Allright , Custom Vibroverb-who's tried it?

[JDO]

JDO - No offense to you, but I think you missed Pedalworld's comments such as:

Quote:
ARE YOU ON GLUE?

I guarantee that these don't sound as good as the black amps of the 60's.



That certainly isn't brimming with technical knowledge or credibility, and is just a troll comment...which I got sucked into admittedly.

But it's still offensive. And does it sound petty when I don't care for Tremo's rudeness when he calls Richie Fliegler "Fleecer"? - it doesn't matter who the guy works for or what he sells, it's uncalled for IMO.

nope, didn't miss the comment about glue. it's an opinion. you might take offence because you feel like it's directed at you, but it's just an opinion.

and about you're reaction to tremo - i get what you're saying. that didn't really enter my mind as i wrote my post. i honestly don't even know who fliegler is so i had no thoughts one way or the other. and it could just be me who is thinking this. and once again, what does that matter. i'm just some guy on a computer in NC that you've never met before. if you're cool with all your comments, go with them. i was just sharing an observation.

to be honest, i wish i had the money to spend on a new vibroverb. if i did, i probably would.

have a great day and take my comments with the smallest grain of rice that you can find.

[Pedalworld]

[BrianF]

Just wondering....

regarding the "best (Fender) amp in 35 years" comment...

Why wouldn't that be true? Or close to being true?

If it's not the best Fender amp in 35 years...which amp or amps are? Fender Custom Shop amps?

How does one define 'best' ?

Here's my stab at it....I'd say the Blackface amps (any year) or first year(s) Silverface amps were the 'best'. (let's not talk about Tweeds...or Browns...to keep things simple)

That was about 35 years ago...so what's wrong with the statement "best (Fender) amp in 35 years" ???? Seems accurate to me.

Now...whether or not the 64 Vibroverb is worth $2K??? Compared to contemporary boutique amps...maybe. Are they as well built as a small volume contemporary boutique amp?... probably not. I've seen the pics of the amp construction and it looks good but not great...but you can't deny the Fender name for re-sale compared to boutiques...so I guess it's priced about right.

[jumpnblues]

...IF I understand correctly, the new 64 Custom Vibroverb has nothing in common with the RI series of Fender amps and it is not, and is not advertised as a "reissue" amp. It is a modern version with a "customized circuit" designed by Cesar Diaz before his tragic death. It indeed has a point-to-point wired board with high quality components, a finger-jointed pine cab, and a 15" speaker that was specially designed by Eminence. Although I'm a die-hard Weber fan I've heard very good reports from credible players on this speaker and the amp too.
After reading all the posts on this thread so far, I'm not sure everyone understands this is indeed a true PTP, hand made amp and not a reissue. Now I've never heard one of these or played through one so I really don't know what they sound like. But if my understanding of the amp is accurate I'd sure like to try one out. If I'm wrong about this amp someone set me straight. :?

[Pedalworld]

[stantheman]

seriously LD how can you bein' a "silverface guy" compare that thing to one of your silverfaces? I can't see it...as for that putrid piece of poop I blew my own hard earned rubles on it is a lesson well learned and the lesson is: buy only from 1986 on back. I'd like everybody who lives close to a good size music store to
take part in a simple experiment. A-B the Vibroverb to the Delta Blues and tell the Forum honestly is this worth
even $1000.00 let alone $1800.00.
I still love Fender Amps the best (it's just the ones made
before 1987,that's all). As far as Richie goes, the guy's just workin' for the corporation, I'm sure he's thanked for
HIS opinion and that's about as far as it gets...they're making money, Richie's doing exactly what he got hired to do....Heck if I was makin' what Richie's pullin' down I'd be sayin' the stuff was great too....make mine Elmer's
big "This Old House" fan.

[Pedalworld]

[jumpnblues]

...what am I supposed to be seeing on your pic of the guts of the new Vibroverb? I would really like to know if this is a decent effort at making a good modern blackface Fender or not? Is it well built? Are the components good or not? :?

[buglecorps]

For it's intended audence...Which I don't think is the vintage guys, OR the working pro... I would say that this item is aimed square at the well heeled SRV fan, to put in his nice music room,and strum P&J through..using his SRV Strat.... 99% of these will NEVER see a stage...most will never move from that room..same for the AC-30 RI/HW, the various JTM45/ Bluesbreakers, and about 5 billion other products I can think of...including just about all of the products from "big name" instrument makers. Which is fine..alot of things are like that.. they walk the walk but they may not talk the talk. They DO look cool and probably make many people happy..most of the buyers will call it a bargan at 2k. I can't imagine any serious vintage guy giving this a second look...they are no more interested in a RI than a serious art collector is interested in a print..but print's make many people happy..the trouble starts when people buy the print and then become upset that it's not a painting...

[BrianF]

people are picking on this amp.....it doesn't make sense to me.

The way I see it...it's as good as the best silverface or blackface. What's wrong with that? It's what Fender tube amp users have wanted...IMHO many of these amps will see stages...and why not? Because they cost too much? That might be the only reason I can think of...but there are plenty of expensive amps that see the road...

BTW...I've jammed with Silverface (at a recent Clarence White Forum jam) and stood right next to his '64 Vibroverb for several hours...believe me it is one honking sweet amp...especially for a Tele!

[Tremo]

Jeez, SRV, SRV, SRV, SRV ad-nauseum. Most guys I know in the local blues scene are so over saturated on SRV, SRV clones and wannabees, SRV covers, etc, that they don't even listen to his stuff any more, and avoid playing it like the plague. It's a shame, but it's what happens when the scene gets saturated. With that said, a 64 Vibroverb, and clones thereof, sound great with single coil pickup guitars of you want a cleaner fat ballsy punchy tone. That assumes it has a decent speaker, and is electrically healthy. I'm certain that the new Fender offering probably sounds pretty good, but I have yet to hear one myself.

Consider...you can get a reissue Bassman, for what? A grand or so? And a Hoffman board costs what...$175 or so? So you can have a PTP wired Bassman clone for under $1500. Now you hear Fender factory sales and marketing hacks like Fliegler saying they's cost twice that. All I can say is someone is fulla bullcrap. So, how much would it cost to really do a PTP blackface? Doesn't Hoffman make an AB763 board? Seems like $3k for such an amp is simply lining the pockets of corporate execs, while they continue to churn out the cheap stuff for the masses. I suspect they could sell the thing for $2k and still make a profit.

[Glen W]

regarding the cost, a blackface amp cost between say around $250 to $350 back then. I can't remember exactly what I paid for my '65 VR new, but I think it fit in there somewhere.

Average weekly wages were somewhere around $100 to $150, give or take a few bucks. So, that $250 or so represented a good two weeks pay or more for most working folks (about 3 months at my after-school grocery job!).

Given the fact that about everything costs about ten times what costs were back then, and people make about ten times (for a given job) the pay that they made back then, I really don't find that a hand-made amp either made by Fender, or by a boutique outfit is way overpriced at $2K.

I know I'm rounding off figures a bit here, but i think I'm pretty close.

[stantheman]

I don't know about you....but I heard this same blarney
with the RI Vibrolux, RI Deluxe,RI Super,RI Bassman,
RI.....RI.....RI......best Fender Amp since the last marketing blitz .....only 2 kazillion rubles and the stuff that they do handwire is so heavy you'd need Triple H to lug it around for you....Instead of them whining that it costs too much the old way why don't they just can all
"their experts" (the ones that are "constantly innovating"
yeah those pencilnecks) and start making decent amps
again or should I say "decent originals"... bytheway wasn't Sgt Schultz a bigwig at Yamaha????? Those Yamahas were some groovy amps huh,huh? "and I hear Nothing!"

[Wally]

I enjoyed seeing the picture of the circuitry. Dig the printed 'map' on the board showing the placement of the components. It reminds me of this prototype '63 Pro that I have in which the 'map' is hand-drawn in yellow pencil. That Pro also has no stamped chassis number. Instead, in pencil there are the shakily written numbers and letter '000A'. It looks a lot like Mr. Fender's hand tome, but that is something we'll never know for sure.
As for this Custom Vibroverb, I would like to play on one just to hear for myself.
Ya'll have a good one, and keep up the poistive exchanges. 8)

[buglecorps]

The stuff they have sells..the average player at every level continues to buy it, most are quite happy with it..because it is fine for playing around the house,and on the ocassional gig which is what most folks do these days.(Very much like my Yamaha from the '70s..it was fine for what I did at the time) Very few large famous companies make products the "old way" for various reasons, including safety, and enviromental regs. but the biggest is they simply don't need to, they have the name..the masses go with it, and as long as the stuff works ok you are good to go. They sell a bunch of stuff..provide jobs, pay some taxes, and make the world go round for a bunch of people.
Expecting Fender, Marshall, Vox, Gibson ect. to engage in poor business practice by exactly recreating products, that were regular production for what were by comparison microscopic companies, using antiquated production methods, and materials, that will ALWAYS be comprimised to some degree due to the above regs. ; when a number of small competive concerns allready provide that service is to invite disapointment. Would it be nice? Of course..but I as a business owner sometimes find it difficult to provide service to small groups of eternaly disatisfied customers with unrelistic expectations often based on a lack of understanding of my position ..I prefer they take their business elsewhere..not due to spite, but because others may be better equipped to serve them....

[Bluedawg]

If I ever walk into a store and plug into a new Fender amp that sounds as good as my vintage ones,I'll buy it.
I'll give'em whatever they want for it.

I don't think it'll ever happen,but who knows??

I've owned numerous Fender products over the past 17 years and haven't kept any of the newer stuff.
The vintage stuff is great,but the newer stuff does not live up to the hype.

[Silverface]

and the stuff that they do handwire is so heavy you'd need Triple H to lug it around for you

stantheman - are you in the right thread? The '64 Vibroverb Custom isn't called a RI. It isn't a PCB like the RI's. It isn't *heavy*, having a solid-wood cab, unlike the pressboard RI's.

Have you played one? Have you spent *any* time on stage or in the studio with one?

Didn't think so. You simply are basing your opinion of an amp you've never seen or heard on your bad experience with a completely different amp.

Now there's a solid basis for a review. "Gee, I have a Martin Backpacker that kinda sucks...so boy, those D-45's are sure terrible, huh?"

Next.

[Silverface]

And a Hoffman board costs what...$175 or so? So you can have a PTP wired Bassman clone for under $1500. Now you hear Fender factory sales and marketing hacks like Fliegler saying they's cost twice that

Tremo - you simply have not a single clue what it takes to sell amps if you are an international business. There are reams of legal requirements that have to be met.

From a purely technical standpoint it'd be as easy as stuffing a board - but you can't sell that amp in European contries. From a legal and liability standpoint it's not that simple, and technical/physical changes have to be made beyond a relatively simple AB763 circuit. You're way out of your depth suggesting it's as easy as stuffing a tagboard and shipping an amp...

And back to the "hacks" and other comments....sheesh, John - did Richie not give you enough candy last Halloween?

[BrianF]

and skepticism on this amp could be due to

a) being previously disappointed by Fender (valid point) or

b) jealousy because they don't have one so to rationalize that (and feel better about it) you trash it...or

c) some combination of (a) and (b)

Go check one out for a real demo...or are y'all afriad of a GAS attack?? :D :P

[Dacious]

The SRRI has a birchply cabinet, not MDF/glueboard/pressboard whatever. Just thought it was worth mentioning. Fender apparently built pine cabinet prototypes and they were not picked as sounding as good as the ply. I wasn't there, just relating what I read.

Hoffman no longer sells any amps or boards - he just retails parts to build them. When asked why, he said it's too much trouble and you don't make any money doing it, and the customer is often not happy when it doesn't sound like he thinks it should - you go figure.

He also said he never liked building the AB763 board because the amp is an absolute mongrel to get right for layout (quiet), and as his version has changes (non-opto trem, extra filtering, grid stoppers) it is not an authentic 'Blackface' board - I bet it still sounds nice.

Someone asked a question on his forum about what brand caps to use the other day - he sells Spragues - and he said he never used anything but Xicons, and always used metal film resistors for reliability and low noise. Whenever he serviced a Fender amp he never used anything but Illinois caps.

He also makes the point that nothing - transformers, caps, resistors, tubes, speakers, is what it once was. Many of these things are better now than they ever were.

[Pedalworld]

[Tremo]

Gee silverface, sure seems to me that you are on Fender's payroll. Blah blah blah party line crap. Just another robot parroting the lines he's been taught.

The basic circuit is the basic circuit, regardless of where it's sold. After all, it's supposed to be a reissue, correct?

And speaking of Halloween, sounds like you and Richie are close buddies. What does he do for you? Huh? Smooch??

[BrianF]

I believe everyone agrees that old-used Silverfaces are great values...

Same goes for Black-face although they more expensive than Silverface (and hence slight less of a bargain)...

So do you expect an equal-quality amp ('64 Vibroverb) built in the USA today to cost as little as your 30 year old silverface? I don't think so.

The only way an amp of similar build quality could come close to the cost of a used Silverface is if it were built off-shore or in Mexico...which would be entirely possible....but not the issue here.

Still not sure what point you are trying make...

[willie]

Those nasty comments only serve to diminish the credibility of the poster on this and other topics....its certainly ok to like or not like a product, but it does get predictable when every product that Fender makes is subject to some kind of tongue lashing, along with an additional character asassination on Ritchie Fliegler(who has nothing to do with the R&D of these new products BTW), all authored by the same poster!....looks more like a personal vendetta than an honest appraisal of a product's per