72 Deluxe Reverb: better than a new RI?

[Mocaster]

I can buy this amp in mint condition for $850.


A new RI is about $700-$725.

Is the 72 point to point, and still a better amp?
I know the circuit is not the famous 763 circuit on a blackface or 68/69 silver.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Ringo]

There should not be much if any difference from the 68 model.
Does the 72 DR have the seperate baffle board or the glued in baffle?
Personally I'd go for the point to point wired 72DR over a DRRI any day, it will be much easier to service and tweak to your satisfaction and it will last much longer and appreciate in value, unlike the circuit board DRRI.

I don't know if that is a fair market price, it seems a little high but if it's really mint and you want it ?
FWIW all the SF Fender amp seem to be going up in value a lot lately.
A friend of mine just sold a mint 68 Princeton Reverb for over $700.

[tenstrings]

I have a 72DR and the only way someone is getting that amp from me is to pry it from my cold dead hands.
I played with a guy who had the RI and it was much more fragile.
$850 for a clean one is a pretty average price around here.
Go for it.
brian

[stantheman]

I would take a "rat" DR from the 70's over any of the
"if Leo were alive today" amps. The people who rave about reissues can keep 'em, compared to quality amps
the reissues are another blunder. They could have made
the reissue line "real", they already had the "Hot Rod"
line for the intermediate enthusiast but NOoooo......

[ramblinmike]

i have a DRRI and it is a very fragile amp. or feels like it at least. lots of rattling going on and its already been serviced (thankfully still under warranty) because the soldering was all bad. I regret that i did not get a silverface instead. plus my amp is only going down in value while the silverfaces are going up. my $.02

[dean]

The '72 is going to appreciate in value as you use it, and the RI will depreciate in value as time passes. You will also undoubtedly learn more about your equipment with the '72. I think the price is fair, plus you'll end up with one of those amps that is a "standard" - one that other amps try to copy.

Seems like a no-brainer. Have fun!

Dean

[zook]

I have a '75 DR. All it takes to blackface the amp (with the exception of a few minor differences in the Vibrato circuit) is to remove the capacitors between the 6V6 input grids and cathodes, and to swap out the 330 Grid resistors on the phase inverter and for one mg ones.

Winnie

[Tremo]

I'd rather have a '72 PTP wired amp than 10 of those lousey reissues. Go for the real amp, not the limp wristed reissue.

[Coyle@bright.net]

I could give you the long version but I'll give you the short version.. Get The 1972 Deluxe Reverb ! It's that simple... Respectfully, Tom

[Bill Beck]

Everytime I try to save a buck it comes back to kick me in the behind. For the price difference there is no comparison or reason NOT to go with the SFDR. You won't be sorry. I've had both, and currently have an ultra clean '75. It'll be buried with me. :)

[jjmantele]

The SF will go up in value.
The RI will go down in value.

The SF has passed the test of time.
The RI is a crap shoot.

The SF uses wires to connect things.
The RI uses "traces."

The SF is built "the way they used to."
The RI is built to modern standards.

The SF is a vintage amp.
The RI is pretending to be a vintage amp.

[maxvintage]

Well I've heard some very good sounding reissues

Not all point to point amps are really good. For exampe, some of the later ones are really sloppily wired. Fender/CBS installed the supressor caps on the tubes in order to prevent parasitic oscillations--wierd howls and other behaviors. I have a 69 deluxe reverb i really like, but it is always just at the edge of a constant feedback-like howl--if you tap it, you can hear a sound that isn't microphonic tubes. It changes depending on how the amp is positioned. It's because it's not as neatly wired as a blackface would probably be. On the other hand, i love the amp, and it's prefectly usable as is.

But I'd still go with the 72, for the reasons everyone said. Repairs are easy, and it's a really durable design--here's a 35 year old amp that's had almost no maintenance, other than filter caps and a three prong plug. Will the reissues still be working that long?

here's what I'd do--test the 72 really well. Crank it, play it clean, turn the guitar volume down and the amp vol up and listen for wierd noises. Open it up and look at the wiring. It'll look confusing, but you want to see neat work--wire lengths should be as short as absolutely possible, and the whole thing should look like it was laid out with care. The neater the better

[Mocaster]

Thanks fo all the feedback, easy decision here!

[tdowns]

It is obvious to see the positive aspects of going with the 72 for that kind of money, and so would I.

My question:

Does anyone own a 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue? How do you like it? I can't seem to find a vintage DR under $1800, so the RI may be an option for me. I wasn't impressed with the Twin reissue, but I don't have any experience with the Deluxe reissue. What does the RI specifically lack???

Comments?

[leewhit]

Bought a reissue deluxe several years back. Thought it was too harsh on the highs and the lows were not tight and defined enough for my taste. Not as much punch.Had it rewired, (point to point) put in a Naylor speaker, retubed and went to a solid state rectifier.Huge difference! Now my amp sounds better than my friend's blackface!! Unless you want to spend a lot of money, go with something else. If someone would put in better tubes,better speaker and go to solid state rectifier they would have great sounding amp.Don't think it would hold up as good as point to point wired amp though.I wouldn't go this route again(too much money)but since I did, I do at least now have a really great sounding in your face-sweet amp!

[JimS]

and have played 10 gigs with it so far. First thing I did when I got it was re-tube and re-bias it, and it sounds great. I havent changed the speaker, and I may not, since the stock one seems to be getting better and better the more it breaks in. Up until I got the RI, I was playing live exclusively with a POD XT direct into our system. Had some killer tones programmed, but I am glad I went back to a tube amp for many reasons. Anyway, I think that a lot of the critisizm of the DRRI is made by old school purists who are afraid of change (not trying to offend anyone, as I own an old modded silver face bassman, too!). I agree, the old black face deluxes have a sound all their own, and it is killer tone if you want to spend the dough. But, is it REALLY that much better? How many of you could go stand out in the audience and WITHOUT checking out the amp, really distinguish the difference between the two from out in the house? Sure, there are a few who could, but the majority wouldnt know the difference. As far as reliablility goes, ANY tube amp, I dont care if it is old or new, if it gets slammed around and treated roughly on the road, IT WILL FAIL!! May not fail tonight, or next week, but it will sooner or later! I've got two friends who play in bands in my area who are both playing DRRI's, one is about two years old, the other which was bought used, is I guess probably four years old. Aside from changing the tubes, they have had zero problems with them, and they get used pretty hard. I think the gripes about the PCB durability are grossly exhagerated for the most part. True, point to point wiring is more durable, but I am a firm believer that if you take care of your gear, it will take care of you. That philosophy has worked for me for going on 12 years now. The debate about RI versus original vintage will go on for ever, but the truth is, the comparison is unfair. Each have their own tonal characteristics, and each can be made to sound like something else. Truth is, an ORIGINAL UNTOUCHED sliver face deluxe doesnt sound that great until you rebias it, and usually retube it. Then, you might as well go ahead and have a cap job done, Then, you might as well go ahead and have it completely black faced, and what do you have??? a modified amp, just like when you retubed and rebiased that new DRRI, except you have probably just sunk over a grand into that silver face. As a working musician, I just dont see doing all that just to be able to say "well, I have an original Deluxe Reverb". It's not original, you had all that work done on it to make it sound that way, remember? I might get proven wrong one of these nights, but until it happens, I am perfectly happy with the performance of my DRRI thus far.

[stantheman]

if someone GAVE me a reissue the first thing I'd do is
SELL IT. If someone I know was considering buying
a reissue the first thing I'd let them do is play a Silverface.
These reissue amps are losing value as time goes on
INSTEAD of gaining value. What does THAT tell you.
If you INSIST on going "semi-state" buy yourself a "Hot
Rod" at least you'll have a ready market when you go to
sell.

[JimS]

Everyone has their own opinions. My personal experience, when I tried out the amps sie by side with MY tele, the DRRI sounded way better than the Hot Rod Deluxe. Maybe I just got a good one! As it sits right now, with better tubes and hoter bias, it will smoke any Hot Rod deluxe I have heard to date. :D

[maxvintage]

I agree that the reissues often sound great. My argument is more about long term reliability--a reissue is going to need, over the course of its life, EXACTLY the same maintenance as a silverface or a blackface--biasing, caps, newtubes, etc. It's just that A: the maintenance will be harder to do, and B: the reissues are not as well constructed. I'm not an amp tech, but i've done a lot of investigating on line and off and this seems to be the consensus. The tube sockets aren't as solid or as well achored, the pots are attached to the circuit board, etc.

Circuit board amps can be greAt--I have a 1964 ampeg B15 with a circuit board, and the theing is great--and extremely reliable. But compared to a reissues, it's a much heavier board with much more substantial solder traces.

Agan, I think reissues can sound great. There's just no apparent advantage to a reissues that i can see, and if they are that close in price, i would not hesistate for a second to get a good sounding silverface first

[leewhit]

I would like to add to my above post that I don't think the reissues are bad amps, just when you have a blackface beside you on stage to compare with- you are going to notice a difference. I do think just changing to better tubes and re-biasing will make a big change for the better. The tubes that are stock are not good and the bias is set too cold.I found someone with a Naylor speaker and compared to the stock and I was sold.Warmed up the tone and is more in your face. Some people do not like solid state rectifiers(I respect that and if I played mostly another style of music,I would feel that way too). For country style music the s.s. rectifier tightens the low end,gives a little more punch,a lot more reliability and a bit more power. Most people that I know that play country style music go in this direction.As to the stock speaker-I didn't give it a chance to break-in. After I heard the Naylor that was that.