Vintage Fender Amp help needed

[StratPlayer]

I Recently tried to hook up some speakers up to a 50s FENDER SUPER amp (big mistake on my part) and now it won't turn on.maybe i blew the power tranformer because the fuse is still good.i did do some research before doing this and read that tube amps handle lower impedence loads but i guess this is wrong with some amps or perhaps i hooked things up wrong.

i hooked up 2 8ohm 2X10 cabs up to the two jacks.im assuming these are both speaker jacks since i disconnected the existing speaker from one and the the other jack is also connected to the same jack.i assumed its was a parrallel connection.the amp turned on and i heard one cab make some noise as a speaker usually does, but the other speaker cab did not so i turned off the amp.after turning back on with the original speaker that always worked the power would not turn on and no tubes lit up.

did i blow the power transformer or a tube? i will put this amp in the shop because it did start to develope some popping noises and probably needed cleaning and new tubes but now it seems to need more bigtime servicing.

any amp techs out there know if this is an easy fix or a costly fix?
thanks

[Wally]

I am guessing that your use of those two cabs and the cessation of funciton in your amp is just a coincidence. IF the amp hasn't been properly serviced, you probably had a cap failure. HOpefully, new electrolytics and a good general service will get it back up and running. I hope you didn't lose a trannie.

[Foreign Made]

Howdy

Nice amp, is it a Tweed or a Brown Super?

I doubt that you've blown the output transformer with a simple switching on even if the speaker jack sockets were poked and not connecting.

It will be a simple fix, but could be anything from a knackered power switch, cap or resistor, rectifier valve ... easy enough to work on these amps and for a tech to sort for you.

Adios amigo.

[Flat357]

Sure you only have 1 fuse ?
Some of my amps have many .

[Joe M]

Foreign Made...."knackered"....what a great word, I love it....

[JimiBryant]

I agree with Wally, the amp probably would have failed, regardless,
especially if it hasn't been re-capped in the past 10 or 15 years
(or ever!)

best of luck, hope it's an easy fix, and BTW welcome to the TDPRI forum.

[StratPlayer]

Thanks for all the info.i have a feeling that my tranny is still good since i only had it on for a few seconds with the 2X10s ,unless a few seconds is all it takes to fry a tranny.this amp has always worked for years(used seldomly exept when was gigging with it) with the 12'' non original speaker and always sounded wonderful.the recent unusual noises would come and go and turning the input cable seemed to help.maybe needed some cleaning.whatever i did with the 2X10s has caused the problem.

my brother got this amp for about $30.00 a while back with a 60s fender reverb effect head and gave both to me.i guess the previous owner didn't know what he had.amp looks to be all original exept for the speaker and baffle.all the tolex has been removed but the wood looks kinda neat.i can always take my volt meter and see if power is making it to the tranny.i dont even know if this amp has ever been serviced but i did see some electrical tape wrapped around some tranny wires.

i would like to restore it completely some day with 2X10'' speakers.a freind told me that these came with 2 10'' speakers.maybe i could use the speakers from one of the gibson cabs or perhaps find a pair that were originally designed for it.i believe the gibsons are CTS brand speakers and do look powerful enough.

anyway thanks for all the input.
more is welcome
thanks

[Wally]

StratPlayer, I didn't notice that you are a newbie, so...Welcome.
That amp is indeed worth a good service by a good tech. My rule for these vintage Fenders is that I don't play them much at all after I acquire them until I replace the electrolyitc capacitors. Then, the amp can be properly assessed.
IF and when you get ready to ressurect that gem, I have a set of matched Jensens from 1955 that belong in an amp like that one. I keep hoping that I will run into a Tweed Super for myself and I could put these into it, but that hasn'[t happened yet.
You are a lucky fellow to get a gift like that. Is the tube chart still in the cab? IF so, can you read the ink-stamped letter code....two letters denoting the year and month. These letters can be anywhere on the chart in any orientation. What are the codes on the trannies, if any? You have us curious.

[StratPlayer]

Originally Posted by Wally

StratPlayer, I didn't notice that you are a newbie, so...Welcome.
That amp is indeed worth a good service by a good tech. My rule for these vintage Fenders is that I don't play them much at all after I acquire them until I replace the electrolyitc capacitors. Then, the amp can be properly assessed.
IF and when you get ready to ressurect that gem, I have a set of matched Jensens from 1955 that belong in an amp like that one. I keep hoping that I will run into a Tweed Super for myself and I could put these into it, but that hasn'[t happened yet.
You are a lucky fellow to get a gift like that. Is the tube chart still in the cab? IF so, can you read the ink-stamped letter code....two letters denoting the year and month. These letters can be anywhere on the chart in any orientation. What are the codes on the trannies, if any? You have us curious.

Yes it does have the chart.

it says
production 15 ID
model 5f4
serial # 502810

i did not see any leaky componants and all look in good shape but i did not look closely.the existing speaker is a special design fender.if i do eventially get this fixed i would like to restore to original specs and may be interested in 1955 speakers.my gibson cabs have cts alnico speakers.i belive fender also used these on some fender amps and might be substantial enough but im not sure.
i was wandering what info can you tell me about this amp?
thanks

[DrewB]

Originally Posted by StratPlayer

production 15 ID

April 1959

[Foreign Made]

Originally Posted by StratPlayer

... after turning back on with the original speaker that always worked the power would not turn on and no tubes lit up.

I just had to post again to slip the word "knackered" in again for our moderator. #:o)

If the heaters and thus mains-lamp are not lit then I suspect that the main "on/off" switch has simply given up the ghost. Half a century of arc'n mains has worn it out.

Here's some info on the amp ...

Year: 1955-1960

Model: Super

Model No: 5F4 (56-60)

Config: Combo

Control Panel: Chrome top facing w/ white screened labels, controls numbered 1-12

Conrol Layout: Ground Sw, Fuse (3A), Power Sw, Standby Sw, Pilot Lamp, Presense, Bass, Treb, Vol, Mic Vol, In, In, Mic In, Mic In

Knobs: Black pointer

Cabinet: Narrow panel, 18½" x 22" x 10½" (47 x 55.9 x 26.7 cm)

Cab Covering: Diagonal tweed

Cab Hardware: Leather Handle, glides

Grille: brown grille cloth

Logo: Cabinet mounted, Script "Fender" on rectangular tag

Weight: ?

Speakers/Load: 2 x 10"/? ohms

Speaker Model: Jensen P10R or Jensen P10Q

Effects: None

Output: 35 watts ?

Preamp: 5F4: Mic: ½ 12AY7, Inst: ½ 12AY7, 12AX7 and ½ 12AX7 shared by both channels

Power: 5F4: 2 x 6L6G

Bias: 5F4: Fixed bias, nonadjustable

Rectifier: 5F4: 5U4G

Phase Inverter: 5F4: ½ 12AX7 (split load)

Comments:
* A speaker and ex. speaker jack were located under the chassis.
* A selenium rectifier was used in the bias circuit for 5F4.
* The spearkers were mounted off center in the lower left and upper right corners of the baffle.

[Rocks]

One thing no one has mentioned yet and its very important for anyone to know when playing around with tube amps - If you don't know what you are doing they can KILL you. Other than changing tubes and fuses, don't touch anything inside that amp unless you know how to properly discharge the caps. Even if the amp is left unplugged for a few years it can still kill you. The caps can and will hold a huge charge for a very, very long time. Before you do anything please read how to properly prepare the amp to work on it safely, Also, when working on an amp (or anything electrical) a general rule of thumb is to always keep one hand in your pocket. Two hands in can complete a circuit right through your heart, you wouldn't even have enough time to say "oh chit"

[StratPlayer]

Originally Posted by Rocks

One thing no one has mentioned yet and its very important for anyone to know when playing around with tube amps - If you don't know what you are doing they can KILL you. Other than changing tubes and fuses, don't touch anything inside that amp unless you know how to properly discharge the caps. Even if the amp is left unplugged for a few years it can still kill you. The caps can and will hold a huge charge for a very, very long time. Before you do anything please read how to properly prepare the amp to work on it safely, Also, when working on an amp (or anything electrical) a general rule of thumb is to always keep one hand in your pocket. Two hands in can complete a circuit right through your heart, you wouldn't even have enough time to say "oh chit"

Hmm, mayb it is the switch.i will discharge the caps before i plan on checking the on/off switch.i used to have a tube amp tech video and book mentioning this.i will look for info on the net.thanks for mentioning
this as safety is #1 .thanks for looking out for us fellow amateurs.

[FiddlinJim]

Strat,
Several of us who watch this forum have built replicas of this amp (5F4) and they're really great, so this will be a terrific one to be restored. "Some" say it was Leo Fender's favorite. You're really lucky it came your way. Good luck with it and remember your safety precautions!

[Wally]

Originally Posted by StratPlayer

Yes it does have the chart.

it says
production 15 ID
model 5f4
serial # 502810

i did not see any leaky componants and all look in good shape but i did not look closely.the existing speaker is a special design fender.if i do eventially get this fixed i would like to restore to original specs and may be interested in 1955 speakers.my gibson cabs have cts alnico speakers.i belive fender also used these on some fender amps and might be substantial enough but im not sure.
i was wandering what info can you tell me about this amp?
thanks

You have been given good info on that amp. The 'I' is 1959, 'D" is april.
Fender didn't use CTS speakers until the latter part of the '60's. That amp would have carried JEnsen Alnico's.
"leakey components"...ime, electrolytics lose their ability to yield good sonics long before there is a visual indicator. That amp needs fresh caps, imo.
A good tech can make that amp sound like it should and maybe save the valuable transformers from a catatrophic incident.

[old_picker]

Originally Posted by Joe M

Foreign Made...."knackered"....what a great word, I love it....

FYFI
the term "Kackered" refers back to the horse and cart days
horses that had outlived a usefull life or become injured were consigned to the Knackers yard where they were slaughtered and cut up for animal food and glue - often used in meat pies and french cooking - so if a horse was injured or too old to work he or she was "knackered"

[StratPlayer]

I finally got around to checking the power switch on the amp and found that it is indeed out.i put an aligator clip to jumper the switch and turned on and works fine.i ordered a similar (125volt 6 amp) switch from an internet site.

Do these switches provide some sort of amp protection when plugging in speaker cabs that may be harmful to the amp?

im so glad that i don't have to send the amp to a shop.this amp will probably used live gigging every weekend because of the convenient size and sound quality.me,the lead guitar player and our singer/bass player use his volkswagon bus for our big equipment (4x10 bass rig & 4X12 mesa boogie 2/90 rig) but it gets cold on the winter 1.5 hour road trip gig days.we want to be able to go with small gear and use a heated vehicle soon.

its the best amp i have ever had and ITS ALIVE
thanks all

[RussBert]

Don't be stupid, get the amp serviced before you gig with it. It's a valuable amp, with outstanding tone. Don't treat it like some pawn shop cheapo solid state amp!

[maestrovert]

+1 for having it serviced by a known good guitar amp tech(as opposed to a hack "tech")...

i've read that the 5F4 was Leo Fender's fave...

[SamBooka]

I am jealous. I have to say if you dont know what you are doing with the innards (and there is no shame in that.. I have never changed the oil in my car myself, not my forte)
take it to a tech. I know money is tight (at least in the US ) but 200$ for a good tech and you are probably good for another 10 years (if not more). The important part is that nothing signifigant (speaker or transformers) are blown. Keep the old switch (for what it is worth) and get that number singing again!! Bestoluck

Drew