 BFDR with an Eminence (Fender Gold reissue) speaker because I no longer needed or wanted all that headroom for the gigs I am doing these days. Here's a comparison at the same gig with the same players and the same stage level:

JBL: amp volume control never goes past 4.5, amp is barely breaking up with the guitar/volume pedal is floored. Very clean.

Eminence: amp volume control at 7.5, amp is levitating and floating around the stage area.

I will never get rid of the JBL - it's really great. When I once more need a really clean amp, I'll just put it back in. But for now I am really enjoying the super "traditional" sound of the Eminence.

I should note that I am really impressed by Webers, but this Eminence was free in a swap deal. Can't beat that.

[Beatbx]

If you could find one, a Reverend Alltone 12" is a great speaker. I've read that a Weber Sig 12B is a similar speaker to that one. I've been running my Champ II (18w, 2 6V6's) for the last couple months with a Rev in a separate 1x12, and it sounds incredibly sweet, especially recorded. In the combo itself I installed a 10" brown frame alnico CTS that sounds good too, but the bass tends to fart out when cranked up.

[Singin' Dave]

I replaced my Weber 12F150 (excellent speaker tho) with a Celestion Gold (HOLY CRAP! what a sweet speaker!) and couldn't be happier. But I know a lot of guys who like the 12F150, Tone Tubby, Emis and all sorts of things in their DR's. I'll also second that very few of my friends who own old DR's and actually play them still have the original speaker installed. Almost all have the original in a box in their closet or something.

[Teleglide]

Originally Posted by Singin' Dave

I replaced my Weber 12F150 (excellent speaker tho) with a Celestion Gold (HOLY CRAP! what a sweet speaker!) and couldn't be happier. But I know a lot of guys who like the 12F150, Tone Tubby, Emis and all sorts of things in their DR's. I'll also second that very few of my friends who own old DR's and actually play them still have the original speaker installed. Almost all have the original in a box in their closet or something.

Singin' Dave, how loud is the Celestion Gold compared to the 12F150? I like the 12F150 a lot - currently I'm using an Altec 417-8C (also great) but I've been wondering about the Gold, and whether I would lose a little headroom.

TIA-

[banjovi800]

Originally Posted by Teleglide

Singin' Dave, how loud is the Celestion Gold compared to the 12F150? I like the 12F150 a lot - currently I'm using an Altec 417-8C (also great) but I've been wondering about the Gold, and whether I would lose a little headroom.

TIA-

Just wondering if the Altec 417's sound decent when more gain is applied? I have a 4178H series II on the way and I can't wait to hear it.

[telex76]

I've got a February of 65 Blackface DR that still has the original Oxford speaker in it and it still sounds great.

[chezdeluxe]

Anyone in Australia should give the Melbourne made Lorantz 30 watt Greenback clone a try.I pulled a JBL K120 out of my DRRI and put it in an extension cab so that I could get better breakup from the Lorantz in the amp.It sounds great.The JBL is a superb articulate speaker that gets VERY loud without breakup. Lorantz are made at the old Rola Plessey plant and I am led to believe custom speakers are very possible .

[BrownsBrick]

Originally Posted by Teleglide

Singin' Dave, how loud is the Celestion Gold compared to the 12F150? I like the 12F150 a lot - currently I'm using an Altec 417-8C (also great) but I've been wondering about the Gold, and whether I would lose a little headroom.

TIA-

Ive been wondering this too as well. The only speakers ive had in my Deluxe are a Jensen alnico reissue rated at only 95 db, a weber 12f150, louder but I still would like to know if the gold is louder than a 12f150, I wish weber published sensitivity ratings. I play in a loud band.

Thanks

[BrownsBrick]

BTW The weber 12f150 is an amazing speaker, its going in my Princeton once I get a 1x12 baffle for it.

[Tonemaster]

Celestion V30. Don't knock it til you tried it. Takes the flub away, and adds the missing mids the Deluxe lacks.

T.

[Singin' Dave]

Originally Posted by Teleglide

Singin' Dave, how loud is the Celestion Gold compared to the 12F150? I like the 12F150 a lot - currently I'm using an Altec 417-8C (also great) but I've been wondering about the Gold, and whether I would lose a little headroom.

TIA-

Didn't see this question until this thread was brought back, so sorry for that.

I did not notice much loss of headroom or SPL with the Gold vs. the 12F150. The Gold is a pretty darn efficient speaker (Sensitivity rated at 100db@1w@1m). They both broke up at about the same number on my volume knob and seemed just about as loud. The Gold however, breaks up a bit creamier I guess and has a bit more compression due to the Alnico magnet.

Both outstanding choices though! I will add that of the Weber 12F150's, I prefer the 12F150T.

[Stan Martin]

Eminence Legend series
Eminence Fender re-issue (Angela Instruments had these)

Reverend Alltone 1250- this is my personal fav and I have them in my Twin Reverb.

[telex76]

I still have the original Oxford speaker in my early 65 DR and the amp is the most ridiculously wonderful sounding amp I've ever plugged into. The speaker code says it was made in Aug. of 1964.

[fezz parka]

I love the Red Fang idea. That or a Swamp Thang.

[tomfarnan]

Originally Posted by Singin' Dave

+1 on Weber, but for an amp as nice as that, a little higher end speaker than the Sig series is in order. Try a 12F150.

I have this exact speaker sitting in my BFDR. Sounds sweet and vintage.

[Eero]

I have a Red Fang in deluxe reverb and love it. Here you can listen to some sound samples all played with deluxe reverb with red fang and stratocaster. http://www.myspace.com/earlandtheslimline
I also use weber beam blocker and it is great too.
Earl