replaced transformers-value/sound

[marshallmelloman]

How does a replaced output or power transformer negatively impact the sound/value of a vintage amp? I know it's bad, I don't know why. Why do they break, and why are they not replaceable by a tonally suitable square metal thing?

[mark norwine]

like any collectable, vintage value is based largely on originality.

tone-wise, a good replecement can sound just as good as the original. there are many fine aftermarket units available. consult your tech.

i can't begin to address comments about "square metal things"

[marshallmelloman]

Just kidding Mark, but only slightly. I am a player and lover of great tube amps new and old, but do not really know "why" these ominous cubes of metal are so important to the sound as to be irreplaceable in some people's minds. Many old amps have these replaced and I am wondering why they break. Also an old tube amp with replaced speakers is no big dael. The speakers have an obviously huge amount to do with the sound of the amp and yet players feel that there are many suitable and sometimes even better replacements for them to the point of no real devaluation, whereas with a replaced power or output transformer people do not want to take the chance on buying the amp sometimes even for hundred's less. I wont buy vintage amps with replaced transformers just because I know if I ever want/need to sell it I will have a hard time getting my money back.

[Cheesecaster]

i inquired about the transformers on a brownface amp , the output tf is original but the power
tf is replaced.
i havent heard the amp yet , they say its a killer amp. . Maybe should wait
to find something else.

[Tim Swartz]

You can also take the tact that an amp with a replaced tranformer might put a piece that is otherwise beyond ones means, well within reach.

[5965]

Cheesecaster, the consensus seems to be it doesn't matter sonically if the power transformer has been replaced so long as the correct replacement unit (or matching original) was used. I wouldn't hesitate to get the amp if everything else was ok and the price was suitable. As has been remarked upon, some brownfaces seem to have a higher than expected rate of power tranny replacement.

Output transformers are another matter, particularly on older amps because of construction differences, and many believe they directly influence the sound. However, due to the boutique/vintage industry, there's not been a better time to purchase a guitar transformer since the '60's. Nevertheless, a non-original part would devalue the amp.

I'm not sure many collectors would agree that having original speakers is unimportant, or that lacking them has little effect on amp value. While there are many replacement speakers (and their selection is totally subjective), anything that isn't historically correct will devalue an amp. Usually, the price goes down by the cost of the historically-correct speakers. Sometimes, that can be quite high.

However, in both cases, for some buyers and as Tim says, that can be a good thing since they can get a better amp for less money (and, in the latter situation, not worry about damaging what may be high-priced and potentially fragile vintage speakers).

I didn't make the market. That's just the way it works.

[Dacious]

Why they cost so much is easy - making them, even on a winding machine is labour intensive. The result must be carefully potted in wax or similar sealant for long life, or the laquered wires will chafe, and the laquer flex and fall off due to vibrations through the whole assembly and short and fail - precisely what happens to cheap ones.

They fail because you have them made of coated copper wire, which doesn't have an enormous ability to withstand continual movement which happens in heating and cooling. The laquer ages and gets brittle and falls off. The moment the bare wires contact each other - smoke, flames and goodnight Irene.

Old complete amps, like complete, original guiitars are worth most in a 'collectible' sense if everything, including caps, covering and tubes, is in good condition and as it came from the manufacturer.

For that reason many stay locked up and unplayed. If looking for a player, then reliability and tonality are more important as Tim Swartz aluded to. So you don't care if the transformers are original, as long as the replacements are sound and the tone is there.

If gigging you want an amp that you can run at volume without flameouts or noise, so good caps and other components like resistors replaced in normal service will override concerns about originality.

As to why old ones are worth most that's like why old Tele's are - manufacturing processes like handwinding, paper formers and insulation and ever-increasing rarity in a growing market.

[schmee]

Last summer the Output trans on my BFDR went out. My tech put an inexpensive (New Sensor) trans in (although he charged me $90 for it). It sounds like crap. :x Real grainy and much more breakup than the original. I just purchased a Mercury Magnetics Axiom and will put it in soon. (dont hold your breath!) and will let ya'll know what it sounds like. PS: I have a new tech now. :D