replacement speak suggestions for fender super champ

[mikem]

hey everybody...i have a mid-80's paul rivera designed fender super champ. i still has the original, fender special design 10" speaker in it. i'm thinking i might want to try something different in it...i play a telecaster, love super clean tones as well as nice break-up blues tones. ultimately i'm looking to gain more bottom end as the fender speaker is a bit too mid range-y for me.

let me hear what you experts have to say!

thanks!
mike

[Good Iron]

Hey Mike:

You are right, way too much mid range. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about this. I will PM you so we can exchange addresses so I can send you a check and you can send over the amp. This is the only solution to this problem.

Seriously I think that there might be a problem with the original speaker if it sounds... "not right". I would take it in and have someone that knows how to sweep it tell you if the speaker is okay or not.

Just my .02

Michael

[mikem]

Originally Posted by Good Iron

Hey Mike:

You are right, way too much mid range. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about this. I will PM you so we can exchange addresses so I can send you a check and you can send over the amp. This is the only solution to this problem.

Seriously I think that there might be a problem with the original speaker if it sounds... "not right". I would take it in and have someone that knows how to sweep it tell you if the speaker is okay or not.

Just my .02

Michael

yeah, you're right, i guess i should just get rid of it!

seriously, i wouldn't say that speaker sounds "not right", just wondering if a jensen ALnico or weber speaker would drastically change the tonal quality...

[Good Iron]

Hi Mike:

Naw man, I am just jealous is all... I would love to own a Super Champ!

Whenever you change anything the tone will change, so experiment if you want to.

I would think that the tonal characteristic of the Super Champ is partly due to the speaker that is originally there, so that is why I suggested having an amp dude, sweep for frequency response and check out the speaker. I think the original speaker will most likely be the best for the job. Of course this is just an opinion.

Michael

[Wally]

Mike, I have two SC's. You are correct in thinking that the stock speaker is less than optimal...or at least you and I agree. I run Eminence Alnico's in mine....much better bottom, much smoother distortion, still cut like it they need to. The stock Eminence in there is just flat....no bottom, harsh distortion...to my ear.

[singlecoil]

Hey Mike, I've got a Champ II, and I'm using a Weber 10a125 30watt in mine and I'm very pleased with it. I've had an emi alnico and it was very good also. I think it broke up a tad sooner than the weber and definitely smoother better distortion also but I wanted a little more clean from mine so I'm using the weber. You should definitely replace the original speaker, it will be an improvement. BTW I've heard one of Wall's SC's and it sounds great.

[mikem]

thanks guys for your thoughts! and experience!

[janglesoul]

Hi,
The occasional lurker has now signed up. It just happens that I scored an old Fender Super Champ myself the other day - and I'm too thinking of a speaker upgrade. So I'm reading every suggestion with great interest.

My problem right now seems to be that I haven't decided which task I want the Super Champ to perform. I like the idea of a small combo, and I like to see it as a complement to my SF Vibrolux (that I won't drive into break-up until I play stadiums, at least I feel that way) so maybe a speaker that breaks-up a bit earlier would be nice.

Normally I play clean or on the verge of break-up, but the break-up in the Vibrolux has been made by an overdrive pedal (Paul Cochrane Timmy or BJF Honeybee OD).

I have taken notes of what's already been said - but I'm a total newbie when it comes to speaker replacement so I know very little of it all.

Thanks! All input most welcome!

Carl

[Wally]

Welcome, janglesoul. good luck with the little SC...great amps.

[janglesoul]

Hi again!

After much reading and googling I've decided that all facts considered (including cost and availability) that my choice of replacement speakers for the Super Champ stands between Eminence Ragin Cajun and Eminence Lil' Buddy. I have seen both suggested for the Super Champ in different threads. Both pretty great speakers I'm sure - but for what user and for which amp?

The reason for my indecisiveness is this:
1. I'm worried the Lil Buddy will be too dark and steal the glittery Fender clean.
2. I'm worried the Ragin Cajun will make the Super Champ too trebly and harsh.

Maybe I'm exaggerating this decision? When listening to the clips on the Eminence website I actually think I prefer the Ragin Cajun over the Lil Buddy - but I guess it must depend on the amp driving it too?

So, I'm asking for second opinions - especially from people who know the Super Champ very well. How bright do you find it stock? Can you put in a hemp cone speaker without making it too dark? Does it get to bright with the Ragin Cajun?

I'm looking forward to playing clean/semiclean - classic Fendersound. I play only singlecoil guitars, lately mostly a Telecaster in bridge position with the treble rolled off a bit.

As always I'm grateful for all and any input!

Thanks,

Carl

PS. I posted almost the same question over at TGP as well. I hope nobody takes offence for me doing this. DS.

[Caper]

I have the Ragin Cajun in my SC, you should here these amps with a JBL if you like lottsa bottom end and clean tones. I have a K110 as well; it has a huge bottom end with beautiful clean tones with a Tele.

[janglesoul]

HI Caper,
Thanks for chiming in! How are you liking your SC/RC-combination?

Cheers,
Carl

[Hoodster]

You could split the difference and go with the Ramrod -- it's not as bright as the Cajun or as dark as the Buddy. Look at the thread on the Champ II--which is basically the same amp as the Super Champ. The guy e-mailed Eminence and they recommended the Ramrod.

Having owned a Super Champ for many years, I don't think you can really go wrong with any of those three speakers. I would just strongly advise avoiding alnico speakers, which I found sounded very thin with that amplifier.

[Wally]

I don't find the sound of my SC's thin at all with the Alnico Emi's that I have in them.
The amps can do rich, clean surf, jazz or country. They do tweed sonics very convincingly, and they go into high gain very well. The Alnicos provide smooth distortion on the high end, which is one area of the sonics that many people question with these amps. This effect on the high end is exactly why I chose the Alnico. IF it had not done what I thought it would, I would have never repeated the choice for the second amp's speaker.
I wish I had a steady supply of these amps and the Champ II. With the sonics that my amps provide, I could sell two or three a month....every month. With the original speaker, the amps were questionable at best.....definitely not very impressive.
I might concede that something closer to vintage JEnsen C10's would provide a bigger low end, but these Alnicos are sufficient down low, and the amps don't run the risk of being confused with the bass....in other words, they cut. Think BF super REverb with CTS Alnicos....which some feel are the best speakers ever used in SR's.....but in a small package and admittedly less wattage. I have a pro customer who was invited to gig with Bugs HEnderson in the Dallas area. My friend got caught with nothing but his ChampII.. He walked in with a guitar in one hand and the amp in the other. He walked out having worked a great gig and having impressed the band with the little amp. The Alnico speaker cut through. Bugs was using a SR. The band was professional enough to work in a sympathetic manner, but they all reevaluated what they jokingly called..."Bug's amp's baby brother' before the gig started. Sometimes what sounds 'great' in a non-working environment doesn't work with a band. The low end belongs to the bass in most bands, and too much bottom end in a guitar amp can be a waste of time and mush for the overall sound.
As always, ymmv and we all have our own ears. I just know that if I have one of these Super Champs uncovered, everyone is curious . AFter they hear it, they REALLY want to buy it. It soudns like a BF REverb amp, a tweed, and has high gain to boot....with smooth and harmonically-rich distortion. IF I went with a ceramic speaker, it would have to have smooth highs when pushed. IF one only wants clean, I supose that one's choice is simplified. I also think that is missing the point of this amp, but that is a personal thing. Mike, the original poster, did make the point that he used some breakup. Harsh distortion is to be avoided imo.

[Caper]

I think the JBL has an alnico magnet and believe me it sounds anything BUT thin. The only reason why I even bothered to try the RC was to decrease the weight due to knee problems.

Carl as far as the RC goes I'm satisfied with it, we have 3 Teles here; 1 with a Classic Series Bridge/Rio-Grande neck, another with Kinman Broadcasters, and the other with Duncan Designed pickups. This speaker is a good match for all the guitars. I don't use it over 4 or 5 on the volume for the most part and it has plenty of bottom before it starts to break up without sounding too harsh. My son tried it on the Lead setting and it broke up quite nicely; sounded much better than the original and the JBL for a bit of dirt. The price was right too, I think I paid roughly $50 for it here in Canada.

A friend of mine has a Weber 10F150T, it sounded good to me but he felt the Weber was better suited for a bigger box like a Princeton.

[janglesoul]

Thanks Wally for nice information and a healthy perspective on the need for lowend!

Caper - I think I'm gravitating towards the Ragin Cajun more and more. Thanks/C

[Hoodster]

If the JBL was heavy, it wasn't alnico. Alnico speakers are lighter than ceramic.

I don't know about the Emi alnicos, but the Jensen P10R was thin and wimpy with zero bass with this amp. Rivera designed it for ceramic, so that's the safest route IMO.

[Hoodster]

This thread -- and the one on the Champ II -- led me to put the Eminence Ramrod back in the custom pine 1 x 10 cabinet you see pictured in my avatar. I'm always testing speakers and most recently had a Weber alnico in there. Anyway, I'm grateful for these threads because I'm rediscovering what a FANTASTIC speaker the Ramrod is. I have owned the Eminence Cajun, Copperhead, and Ramrod tens, and the Ramrod is clearly my personal favorite. It is not overly mid-focused or dark like many British style speakers -- it is just extremely smooth and balanced, very punchy and present.

[Chris Leger]

It's present?

[rossfloss]

Originally Posted by janglesoul

Hi again!

After much reading and googling I've decided that all facts considered (including cost and availability) that my choice of replacement speakers for the Super Champ stands between Eminence Ragin Cajun and Eminence Lil' Buddy. I have seen both suggested for the Super Champ in different threads. Both pretty great speakers I'm sure - but for what user and for which amp?

The reason for my indecisiveness is this:
1. I'm worried the Lil Buddy will be too dark and steal the glittery Fender clean.
2. I'm worried the Ragin Cajun will make the Super Champ too trebly and harsh.

Maybe I'm exaggerating this decision? When listening to the clips on the Eminence website I actually think I prefer the Ragin Cajun over the Lil Buddy - but I guess it must depend on the amp driving it too?

So, I'm asking for second opinions - especially from people who know the Super Champ very well. How bright do you find it stock? Can you put in a hemp cone speaker without making it too dark? Does it get to bright with the Ragin Cajun?

I'm looking forward to playing clean/semiclean - classic Fendersound. I play only singlecoil guitars, lately mostly a Telecaster in bridge position with the treble rolled off a bit.

As always I'm grateful for all and any input!

Thanks,

Carl

PS. I posted almost the same question over at TGP as well. I hope nobody takes offence for me doing this. DS.

I've owned a Fender Super Champ for as long as I can remember and I've taken it well through it's courses. In terms of what I think about the stock speaker I can say it actually sounds pretty good. It has much of the Fender upper-end clarity and fat warm mids you would expect (I haven't had any experience with treble harshness). But as many folks have already noted, the low-end leaves much to be desired. The speaker always farts out when you dig in on the low notes, especially with humbuckers. Not cool.

I have a buddy who put in an Emi Ragin Cajun, as a matter of fact, and it sounded great to my ears. However, I think it's important to note that I only heard him play a 335 through it and not a Fender so I am not 100% on what to expect.

A final point I want to make with HUGE emphasis is the fact that the super champ is a tube amp and it really does sound twice as good if not three times as good if you run the volume at 7 or above. 7 is really when the harmonicly rich, fat & warm, 3 dimensional sounding tube tone opens up (with clean single coils you will be in sonic bliss). This is how you will really hear what any given speaker has to offer.