1949 Fender Pro- $28500.00 on E-Bay

[teleon]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1949-FENDER-PRO-...QQcmdZViewItem

[Colt W. Knight]

Yowza!!! That amp seems to be too good to be true. Plus, look at that price tag. Very pretty though, I wonder what she sounds like?

[59TweedVibrolux]

Very Un-Fender looking Cab, particularly the Grill Cloth. Fender Amp Field Guide
states the Woodie Pro to have a Blue, Red or Gold Fabric with 3 Metal Bars
over the grill. NEVER seen Fender use musical notes on a grill cloth, nor ever
have a screwed on (screws exposed) Baffle like that.
Gerald Weber has his '47 Woodie Deluxe listed on ebay, this is also what the
Pro from that Era should look like.....very classy, this Pro Cab looks very NON
FENDER in its comparable design. Basically this is the '47, that one doesn't look
like something Leo would design.... Nice Maple though.

[teleamp]

That's a beautiful amp. I think the seller has a good reputaion in the music industry, if you read the description, it was a custom build for a friend of Leo's.

[WickedGTR]

Looks like tolex on the baffle?

Anyone know when tolex was first on the market?

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by WickedGTR

Looks like tolex on the baffle?

Anyone know when tolex was first on the market?

Spot On !!! I sent the listing to Gerald Weber, what Gerald doesn't
know about Fender amps isn't worth knowing. He replied stating the
following :-

" The amp looks bogus to me. For one thing all Woodies had the knobs on the
Back, not the Top. The Amp chassis is a Real Fender Amp, but it is a 1950
Pro Chassis and not a Woodie. The Cabinet is entirely Bogus. Woodies used
angle iron for the corners, this cabinet has wooden blocks. Black Tolex
was not even available in 1950.so the baffle board is also bogus. And
the Tolex is cut with pinking shears (the zig zag cut), something
never done on a Fender amp. The baffleboard was screwed in the front on Battenboards
something else never done on a Fender amp. And I have seen other Maple
Woodies, and never one in Birds Eye Maple. And where the roundover
is on the top cutout is bogus. Fender NEVER did it that way. Where the
cut out meets the backpanel should be a 90 degree angle instead of
rounded. Maybe the wife didn't know about her husband making a new
cabinet for it in the 60's, because that Cabinet could NOT have
come from Fender unless it was made by the Shipping Clerk "

Funny how the Seller didn't post my question, questioning the
Authenticity of the Amp / Cab ??.....yet did so for all those who
wrote saying how fabulous it was !!!

As Gerald said, Tolex wasn't even around at that time !!! The seller
states he has seen tons of vintage fenders in his 40 yrs, well you would
think he would know & Question that fact re the Tolex ?? Hmmmm
Buyer Beware

[charlie chitlin]

Free shipping, though.

[WickedGTR]

Buyer Beware

At the price he's asking, I doubt there is much danger of finding a buyer.

[WickedGTR]

Hmm... Tolex was registered as a brand name in 1945 (accdg to the wiki)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolex

Also- notice how all of the screws are slot head except....the tolex baffle.

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by WickedGTR

At the price he's asking, I doubt there is much danger of finding a buyer.

You never know these days...

[59TweedVibrolux]

Fender was uniform with Screws, Phillips Head. Having Slot Head & Phillips
Head on the front baffle is unheard of for them. I doubt that Fender would
design and build a custom one off cab. Even the Forrest White amps
were standard design. And that was for Forrest White. They would never
deviate from the standard design of the period, for a one off that looked
so un-Fender like.

It looks very Valco ish to me (the Cab). IMHO Leo would never design or
make a cab that looked like that one. Its not like anything Fender ever did,
cab wise.

Leo never did cabs with Round Exposed Speaker Holes like this. To me this is
just a 1950 Pro put into a Custom Built (Non Fender) cab at a later date
by the then owner. Its a big call to say its the " Missing Link " Woodie Amp,
and therefor worth $28.500 I'm sure any expert on / from Fender
would verify its not a Fender Cab.

Man I could Buy 2 x Original '59 Bassmans for that

But yeah....the Free Shipping really makes it Tempting. Hmmm be like
Buying that Prized 1956 Strat only to find when you took it apart nothing
matches date wise.

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by 59TweedVibrolux

Fender was uniform with Screws, Phillips Head. Having Slot Head & Phillips
Head on the front baffle is unheard of for them. I doubt that Fender would
design and build a custom one off cab. Even the Forrest White amps
were standard design. And that was for Forrest White. They would never
deviate from the standard design of the period, for a one off that looked
so un-Fender like.

It looks very Valco ish to me (the Cab). IMHO Leo would never design or
make a cab that looked like that one. Its not like anything Fender ever did,
cab wise.

Leo never did cabs with Round Exposed Speaker Holes like this. To me this is
just a 1950 Pro put into a Custom Built (Non Fender) cab at a later date
by the then owner. Its a big call to say its the " Missing Link " Woodie Amp,
and therefor worth $28.500 I'm sure any expert on / from Fender
would verify its not a Fender Cab.

Man I could Buy 2 x Original '59 Bassmans for that

But yeah....the Free Shipping really makes it Tempting. Hmmm be like
Buying that Prized 1956 Strat only to find when you took it apart nothing
matches date wise.

I agree. That cab is just all wrong, and the baffle is atrocious. Phillips screws and black tolex? That gill cloth is very Valco.

I may be wrong, but I'd bet it's just a 1950 TV Front Pro that someone built that cab for later on. Maybe even many years ago the cab was built, but I can't believe it was original.

[sjhusting]

It's butt-jointed, too.

It just smells wrong.

steven

[Big John]

Thats just such a shame, if it is a fake (i have no claim) someone has spent a lot of time creating what is a beautiful looking amp, yes, i'd want to get rid of the Philips screws but i think it looks super.

Sorry, but you'd have to lose at least one of those noughts too, if he had just said F*nder amp in pretty cab it would have been worth it.
He also has a '53 tweed Deluxe for a little over $1000 which seems like the bargain of the century in comparison.

[Little Nip]

Even in a closet for fifty years maple would oxidize. I would expect the wood to be much browner based on old maple I've seen.

[JimiBryant]

hey, he's got a '66 neck plate as well!!

[Big John]

Originally Posted by JimiBryant

hey, he's got a '66 neck plate as well!!

Ha ha ha ha ha !!, you mean you haven't, ?

[Guitarslinger1]

I just asked the seller for a photo of the tube chart. If it's really a Fender cab, it should have a tube chart in it, right?

[Guitarslinger1]

...and, I'm wondering if the maple is actually finished in poly. Thoughts?

[beach bob]

Originally Posted by Big John

He also has a '53 tweed Deluxe for a little over $1000 which seems like the bargain of the century in comparison.

Well as they say, it ain't over till it's over; the auction for that one has 4 days to go. But yeah; I'm watching that one too ... I would expect in the end it will go for 2x of where it is now ...

As for the '49 Pro, that ad read like one from flip-it-fast Sure looks & reads like fraud to me.

[59TweedVibrolux]

I emailed the Seller via ebay telling him of the discrepancies put forward in
the reply from Gerald Weber to the Authenticity of this amp being a Woodie
and the Missing Link as he says. In his " Historical Comment" paragraph
he makes some bold statements about this amp. Without expert
verification of this, I feel he cannot make such open and shut comments
that this is indeed an 100% Original Missing Link Pro Amp

His Reply........ ha ha.... NO REPLY as expected

Tom Wheeler in his excellent book, The Soul of Tone - 60 yrs of Fender
talks about the Woodies. Provides photo's of them. The Woodie Cab for
a Pro was not as wide as this sellers cab, is taller, as per the later Tweed
Pro's. It ONLY ever came in a Hardwood Cab with the choice of three grill
cloth colors - RED - BLUE - CREAM/GOLD with the Metal Strips on
the front. The internal construction of the Sellers " Missing Link" cab is a
million miles away from the way Fender built there Cabs in this era. Even
the Grill Cloth is different. That is the Cloth used by VALCO of that
period. I have several early - mid 50s Supro's all with that weave on the
cloth, and the same screen printing albeit SUPRO instead of the Musical
Notes. Fender NEVER used that type of Cloth.

Without concrete factual evidence this seller cannot claim this amp to be
anything other than a Fender Pro, 1950. It would have had a TV Front Cab
Even the earlier Woodies had the Fender Logo on them, prior to them
the very first amps had the K&F Logos for Doc Kaufman & Leo Fender
** Why would this Cab have no - FENDER - Logo ???

No doubt this is an early Pro, first production run with the new Chassis
design, but a " Missing Link" worth $28,500 I would assume that
the original owner didn't like the TV Cab or some other reason, and had
a cabinet maker make a custom cab for it. If Fender made a custom Cab
for this gentleman, they still would have made the cab using the standard
Fender construction techniques, and materials of the period.

That Baffle and the way the Tolex and Grill cloth are affixed is pure
Valco in style, definitely NOT Fender. Fender weren't even using
Tolex for another Ten (10) years !!! You mean they went out and bought
(if even avail ? ) a piece of Tolex just for this " one off " custom build, a
material they themselves wouldn't even use for another TEN (10)
years !!! Yeah Right , pull the other one

Pic - Front - (Princeton) Middle - (Deluxe) Rear - (Pro)

[Guitarslinger1]

Yeah, without the original sales receipt, and photos of the buyer with Leo Fender and the amp altogether, it is nothing more than a 1950 Pro chassis and speaker in a homemade cabinet.

Not only does the cab look homemade, it has no logo and no tube chart.

It's not the "woodie missing link", it's a 1950 Pro missing its cabinet.

I hope no fool bids or offers anything for it.

[59TweedVibrolux]

Originally Posted by Guitarslinger1

Yeah, without the original sales receipt, and photos of the buyer with Leo Fender and the amp altogether, it is nothing more than a 1950 Pro chassis and speaker in a homemade cabinet.

Not only does the cab look homemade, it has no logo and no tube chart.

It's not the "woodie missing link", it's a 1950 Pro missing its cabinet.

I hope no fool bids or offers anything for it.

Exactly !!!

Seller says " its not a woody but a custom built pro after the woodies ended.
You can ask the original owner its whole history, after you
buy it from us . ha ha ha yeah sure..... He says all the screws
are Virgin. Errr have a look at the Two Slot Heads holding the
Chassis to the Top of the Cab. I'd say that's wear which is
consistent with having been unsrewed / screwed a number
of times???. So we are to beleive Fender built a custom cab
completely unlike anything they ever made, using a covering
on the Baffle they wouldn't use for another 10 yrs, with a
Grill Cloth they had never used prior or after, and with a Screen
Printed Design on it, again something they had never ever
done prior or after ???...... I just saw the photo of the Chassis
faceplate of a '52 / '53 Pro sold by member Twangbanger....
it is identical to that of the " Missing Link " Amp. His came
in a Wide Panel Tweed Cab.!!!!!

[Guitarslinger1]

I asked him if it had a tube chart. His response was "yes".

Anyone see a tube chart inside that cab anywhere? LOL!

[59TweedVibrolux]

LOL At least he answered you. Wont answer my questions about the
questionable authenticity of it. Cause it aint. Its a sham. This guy is
featured in Vintage Guitar Mag , writing a page on vintage amps. The
Chassis is nothing more than a 1950 Pro. The Cab has been made sometime
later, and certainly not by Fender. Convenient how the owners widow can't
find any bill of sale. With no other documentation stating this amp was
custom made for ???, the seller has no right to make such over the top
statements about it. I could say I have a Tweed Bassman that was once
owned by Eddie Cochran !!! Without documented proof you just can't make
such claims. And yes, why not show the Tube Chart ? And why hasn't the
Cab a Fender Logo as per the older Woodies etc, or plate stating " Custom
Built For ......?

The Chassis and Faceplate / Controls inc the unusual On/Off switch is 100%
identical to an amp listed here by member Twangbanger. It was a Wide Panel
Tweed Pro 1952/3 Transitional ( TV - Wide Panel Cab) If this seller is as he
claims an Expert on these Fender Amps, he knows this, and by him not
replying and answering my questions, he obviously has something to hide.

We are safe, at $28,500 who could / would pay that. But I'd hate to see
some poor unsuspecting Doctor / Lawyer / Stock Broker get sucked in and
and lose that amount Everyone should go out and make a Custom
Cab and retrofit their old Pro chassis and claim they found the "Holy Grail"
sure beats getting $2000 - 2500 for their stock TV Tweed Pro.

Below is the Pro sold by Twangbanger.Stock '52 / 53 Transitional Pro
If you click on photo and look carefully, this chassis / Faceplate is
Identical to the so called " Missing Link " but in its period correct Tweed Cab
And Period Correct Fender Phillips Head Screws holding the chassis to
the top of the cab. Funny how the other has slot Head ???

[J-man]

Real or fake - that is a thing of beauty, and I bet it sounds great.

[beach bob]

OK so when it comes to Ebay, I'm a looky lou (I don't deal there myself)... & I admit not being up on some of the minutiae of ebay listings.

Why has this not been reported as a fraudulent listing?? 59Tweed, I appreciate your making inquiries to the seller, and him giving him a chance to respond. This thread has been pretty darn educational for me, but at this point who knows how many other educated bidders have had their questions ignored by this guy?

just askin' ...

[59TweedVibrolux]

Ebay has changed the format of reporting Fake or Questionable listings.

You can now only enter the listing / Item Number, with no facility (as in the
past) to actually explain WHY you are reporting the item. In the past you
could actually type an explanation with the Item Number and send to them.
Now you must click on reason for reporting item, such as "Misleading
Description", Type in the Item Number, and send. If you try to type a reason
in the same box as the Item Number it won't permit you to send.

I reported (Item # ) to ebay, but could not explain why. They would have
simply read the description, asked the seller, looked at his feedback and
accepted his explanation. Because nothing has happened so far.

Ludicrous situation. In the past I have seen people steal photo's of a '59
Tweed Deluxe, post a fake listing. Having recognized the photos from the
Original Listing I was able to report it and explain why, Ebay immediately
pulled the Auction, avoiding an unsuspecting buyer from losing $3 - 4,000
as the bogus seller required payment via Money Order only. This happened
a couple of times. Then you could also contact the High Bidder direct and
make them aware of the situation. Now all bidders are Anon.


This is a substantial amount of money. The seller should provide evidence
to back up his claims regarding the unique nature of this particular amp.
Its called Provenance. The seller is making very bold claims about
this amp without so much as one shred of physical proof. Purely the word
of the orig owners widow as to how they obtained the amp. If you took this
amp to George Gruhn or Norm Harris and gave them this story, they would
require proof positive before offering it for sale as the " Missing Link" at
$28,500. Otherwise anyone could claim anything about the history of their
Old Guitar / Amp . In this case the Seller should be saying, " this is what
the owners widow has told me, I cannot confirm or deny these claims. I
believe this to be a missing link amp, but I make no guarantees in that regard.
Buyers must make up their own mind as to the authenticity of the claims."
This guy is saying....This IS the Most Valuable Fender Amp Ever ! The TRUE
Missing Link etc etc etc. If proved not to be true, a Seller down here is
liable in Court to be sued for False & Misleading Advertising. He needs to
have proof beyond doubt as to the authenticity before making such bold
claims to possible buyers.

[charlie chitlin]

But.........FREE SHIPPING!

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by charlie chitlin

But.........FREE SHIPPING!

Well now, you have a point there.

In that case, I may have to bid on it...

[teleamp]

Originally Posted by 59TweedVibrolux

...This is a substantial amount of money. The seller should provide evidence
to back up his claims regarding the unique nature of this particular amp.
Its called Provenance. The seller is making very bold claims about
this amp without so much as one shred of physical proof. Purely the word
of the orig owners widow as to how they obtained the amp....

+1 on the Provenance, without it, no deal.

I agree that the cabinet was built by someone other than Fender.

While that amp probably had a cool past, I doubt it's the "Holy Grail".

[Big John]

Originally Posted by 59TweedVibrolux

..............................But I'd hate to see some poor unsuspecting Doctor / Lawyer / Stock Broker get sucked in and
and lose that amount .

Yeah, wouldn't we all ? ...............

[ibobunot]

Originally Posted by Big John

Yeah, wouldn't we all ? ...............

We would...

[J-man]

Originally Posted by ibobunot

We would...

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Twangbanger]

Hey 59TweedVibrolux,
Yeah the screws on my amp were original. Chassis mount screws were slotted regular and the handle bracket screws were Phillips. I saw this amp as well, Black Tolex on a tweed amp? I don't think so. Leo used white and brown tolex or vinyl and a few exceptions with different coverings. I'd love to see the pot codes and chassis a lil more.

[Twangbanger]

Mine went for 2K on ebay, I wouldn't give more than that for this amp.

[Twangbanger]

Guess we all can't read.........
This is in the description.....

We purchased this amplifier from the family of the original owner last week! The original owner and his wife drove from Palm Springs, CA and purchased it directly from Leo Fender in 1950. Upon returning home with the amp, his wife hand-sewed the black velvet cover that it still has to this day. He used the amp only a number of times with his country-swing band. It was explained that he used it to amplify his Martin D-18 which was fitted for a pickup. He quickly replaced this 1950 Fender Pro with an unknown higher-powered amp. It was at this time that he literally put the amp in the closet, where it remained for almost 50 years! We purchased it directly from the widow and she claims to still have the receipt for the amp, although she was not able to find it before we picked it up

[charlie chitlin]

I don't see how this changes anything.

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by Twangbanger

Guess we all can't read.........
This is in the description.....

I read all of that.

What's your point?

[Guitarslinger1]

Guess what I have for sale? For $3,000,000, I have Elvis' narrow panel Bandmaster that he's pictured with in the book 'The Soul of Tone'.

Elvis and some space aliens landed their ship in my backyard, and sold the amp to me for $50, then after a few beers they took off.

I have the receipt in Elvis' handwriting, and photos of me standing with Elvis, the space aliens, and the amp, in front of their ship.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the receipt or the photos...